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Recommendation for new purchase of the very best performance router.

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ejp

Occasional Visitor
Hello SNB community. As I'm not a networking guy, I wanted to reach out to the most knowledgeable networking community I've ever come across about purchasing a new, future proof, high performance router for my new home.

First, my home always has 4-5 people playing games and streaming in it with some being hard connected, but most being wirelessly connected. In short, I need the very best performance router available for wireless connectivity and speed. The router I've really been looking at is the: ASUS RT-AC3200 Tri-Band Wireless Gigabit Router due to the very nice traffic monitoring software that comes with it, and without purchasing this router, I'm unsure of how to monitor network traffic (in terms of total bandwidth used by each user on the network) without this software.

Would those who are more knowledgeable than myself be so kind as to assist me with recommendations for the very best performance routers they know of? Thanks so much in advanced for any assistance you can provide.
 
Hi ejp. The 87U and AC3200 do have decent traffic monitoring built-in, but as most reviews indicate, they are somewhat flaky still. I'd probably recommend an AC68U instead, or even two of them (the second one set as an additional access point) considering the price difference.

Additionally, I know you said you're "not a networking guy", but if you wanted to take some time and learn a little, an even better option would be a quality wired gigabit router, like a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite, combined with an AC1900 all-in-one router set as an access point, like an R7000 or AC68U. You get all the benefits of a legit wired router, plus the wireless performance of good AC hardware, without having to burden the all-in-one with routing responsibilities (which isn't their strong-suit anyways). Probably overkill for your needs, but just an idea -- one that I've seen solve many issues for users here.

Hope some of that helps. :)
 
You can also try mikrotik too if you are willing to learn, you can see what its like at demo.mt.lv . The R7000 and AC68U are good wireless performers and because of the space and distance in 5Ghz you can have 10 5Ghz wifi APs without any issue. I can tell you from experience that the AC3200 is still flaky and the AC68U works better for wireless. I only recently learnt that only enterprise class routers like ubiquiti, mikrotik, juniper and cisco (above $1000) have decent or better QoS while all other routers only let you configure only 1 aspect of QoS such as either priority or bandwidth control. Using a dedicated wired router lets you have a lot of control even if it means losing those nice graphs and pie charts. with 5 people streaming at the same time and gaming it sounds like you need to have a lot of internet bandwidth.

When it comes to 5Ghz performance you might want to get inexpensive APs and place them around if you have a big house because 5Ghz has poor penetration so it doesnt do well when you have many rooms compared to 2.4Ghz. Dont assume those nice numbers on the wireless speed of a router means you will get to use that bandwidth since wireless AC drops off from its highest bandwidth to lowest just after a few meters away from the AP and you are likely to only see 50% of the rated bandwidth on your computer to be used . This applies to all wireless protocols too but the minimum for wireless AC is higher than the rest. I only see wifi as a convenience and its fast enough to use internet with but not fast enough to utilise LAN based services or resources but i dont think you would be set up your own services like file syncs, computational clusters and the like. I really dont like when they say AC1900 when actually the maximum wifi bandwidth it can use is 1300Mb/s (AC) + 300Mb/s (2.4 Ghz N) which is 1600Mb/s instead of adding up all the protocols in which you cant use at the same time to expect more bandwidth. You might also end up with your wifi devices defaulting to 2.4Ghz because the signal for N gives more bandwidth than AC after some meters away.

I also wouldnt rely on adaptive QoS that the AC87 and AC3200 have. Its better to configure a manual QoS but consumer routers dont let you do it without hardware acceleration which significantly limits internet throughput to below 500Mb/s for broadcom dualcore ARM A9 based routers.
 
Hi ejp. The 87U and AC3200 do have decent traffic monitoring built-in, but as most reviews indicate, they are somewhat flaky still. I'd probably recommend an AC68U instead, or even two of them (the second one set as an additional access point) considering the price difference.

