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Recommendations for discrete Gw/Fw etc. Router

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jalyst

Senior Member
Originally I planned to just use the wireless router I get, but with the topology I now have in mind, I think it'll make more sense to have a dedicated router/gw device. One that plugs into a switch(1), or has an excellent switch integrated.

I'd prefer something that's relatively easily serviceable, has tonnes of overhead for my "pipe" (Telstra Bigpond Cable, usually tops out at ~105mbps(2)), but not too pricey either. I want all the typical "bell & whistles" that are important for these sort of devices; granular control/monitoring of all traffic, firewall, etc etc.

I'd also prefer hw+sw, which makes it easy to fail-over to a USB 4G/LTE MODEM whenever my cable service goes down, or perhaps it has a 4G/LTE MODEM integrated? Although I suspect just a USB port would be better, as something with it integrated would probably be considerably more expensive!

I've been meaning to play with Pfsense & similar *BSD & Linux distros for years. But I'm not sure if I should go this route, or the more fully self contained "appliance" route. I like the idea of buying a "complete product" & then if there's issues, having at least some degree of support.

I'm by no means a technical neophyte, but I don't want to be spending huge amts of time learning huge amts of this stuff, or troubleshooting issues regularly. Especially for this sort of device, I plan to have much more "fun" on the NAS side of things though ;-P

This device as I see it should be mostly "set & forget", but it'd still be VERY configurable/feature-packed, & easy to troubleshoot if instability creeps in. It would also be rock-solid stable, if I choose not to change much, & instead keep things very simple/bare-bones.

I see a lot contradiction in what I'm asking for, but I'm hoping you get what I'm saying, & have -mostly- been able to find that "happy medium" with your set-up? My post's probably still a bit too vague, so if there's areas you want me to flesh out in more detail before making any suggestions, please let me know.

Thank-you.
(1) about 4 port, maybe 6 just to be safe
(2) in a few yrs the NBN will be knocking on my door & that'll see a huge jump
 
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Hi jalyst. For 3G/4G failover -- CradlePoint, Peplink, DrayTek, ZyXel, or even Cisco RV series. For something less turnkey, MikroTik. On the consumer side, you might be able to coax decent failover performance out of a Netgear or Asus product, either on stock or third-party firmware, but I wouldn't be much of an authority there, as I've pretty much moved away from that class of stuff when reliability is of the utmost importance. Best of luck! :)
 
J, I would base it on this: http://www.mini-box.com/Morex-557-Jetway-JNF9HQL-525-Intel-Dual-Atom-60w ($383 with 4GB of RAM and an SSD) and Pfsense. That MB has four Gbe ports. I've been using an older version of the hardware now for a 7 yrs with zero failures. Failover redundancy , Snort, Proxy, AV, traffic reporting, web site/bandwidth reports, OpenVPN (remote access for iphone, MAC, PC) and access control have all only got better since my orginal posts in 2008. We're still using the same hardware, with zero issues.

2 sites with dual WAN have been the standard setup since day 1.

PFsense loaded from a USB stick is very fast and simple to load. In terms of disaster recovery, the ability to back up your config and quickly restore the OS from USB works very well. I've done this a few times when doing an OS upgrade from a fresh install.
 
Hi jalyst. For 3G/4G failover -- CradlePoint, Peplink, DrayTek, ZyXel, or even Cisco RV series. For something less turnkey, MikroTik. On the consumer side, you might be able to coax decent failover performance out of a Netgear or Asus product, either on stock or third-party firmware, but I wouldn't be much of an authority there, as I've pretty much moved away from that class of stuff when reliability is of the utmost importance. Best of luck! :)

Can anyone help me narrow down that list of ODM's, that's a lot of narrowing down!?!
What's "turnkey"? I'm not interested in Asus, Netgear, or similar...
They're likely to be contenders when I'm looking at WRT/AP's, which'll be after I've finished this project.

J, I would base it on this: http://www.mini-box.com/Morex-557-Jetway-JNF9HQL-525-Intel-Dual-Atom-60w ($383 with 4GB of RAM and an SSD) and Pfsense.

