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Router advice - up to 100 simultaneous users

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Chumash

New Around Here
Hi everyone, I’m hoping for some advice on how to improve the Wi-Fi in our business. I’m not a techie so this is a bit above my head. Any help is appreciated. Thanks a lot!

-

Area: 9,500 sq ft 1-storey building with lots of walls and rooms
Speed: 10 Mbps (our country has poor internet speeds)
Set-up: Four 300 Mbps N routers wall-mounted and connected through ethernet cables to modem/router provided by ISP. They are on 24/7
Problems encountered:
  • Difficulty in connecting to the network; usually solved by turning on/off the modem/router every couple of hours or so
  • Modem/router only allows 30 simultaneous users
  • Poor signal inside the rooms
My questions are:
  • What devices do we need to allow up to 100 simultaneous users? These must be on 24/7. Preferably an affordable solution (many routers mentioned on this site are not available in our country)
  • How do we improve the signal inside the rooms?
  • How do we limit speed per user? Most just check email and Facebook
  • Someone suggested upgrading the cables to Cat 6. Is this necessary, considering the maximum speed provided by the ISP is only 10 Mbps?
 
Last edited:
You need to give more details of the equipment.

But no matter what equipment you have, no one will have a great experience if 150 users connect to a 10Mbps ISP.

At the minimum, you need 4 additional routers (not in AP mode). All switches and router ports need to be GB capable. CAT6 not required if you have CAT5e and runs shorter than 100M between each switch / port. More than likely, the ISP supplied router also needs to be replaced with a current model.

Each router can support about 30 to 50 clients (at some level). I'm assuming your users don't roam in this building. If you can give passwords to restrict each area to a max number of users, this may work.

No consumer router can handle 150 simultaneous users. At least not reliably (as you have seen) and not at anything resembling real time speeds.

The number one thing to consider is the ISP connection. Can you bring in 2 or more ISP's? Can you pay for an increase in speed of your current ISP? Is a faster ISP solution available?

0.067Mpbs per user is in the 'kill me now' territory. That is assuming it is shared evenly and, that will never happen, ever.

Until the ISP issue and the number of routers (each with their own DHCP) is resolved, the rest of your questions will remain theoretical.
 
Thanks a lot for your response!

You need to give more details of the equipment.
The routers are consumer TP-LINK 300 Mbps Wireless N routers with 10/100 Mbps ports.

At the minimum, you need 4 additional routers (not in AP mode).
AP means access point, right? So like in range extender mode?

All switches and router ports need to be GB capable.
Sorry, I don't know what GB capable means. Do you mean something like a Gigabit router?

The number one thing to consider is the ISP connection. Can you bring in 2 or more ISP's? Can you pay for an increase in speed of your current ISP? Is a faster ISP solution available?
10 Mbps is the highest plan being offered by the ISP in our area. We'll see if we can work something out with them. The only other ISP here has worse speeds than our current one.

0.067Mpbs per user is in the 'kill me now' territory.
I guess it's a consolation that people here are used to slow speeds in general...
 
Thanks a lot for your response!


The routers are consumer TP-LINK 300 Mbps Wireless N routers with 10/100 Mbps ports.


AP means access point, right? So like in range extender mode?


Sorry, I don't know what GB capable means. Do you mean something like a Gigabit router?


10 Mbps is the highest plan being offered by the ISP in our area. We'll see if we can work something out with them. The only other ISP here has worse speeds than our current one.


I guess it's a consolation that people here are used to slow speeds in general...


Replace those 10/100 routers now. AP is access point, correct. You do not want to use this mode as that means a single router will have to do all the DHCP / routing and that will keep crashing your network with any consumer router. GB=Gigabit, so a router with 10/100/1000Mbps ports for all connections (WAN and LAN ports).

If this speed is the highest the users are expecting, then simply moving to a 1GBe network vs. the order of magnitude slower devices you're currently using may be enough.


One way I would wire everything is like so:

ISP modem to MAIN Router (RT-AC68U for example) let's call this R0.

MAIN Router's LAN ports connected to 4 additional RT-AC68U's WAN ports (R1-R4).