Additionally, I know you said you're "not a networking guy", but if you wanted to take some time and learn a little, an even better option would be a quality wired gigabit router, like a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite, combined with an AC1900 all-in-one router set as an access point, like an R7000 or AC68U. You get all the benefits of a legit wired router, plus the wireless performance of good AC hardware, without having to burden the all-in-one with routing responsibilities (which isn't their strong-suit anyways). Probably overkill for your needs, but just an idea -- one that I've seen solve many issues for users here.

Hope some of that helps. :)

I actually have two netgear nhawks lying around from a friend who couldn't use them, and I'd be more then willing to spend $300 on a quality setup. I've checked out the Ubiquiti EdgeRouter Lite and it looks very nice. Would anyone be willing to explain what I would need, and how I would setup, the two Nhawk routers + the Ubiquiti EdgeRouter for the best possible network quality? Also, would you be so kind as to provide a link to the very best/newest model of Ubiquity EdgeRouter that would be best for my setup to ensure that I don't purchase the wrong one ><?

Part of the problem at my new place is that it's in a rural area, and the DSL speed is awful (~6.17Mbps, 17ms), so I want to do everything I can to get every little bit of speed/efficiency out of the net connection available.
 
You could purchase 2 mikrotik routerboards and place one at your ISP and use packet compression. Might be worth asking if they support mikrotik compatible packet compression which can help increase the amount of bandwidth you have. Also mikrotik routerboards can connect to multiple PPP servers since it has a PPP scanner so if the 6Mb/s you get isnt because of your line between your house and the exchange than you would certainly benefit more from using mikrotik.

When it comes to networking mikrotik actually does better than ubiquiti and have more features and a documented wiki with examples.
 
You could purchase 2 mikrotik routerboards and place one at your ISP and use packet compression. Might be worth asking if they support mikrotik compatible packet compression which can help increase the amount of bandwidth you have. Also mikrotik routerboards can connect to multiple PPP servers since it has a PPP scanner so if the 6Mb/s you get isnt because of your line between your house and the exchange than you would certainly benefit more from using mikrotik.

When it comes to networking mikrotik actually does better than ubiquiti and have more features and a documented wiki with examples.

Do you by chance know how I would go about installing one of the router boards at the ISP; would they be installing it? If it might be a substantial increase in performance I'll call the ISP ASAP and ask them if they support packet compression and how to go about installing one on their end.
 
call them up and ask. Try to find out if the low performance is on between your house and the exchange and try to use better DSL cables and filters. If you are going to use mikrotik to connect to multiple PPP servers simultaneously than you wont need to worry if they support mikrotik packet compression though it doesnt hurt to ask. The PPP protocol itself also allows compression to a certain extent and see if using a lower or higher MTU helps.

I was on VDSL once and i used mikrotik to connect to multiple PPP servers from my ISP with some PPP packet compression which helped a bit because i wasnt getting full bandwidth.

Your ISP may have mikrotik, or something compatible or you could configure one and just send it to them to connect. Some ISPs use mikrotik on the edge of their networks and some establishments use it in their core networks.
 
Ah, now that you mention it maybe I should get new filters throughout the house and a new DSL modem. Do you have any recommendations for the very best DSL modem and filters around so I can upgrade those? I'm using the old filters that were given to me during installation ><.
 
I've worked for a half dozen ISPs and none of them would have allowed colocating of customer equipment in a common area.
 
Unfortunately i dont know the best modems. I know there is an asus AC68 with integrated modem but i would not count on its modem quality. Zyxel has some promising equipment that supports VDSL. Im not the best at models to choose from. I suggest just replacing your filters with new ones and see if it improves your connection. You can try ask your ISP to test your modem if it is giving poor sync speeds too. Its not always the modem's fault.
 
Your best bet is just to ask your ISP if you have the latest and greatest modem they have to offer. It's possible they'd be willing to swap out your unit.
 
Newest top drawer Asus or maybe 2 or 3 recent model Asus units. I went through D-Link & Netgear and although the D-Link wasn't bad but the firmware never got updated.

Asus? Better product all together. Mucho updates, and no problems worth mentioning.

Sent from my ME173X using Tapatalk
 
ejp - The R7000's should be totally usable. On the overall setup, I'm happy to offer guidance once we determine what you actually need.

