Home Mesh Wi-Fi Coming This Summer From eero

Samir · Feb 21, 2015

stevech said:
Cisco acquired Meraki 3 years ago, right?
Not always good though... Cisco has acquired many and they were stirred into and lost in the corporate soup. Like Clearwire.

They did and unfortunately they got rid of the entry level equipment that made Meraki what it was. I think that's why Ubiquiti is finding so much success with their APs as they've filled the gap.

sfx2000 said:
The Meraki stuff is there still, but Ci$co bumped up the price of admission...

And by bump it's over 10x their original APs.

I think Meraki was already on their way to do this, but I think the Cisco acquisiton helped.

weaves · Feb 22, 2015

digitalfreak said:
I wonder if you can use one of the ethernet ports instead of wireless for your uplink.

Yes - you can use the gigabit ports as a WAN link or LAN link!

weaves · Feb 22, 2015

mlg321 said:
Can additional Eero's be used as access point mode via Ethernet or are additional Eero's strictly mesh capable?

How does this differ to open-mesh or a AirPort Express?

Yes - you can use an eero node as a wired or mesh AP.

Nnyan · Jun 25, 2015

brossyg said:
Can someone please explain why wireless "mesh" in a large house would be better than simply adding an AP with the same SSID/Password as the wireless router?

I do this and it works perfectly, is simple and inexpensive. I placed the AP where the router's wireless signal was the weakest. The mobile device switches seamlessly between the AP and the router.

Thanks.

You are lucky then. I've deployed a number of multiple (consumer) wifi networks with 2+ AP's and no matter how I did it (original firmware, DD-WRT, Tomato, etc...) I have always run into issues with clients being too "sticky" and not moving to another (stronger AP). Android devices are the worst but not by far. There are apps that I've used that manage the transition but I've not found one that is perfect and they all have side effects. I do have a friend that has an Apple only network and that DOES seem to work better (in the time I was there). I'm so sick and tired of it (between my wife, two little girls and myself we have a ton of wireless devices) I'm finally going to just bite the bullet and go get three Ubiquiti's for my home.

stevech · Jun 25, 2015

A mesh makes sense (to me) only if you have a $$$ dual-radio product where ALL clients use 2.4GHz and 5GHz is used for a (proprietary) mesh network among APs.
This is what has been done for 10+ years by Tropos and Cisco, mainly for enterprise and metro WiFi.

Impractical for home use.

Nullity · Jun 25, 2015

I have been seeing a lot of mesh/wireless stuff in the academic journal. The funding seems to keep flowing. Seems to focus on sensor arrays (dunno if that is generic or what) and automobile networks, with every step being looked at for power efficiency improvements.

The complexity of solving how to just route the packets without wasting too much energy while simultaneously keeping the network from creating the biggerest DDoS is well beyond me.

Wireless mesh is nothing yet...

sfx2000 · Jun 26, 2015

When researching Mesh, don't forget to include the IETF working groups - MANET is charged with this one...

https://tools.ietf.org/wg/manet/

sfx

stevech · Jun 26, 2015

The US DoD has some good meshing for all-nodes-are-movers. But $$$.
And big batteries.
I'm one of many that worked on that.

Commercial broadband meshing is as above, Tropos, Cisco, Aruba, and some lesser-capables like Firetide.
Zensys Z-Wave (rebranded) is probably the most widely used commercial telemetry mesh (narrowband).

sfx2000 · Jun 28, 2015

stevech said:
The US DoD has some good meshing for all-nodes-are-movers. But $$$.
And big batteries.
I'm one of many that worked on that.

Commercial broadband meshing is as above, Tropos, Cisco, Aruba, and some lesser-capables like Firetide.
Zensys Z-Wave (rebranded) is probably the most widely used commercial telemetry mesh (narrowband).

Let me share a story about MESH networking...

I was involved in a Startup - first as the "Engineer", then as EVP, and finally as interim CTO - we shopped around our concepts to companies like Google, Intel, Apple, Qualcomm Strategic Ventures, and multiple DoD agencies and companies in that realm.. self-organizing/self-healing networks for sensor and other data - so an early, what we call now, Internet of Things play...

We got some 1st round funding, mostly from folks over on Sand Hill Rd in the "Valley" - enough that we could turn simulations into real-world exploration and testing... To this end, we rented a quarter section from a farmer in the mid-west - this is 160 acres - or a quarter square mile... folks had done this in warehouses and close big-box stores, but we were the largest deployment in free-space.