Each of the R1-R4 routers' LAN ports are connected to switches as required to connect all wired devices.


Try to group wired devices together by how much they interact with each other, time-wise and traffic-wise (for example; a main computer with a NAS that constantly interacts). Try to put the least throughput intensive devices like casual users or simple printers on the router that usually has the most wireless users. Also try to group devices that most people use on a separate router / switch combination (this gives the device the most balanced access by all).

With the wireless setup, I would have separate ssids for each router and band.

I would also have the closest routers to each other as far apart as possible with regards to the channels they use. So, for example, R1 and R3 might be the closest and they would be using Channel 1 and Channel 11 on the 2.4GHz band. This will not be perfect with 5 wireless routers, but some planning here will reap great rewards on the usability of the network as a whole.

Each router can be given 30 or so IP addresses in the DHCP range and will not allow more connections to allow it to crash.

For example:
  • R0 would be 192.168.33.1 and handle the 192.168.33.51 to 33.80 scope
  • R1 would be 192.168.33.2 and handle the 192.168.33.81 to 33.110 scope
  • R2 would be 192.168.33.3 and handle the 192.168.33.111 to 33.140 scope
  • R3 would be 192.168.33.4 and handle the 192.168.33.141 to 33.170 scope
  • R4 would be 192.168.33.5 and handle the 192.168.33.171 to 33.200 scope

Try to locate all the routers as centrally to their respective areas as possible and at least 10' above the earth / ground (not just the floor).

Of course all connections are 1GBe capable in the above scenario to at least the most throughput intensive devices and all routers and switches too.

With the above changes, get ready for a whole new 'networking' world. :)
 
In your situation I think you should seriously consider employing a comprehensive QoS configuration.

The following link is a detailed explanation of how and why QoS is important. The author of the post uses standard consumer-grade wireless routers to supply WiFi to large residential blocks. (600-1200 residents)
http://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?threads/qos-tutorial.68795/

That forum has information that is perhaps more suited to your situation.
 
Area: 9,500 sq ft 1-storey building with lots of walls and rooms
Speed: 10 Mbps (our country has poor internet speeds)
Set-up: Four 300 Mbps N routers wall-mounted and connected through ethernet cables to modem/router provided by ISP. They are on 24/7
Problems encountered:
  • Difficulty in connecting to the network; usually solved by turning on/off the modem/router every couple of hours or so
  • Modem/router only allows 30 simultaneous users
  • Poor signal inside the rooms
My questions are:
  • What devices do we need to allow up to 100 simultaneous users? These must be on 24/7. Preferably an affordable solution (many routers mentioned on this site are not available in our country)
  • How do we improve the signal inside the rooms?
  • How do we limit speed per user? Most just check email and Facebook
  • Someone suggested upgrading the cables to Cat 6. Is this necessary, considering the maximum speed provided by the ISP is only 10 Mbps?

Based on requirements:

1( 10 meg pipe is more than enough - depends on the traffic, but if most of your work is inside your LAN/Intranet, 10Mbps is good enough

2) DHCP - this is likely one of your problem - most SOHO gateways top out at 50 users max, and that's on the high end - keep in mind if you have 100 users, likely you'll have two screens per user (laptop and smartphone) - so you're looking at a small business class DHCP host...

3) NAT/Firewall - again, SOHO class gear isn't going to cut it with this number of users, as each external connection will use up memory to maintain NAT tables.

4) Wireless - you're a little bit light on AP's - as a general rule, but this depends on a few factors (type of traffic for example, VoIP vs. Web vs. Email vs. Streams), but generally figure about 20 devices per AP - so you might want to add some more bandwidth, or migrate some over to ethernet on the wire...

For items 2 and 3 above - going with a turn-key business class router/firewall is a good path, as you'll get the vendor support and all that good stuff - if one insists on rolling their own solution - there are a few packages out there that you can use on a PC - MonoWall is one, another is pfSense - these packages do have some advantage - free is one :)

I would check and see if you have a local networking consultant, as if this is a business, then it's worthwhile to invest some time/money into it.

sfx
 
Thanks a lot for your response!