For starters, your DSL will be a significant bottleneck, so proper Quality-of-Service on the router will be pretty much mandatory. Second, you want to get wired connections to as many endpoints as possible. Do you have ethernet in the house, and if so, are there enough jacks? If not, and you're willing to run more wire/jacks, a good electrician/IT tech shouldn't be more than 200-300 hundred USD to do a few drops. If wiring is a no-go, assuming your home's electrical circuitry is up to snuff, I would look into powerline adapters (specifically AV2-MIMO units like the Netgear 1200) -- that should ensure at least a couple hundred Mb/s worth of speed to the wired endpoints -- better for backups, LAN-based streaming, etc.

As for a router, while UBNT and/or Mikrotik do sound superior in conversation, and most users can get going just fine with the default config or start-up wizards, it's the additional tweaking much beyond that and actually understanding what each setting does (especially with Mikrotik) that can be quite the burden on users who aren't familiar with the platform. So while, yes, they are theoretically the superior solution in many ways to the consumer stuff, I wouldn't out-and-out recommend them in every case, perhaps not even in yours. Sorry if I jumped the gun a bit there.

I would first try one R7000 as your router and primary access point (AP), then wire in the second R7000 as an AP only (routing, dhcp, firewall, etc. all turned off), perhaps somewhere on the other side of the house, and see how that works out. If the routing on the main R7000 falls short, then perhaps it's time for an ERL, and both R7000's as access points only.
 
ejp - The R7000's should be totally usable. On the overall setup, I'm happy to offer guidance once we determine what you actually need.

For starters, your DSL will be a significant bottleneck, so proper Quality-of-Service on the router will be pretty much mandatory. Second, you want to get wired connections to as many endpoints as possible. Do you have ethernet in the house, and if so, are there enough jacks? If not, and you're willing to run more wire/jacks, a good electrician/IT tech shouldn't be more than 200-300 hundred USD to do a few drops. If wiring is a no-go, assuming your home's electrical circuitry is up to snuff, I would look into powerline adapters (specifically AV2-MIMO units like the Netgear 1200) -- that should ensure at least a couple hundred Mb/s worth of speed to the wired endpoints -- better for backups, LAN-based streaming, etc.

As for a router, while UBNT and/or Mikrotik do sound superior in conversation, and most users can get going just fine with the default config or start-up wizards, it's the additional tweaking much beyond that and actually understanding what each setting does (especially with Mikrotik) that can be quite the burden on users who aren't familiar with the platform. So while, yes, they are theoretically the superior solution in many ways to the consumer stuff, I wouldn't out-and-out recommend them in every case, perhaps not even in yours. Sorry if I jumped the gun a bit there.

I would first try one R7000 as your router and primary access point (AP), then wire in the second R7000 as an AP only (routing, dhcp, firewall, etc. all turned off), perhaps somewhere on the other side of the house, and see how that works out. If the routing on the main R7000 falls short, then perhaps it's time for an ERL, and both R7000's as access points only.


Thank you so much for such a thoughtful and well written response, as I can assure you that I appreciate you taking the time.

So, the current network setup I have is just 1 basic Nhawk netgear setup with the computers closest to it hardlined, and all other mobile devices like (ipads, phones, and other tablets) using wireless. Unfortunately, any time I enable Qos for improved streaming (upload and download) the games I play online come to a crawl and become unplayable, so I've had more success just having the feature disabled. I'm unsure if I'm setting the QoS settings wrong (although they're very straight forward) or if my terrible 5-6Mbps net is just to slow to use the feature properly.

I have a second spare netgear Nhawk that I can use as (and please correct me if I'm improperly using the term here) a bridge or repeater on the other side of the house for an amplified signal. Also, because I wont be purchasing the new router, buying a new router/modem wouldnt bother me. The main reason me considering purchasing a new high end Asus router would be for the traffic monitoring feature (to see which individuals in my house are using the most bandwidth), which I have been unable to find a router that does the equivalent.