Put in a solar powered MESH station every 25 meters on a x*y grid, so that's a lot of MESH points - and there we experimented with our solution vs. AODV and OLSR, along with multipath... as we felt that with a CAN, we could do better... we developed our own firmware that we could peek/poke and monitor/log traffic on any node... fun project, learned a lot..

In the end, what we found is that MESH tends to collapse under signalling - management over data - the MESH needs to be aware of the other nodes in the mesh, and needs to be aware of least cost routing into and inside the mesh...

And that's just node to node - client traffic basically crushed the network...

thiggins · Jun 29, 2015

Thanks for the story, sfx. Were the radios G or N? I always felt G and N repeaters/extenders couldn't deliver enough usable throughput due to retransmission overhead. But AC extenders actually can produce usable throughput. Maybe AC will help with mesh?

sfx2000 · Jun 29, 2015

thiggins said:
Thanks for the story, sfx. Were the radios G or N? I always felt G and N repeaters/extenders couldn't deliver enough usable throughput due to retransmission overhead. But AC extenders actually can produce usable throughput. Maybe AC will help with mesh?

It was 11n using 2.4GHz - MESH's get to a point where one just runs out of time - it's not a channel bandwidth issue, but in the time domain with all of the management messages..

A handful of nodes in a mesh won't break anything, but one does eventually hit the wall.

sfx2000 · Sep 5, 2015

thiggins said:
If they pull it off, eero will be better because it is simpler to set up and use. This system is aimed at people who just want to plug something in and have it work with minimum hassle. APs also normally require Ethernet to connect them together.

You are lucky your client switches between the two APs with no problem. Not all devices do.

Nullity: TDLS isn't mesh. It's more like a modern version of Ad-Hoc networks.

Saw this post on the main site...

Something tells me this ain't gonna happen... save your money. If they ship, watch the reviews and make your own decisions...

eero's is ramping up beta testing of its mesh Wi-Fi system.

An email blast to eero customers today said it is still in beta testing and contained no ship date update.

Specifics noted were:

Systems are installed in 50 employees' homes

Field beta is being expanded to an additional 200 homes

Hardware design is "locked"

eero added "It’s now all about fine-tuning our software and app while ramping manufacturing".

The rest of the email contained claims of Wi-Fi speed improvement of 300 to 400% "relative to testers' old equipment. There was also a nod to Google's OnHub announcement with some competitive positioning of eero's multi access point solution vs. Google and all other single router solutions.

Pricing via Amazon is still at $199 for a 1-pack and $499 for a 3-pack, with availability still showing "This item will be released on December 1, 2015".

stevech · Sep 5, 2015

WiFi-like mesh networking - priced and featured for the home/SOHO market... Is that a marketplace voice that is is microcscopic?

My experience in mesh networks is extensive. I feel that meshing can be sensible for (a) metro-WiFi (mesh nodes on street light poles), but Earthink proved that business model can't work; or (b) military where all nodes are mobile and there is zero fixed infrastructure.

TheLostSwede · Nov 5, 2015

Coincidence that this was just announced as eero hits another delay? https://getluma.com/

kilgannon · Nov 5, 2015

TheLostSwede said:
Coincidence that this was just announced as eero hits another delay? https://getluma.com/

That's very interesting. It looks like Eero just secured $40mil in funding. Maybe Luma will beat them to the market.

flamaest · Nov 5, 2015

Aren't these things backed by AMAZON? Wouldn't Amazon just give you your money back if they go under?

remixedcat · Nov 7, 2015

Still this "mesh" networking is never as good as APs hard wired into a switch.

stevech · Nov 7, 2015

remixedcat said:
Still this "mesh" networking is never as good as APs hard wired into a switch.

Indeed.
Wireless alone is technology-hard vs. wired. Add meshing and it's 10x harder and less reliable.
Much better to use IP over power wiring or better yet, MoCA.

thiggins · Nov 7, 2015

flamaest said:
Aren't these things backed by AMAZON? Wouldn't Amazon just give you your money back if they go under?

eero is not backed by Amazon. It's available through Amazon's Launchpad program. But it's not clear what the return policy is.

eero's site has no return policy posted. They also took down the pre-order page. Amazon's page is still up.

Darcy · Dec 31, 2015

Cant wait for the new mesh router reviews when they come out. Held off getting an ASUS 3100 and waiting to see what to get.

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