Each of the R1-R4 routers' LAN ports are connected to switches as required to connect all wired devices.
We don't have wired devices, so I guess we don't need switches? The Wi-Fi is for our customers only. Most of them are on cheap Android phones, with the occasional netbook user here and there.

Each router can be given 30 or so IP addresses in the DHCP range and will not allow more connections to allow it to crash.
Thanks for the detailed example! I see now this is our problem, since currently only the main router acts as the DHCP server.

With the above changes, get ready for a whole new 'networking' world. :)
Thanks again for your help!
 
The following link is a detailed explanation of how and why QoS is important. The author of the post uses standard consumer-grade wireless routers to supply WiFi to large residential blocks. (600-1200 residents)
http://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?threads/qos-tutorial.68795/
Thanks a lot for the link! Most of our customers are on cheap Android phones and usually just access email and Facebook, so not much torrenting going on, but it's helpful for the occasional netbook user that comes in.
 
Thanks a lot for your response!

I would check and see if you have a local networking consultant, as if this is a business, then it's worthwhile to invest some time/money into it.
This thread has been more helpful than any of the "network tech experts" in our area we've asked. Thanks all!
 
Thanks a lot for your response!


We don't have wired devices, so I guess we don't need switches? The Wi-Fi is for our customers only. Most of them are on cheap Android phones, with the occasional netbook user here and there.


Thanks for the detailed example! I see now this is our problem, since currently only the main router acts as the DHCP server.


Thanks again for your help!


With no dedicated wired clients, you don't need additional switches, correct.

Note that each R1-R4 router also has 4 available ports already, so until you use / fill them up, you won't need switches for a while. I would recommend to use wired ports for printers, scanners, any computer that is usually sharing files of any kind or a NAS.

I would also recommend that you use the Guest Network features of the RT-AC68U's and disable intranet access to your internal network. The devices connected to the Guest network will only have Internet access and won't have access to printers, etc. or other Guest users.

Your goal here now is to physically locate the routers in the best locations possible to cover their respective areas. Keep them secure (hide them if you can) and away from easy access by the general public. After the locations have been selected, draw a rough 3D map of the 5 routers and start selecting channels as noted in my previous post, based on their proximity to the other routers and the channels that they are on. It will be easier to have two maps for this; one for each band. Tip: use a pencil. :)


Hope this gives the information you need.
 
Thanks a lot for your response!


This thread has been more helpful than any of the "network tech experts" in our area we've asked. Thanks all!

Send me/us some resumes' - we'll help you pick a good prospect.
Or we'll help you review a consultant's no-cost proposal.
Some of us could do it for you, but probably not in the right locale (I'm in So. Ca).
 
Hi everyone, I’m hoping for some advice on how to improve the Wi-Fi in our business. I’m not a techie so this is a bit above my head. Any help is appreciated. Thanks a lot!


-

Area: 9,500 sq ft 1-storey building with lots of walls and rooms
Speed: 10 Mbps (our country has poor internet speeds)
Set-up: Four 300 Mbps N routers wall-mounted and connected through ethernet cables to modem/router provided by ISP. They are on 24/7
Problems encountered:
  • Difficulty in connecting to the network; usually solved by turning on/off the modem/router every couple of hours or so
  • Modem/router only allows 30 simultaneous users
  • Poor signal inside the rooms
My questions are:
  • What devices do we need to allow up to 100 simultaneous users? These must be on 24/7. Preferably an affordable solution (many routers mentioned on this site are not available in our country)
  • How do we improve the signal inside the rooms?
  • How do we limit speed per user? Most just check email and Facebook
  • Someone suggested upgrading the cables to Cat 6. Is this necessary, considering the maximum speed provided by the ISP is only 10 Mbps?

What country is this in?
I can think of 2 or 3 very reliable, simple and scalable ways of doing this but the hardware has to be available.
 
In our office, an AC66U handles 50 simultaneous connected clients just fine, a mix of laptops and smartphones, daily. The clients use both 2,4 and 5GHz bands.
 

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