In short, Im really just looking for the best possible solution for squeezing every last bit of performance I can from my awfully slow internet connection (my new home is in a rural area so no ISP choices ><).
 
Hi ejp - The QoS issues you're running into may be related to the R7000's stock firmware's inability to properly balance priorities. If you're comfortable flashing third-party firmware on the unit, here's an interesting post on the DD-WRT forums regarding Fq_CoDel-based QoS on the R7000. It seems to improve endpoint responsiveness, with proper understanding/configuration of the settings, of course.

For traffic monitoring, AdvancedTomato, as just one example, has excellent per-IP taffic logging and visualizations. So does v 1.7 of the ERL firmware. So do the Mikrotik units. So does anything that can graph to CactiEZ... So there are many ways to skin the cat for traffic monitoring, Asus being only one of them, and in actuality not so advanced when compared to many others... So perhaps look into all the available firmware alternatives for the R7000 before going out and just dropping another $200 trying to address those couple points.

On using a second R7000 as another access point, the ideal option would be to wire it into the network, instead of using it as a repeater or wireless client bridge. The repeater will only be able to offer a maximum speed of the best signal it can grab itself, and furthermore must cut that same throughput total in half, as the same radio must transmit and receive the wifi signal simultaneously. Add to that the latency and jitter one picks up from the repeater-to-AP transmissions, and it can make messy quality for those wifi endpoints. A wireless bridge is usable for times when all that will be connected are wired endpoints, but in order to connect any wifi endpoints from there, an additional AP broadcast will be needed, and the problem there is that those IP-MAC bindings will not persist across the bridge to the originating access point. For more on that, here's a Mikrotik document explaining those limitations. If redistributing the signal via wireless is an absolute must, you can try WDS (primary R7000 set as the WDS Base Station, secondary as WDS Access Point) but only with 2 identical firmware revisions on each R7000... and your results still may be flaky.
 
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Two R700o's should be able to handle your networking needs. I have moved away from the stock firmware, on the 7000, and am currently using Xvortex / Merlin port on both 7000's.. It has an ASUS look and feel, and has more configurable options, especially for WIFI. I run two 7000's at different locations. One as a router, connected to a bridged modem, and another as an AP connected to a Ubiquity ERPoe-5 router. I cannot comment on the QoS configuration, as I do not have a requirement for it.

Xvortex / Merlin link is here: http://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?threads/asuswrt-merlin-on-netgear-r7000.71108/
 
What do you guys think of using my current Nhawk installed on one end of my house, and on the other end of my house use a ubiquiti ap like the one Linus tech tips reviewed? My house is all 1 story, and on one end of the house wired connection is required because its a gaming room, but on the other end and in every other room in the house, highest performing wireless connectivity is required for tablets, laptops, etc.
 
How much would it cost? I kind of like @netwrks suggestion of just using two R7000's and making one an AP.
 
What do you guys think of using my current Nhawk installed on one end of my house, and on the other end of my house use a ubiquiti ap like the one Linus tech tips reviewed? My house is all 1 story, and on one end of the house wired connection is required because its a gaming room, but on the other end and in every other room in the house, highest performing wireless connectivity is required for tablets, laptops, etc.
Researched Ubiquiti's customer support?
 
If you have problematic ADSL lines (though I used to dream of 6Mps when I was on ADSL) then I would recommend Billion routers as they allow the ADSL lines' signal to noise to be tweaked easily to maximise through put. Google "Billion SNR" and you should be able to find instructions.

I used to use two Billion 7800N routers as ADSL modems behind a load balancing router (Zeroshell running on a Atom mini-PC) in efforts to maximise speed. Even though the load balancing was only round robin it worked very well for day to day internet use and helped me push the Billions SNR thresholds to the absolute limit without suffering any perceived reduction in reliability.

pfsense will also load balance nicely across multiple WANs, in fact its probably better in this than Zeroshell though I found Zeroshell easier to get up and running.

I'd also endorse Ubiquiti wireless access points (though their customer support is supposedly atrocious, I've never needed it). I have three that work as champs in a zero hand-off configuration.
 

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