Is it easy implement 4G/LTE fail-over? (in the event our DOCSIS 3.x service goes down)
This is looking like the most interesting package all-up to me...

Also, what do you think of pfSense's products here: https://www.pfsense.org/products/
Good value or overpriced, better to go DIY IYO, or is there some real value added for what they're offering?
 
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Currently looking at these four:

$899
https://store.pfsense.org/SG8860
$699
https://store.pfsense.org/SG4860
$499
https://store.pfsense.org/SG2440
$449
https://store.pfsense.org/VK-T40E

I'd rather not spend much more than $450, but I might be prepared to stretch as high as $900.
All of the prices don't include postage to Australia, no idea what that is yet.

Basic differences outlined here:
https://www.pfsense.org/products/

I'd really love to get this, but it's just too damn pricey!
https://store.pfsense.org/c2758
Plus it's overkill, when I upgrade to a far beefier RU NAS, I'll experiment with using it as my gw device too.

Is it possible IYE to build something just as capable hardware-wise as the 8860 or C2758, but for far less?

Currently also looking at...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPNsense
https://opnsense.org/about/about-opnsense/
Looks like an intriguing fork of pfSense.
I'm tempted by the ready built "appliances" pfSense is offering.
But I'm not entirely sure the value proposition is there.
 
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Currently looking at these four:

$899
https://store.pfsense.org/SG8860
$699
https://store.pfsense.org/SG4860
$499
https://store.pfsense.org/SG2440
$449
https://store.pfsense.org/VK-T40E

I'd rather not spend much more than $450, but I might be prepared to stretch as high as $900.
All of the prices don't include postage to Australia, no idea what that is yet.

Basic differences outlined here:
https://www.pfsense.org/products/

I'd really love to get this, but it's just too damn pricey!
https://store.pfsense.org/c2758
Plus it's overkill, when I upgrade to a far beefier RU NAS, I'll experiment with using it as my gw device too.

Is it possible IYE to build something just as capable hardware-wise as the 8860 or C2758, but for far less?

Currently also looking at...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPNsense
https://opnsense.org/about/about-opnsense/
Looks like an intriguing fork of pfSense.
I'm tempted by the ready built "appliances" pfSense is offering.
But I'm not entirely sure the value proposition is there.

The c2758 is just the following;
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G3ED7D4/?tag=snbforums-20
plus some SO-DIMM ECC RAM and a SATA SSD
 
Yep, I've since learned that, but thanks!
Didn't know it was at Amazon, alas, no shippy to Oz (australia) >.>

In that case literally any intel cpu made after 2011, as long as it is not Atom based on a decent motherboard plus a PCI-E Intel based NIC will do the trick.
Clock speed is generally more important than cores for something like PFsense.

Personally I prefer the single CPU intel Xeon's just for the ECC RAM but for a home that is wayyy overkill.

EDIT:
DO NOT SKIMP ON THE NIC!!!
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000JLF4FG/?tag=snbforums-20
That is the kind of card you want to buy.
Server grade. not too new (PFsense is always outdated when it comes to drivers), and multiple ports.
 
Oh still proly getting it, it's likely to be readily avail here in the local market, just haven't searched yet.
Although I prolly could've gotten it slightly cheaper via amazon, have to W&S, but thanks for those other pointers, noted.
 
That looks a bit like what my NAS build would be like... :)

Yes, the Supermicro box I posted is the same one as in the pfSense store. The prices I gave are approximate for (2) 4GB ECC DDR3 SODIMMs & an 80GB Intel DC S3500 SSD.

Thanks, main list of parts to be assessed & then bought, is below:

(1)

Any special reason why one might prefer the SSD-DC-S3500 series over anything else at roughly the same price-point ATM?
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/solid-state-drives/solid-state-drives-dc-s3500-series.html
Deals with WA etc better perhaps?
The two models I list below are more consumer geared IIRC, so perhaps the fw/controller is more optimised for diff. sort of I/O.

A)
Evo range still looks pretty decent, but no idea how all these SSD's compare lately:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OBRE5UE/?tag=snbforums-20

B)
I may have access to an ExtremeII SSD (240GB) that's barely been used:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7006/sandisk-extreme-ii-review-480gb
Doesn't seem to be on Amazon any more, replaced by 480GB revision:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00COF7E3K/?tag=snbforums-20
AFAICT, the ExtremeII range has been superseded by the ExtremePro range:
http://www.sandisk.com/products/ssd/sata/

(2)

Also RAM; apart from ECC, the right mem. bandwidth, & whether or not to get 4 or 8GB modules.
Any other characteristics & makes/models I should look out for, or does one not need to be too picky?
This looks okay, but I probably only need 4GB modules (x2), at least for now, not sure:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CUYOGRM/?tag=snbforums-20

(3)

Looking at the no's, the 5018A-FTN4's 200w PSU is plenty decent, but is there better after-market ones worthwhile considering?
(power-efficiency & 24/7 consumption are also really important for this build)

Nvm, after having read through this article (esp. the conclusion), + ~several posts from here onwards;
It def. sounds good enough, I doubt the small improvements gained with an alt. PSU, would be worth the extra expense/time?!


(4)

I may also need a few more Gbit ports, 10Gbe I think is overkill from this device to my switch.
So any recommendations there are greatly appreciated too,
@Cloud200 you've already suggested one model.

Actually probably not needed, 5018A-FTN4 already has 4x Gbit ports...
If need more, will just buy a dedicated 4-8port Gbit+ eth switch, or use the PCIE 2.0 x8 slot for something like this.


Any other final components you think may be of use, please advise...

Thanks again.


Peripheral Components
:
(i.e. non-core/critical at this time)

Might get one of these, too...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005FYNSUA/?tag=snbforums-20
http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.13/.f
 
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How does the SSD I've already got (mentioned in my prior post) stack-up against the Intel 730, it should be plenty fine, no?

I was thinking more along the lines of 2x 8gb, perhaps using that make/model I already listed, good RAM you reckon?
Reviews of it are solid....
(yet to check SuperMicro's site to confirm compatibility, but Amazon reviews of this bare-bones 1U, & the MB, confirm it's okay)

I know 16GB is kinda overkill, but heck, this whole build already is very much overkill for it's original purpose! ;-P
Figured at least with that much...
I should have lotsa mem. overhead*, if I end-up playing heaps with vsphere (or similar), rather than using it purely as an appliance focused on pfSense.

*& I'll still have 2x slots left for a total of 32GB (C2758 is capable of 64GB), assuming I get another 2x 8GB instead of 4x 16GB (16GB SO-DIMM ECC sticks are overpriced & rare, & that prolly won't change soon!)

*EDIT*

Actually I just noticed that Kingston model isn't being sold in pairs, damn, another ~80USD added to my total cost!
I may yet go back to 2x 4GB, will review total cost later... >.>
 
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theres no review on it at 240gb so to make it a fair comparison I showed you the 480 vs the 480
 
Just moving this out of the new "Ethernet Cabling/Switch" thread.

Lastly, any thoughts/ideas on this point that you missed?
I guess it depends on if I could be using that sole PCIe slot for something that's more important.
I don't need a RAID controller, as this build won't be my primary NAS or Local-host/Server.
I'm not sure what else one might want to put in that PCIe slot, other than an Ethernet card???
I wouldn't want to put a Graphics or Sound card in there etc. etc...
 
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Just moving this out of the new "Ethernet Cabling/Switch" thread.

Lastly, any thoughts/ideas on this point that you missed?
You can leave that slot unpopulated.
If you ever switch to a provider that offers a direct FTTH, you can get a NIC with an SFP port instead of a fiber to copper converter.
 
That's a great idea, we were going to get FTTH as part of the NBN, but a change of gov't resulted in the best we can hope for being FTTN, so the last few hundred meters will be copper.

The whole thing's being rolled out glacially, so despite being in one of the innermost suburbs in the 3rd largest city, I don't expect to have have access for at least another 2yrs, happy to be wrong though. :-/

I'll address your 2 other posts tomorrow, 220am here, plus they seem to have disappeared anyway, perhaps due to some overzealous filtering!

GN
 

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