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MOCA network died (Actiontec ECB2500c pair)

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peripatetic

Occasional Visitor
I have tried lurking and searching to no avail. I'm simply looking for some troubleshooting advice on my MOCA network.

The main cable line of the house I live in - myself in the basement, my landlord above - includes Internet, cable and cable phone line. I installed a MOCA network using once Actiontec ECB2500 adapter with ethernet line from the TWC cable modem and Linksys wifi router of my landlord (who lives above me), and connected to the (functioning) coax cable line in my apartment. For several weeks, the network worked perfectly, as advertised, and I was able to separate myself from the too-far and overburdened wifi network.

At some point, the TWC line down the street went down when a gas line exploded in the intersection a block away. It took a few days for TWC to get the Internet working again. After that came back on, however, my landlord indicated his phone line wasn't working; he had TWC come and check the problem; they fixed it, including doing something near the cable POE in the back of the house, and since that time, the MOCA network has been down.

I know that it's a bad idea to run a MOCA line using bad splitters. Forgive my diagram, but this is the best I can come up with at the moment. The current splits look like this:


house coax line --------------2-split-------2-split----------->phone
| \
| modem====(ethernet)======>ECB2500c
|<-----(moca line)--< -----------------------------<--/


I took photos of the splitters a little while ago and will post them, but for now I can explain: they are both labeled "DigiMax." One indicates 5 - 1000MHz. The other says something slightly different. But I _did_ have a working MOCA network using these splitters. I've checked and re-checked the integrity of the actual coax lines, and all lines are tightly fastened. The modem-connected/MOCA-origin adapter has lights indicating it's got power and Ethernet. The end adapter indicates only power right now; if I plug in the ethernet cable, it indicates it's got ethernet connection.

I have not been able to identify the outside POE point for the cable running into the house - there are masses and masses of cables going to various spots, and some into my own unit (bottom of the brownstone).

My basic question is this: What is the most efficient way for me to troubleshoot this issue? From everything I've read and researched, I realize that the ideal would be I have the following:

(1) Swap out both 2-way splitters for one 1-3 splitter, rated up to 2 GHz;
(2) Install a POE filter.

As far as I have been able to determine, there is one additional coax output line in the house, which feeds directly to the TV of my landlord. I think it's pretty tightly arranged and wired, and I don't know if I can access that output to check if the MOCA signal is feeding there, though it's in the same room as the modem.

Other than swapping out the splitters for a single splitter, is there anything else I can check as the culprit for the lost network? Is there anything the cable guy might have done when repairing the phone cable line that might have disrupted the MOCA network? Is there an easy way on visual inspection to identify a TWC house cable drop? Since I did have a stable MOCA network before, I'd like to be able to get it back up and running. My wife depends on an easily available Internet connection for her business, and she needs to be able to transfer large, multimedia files easily. The Wifi network just isn't cutting it. I've tried to sell my landlord on wiring in CAT 5e cable, but that would involve two stories of wiring through his house, and 'unenthusiastic' grossly understates his response to that proposal. He also has zero interest in upgrading his obviously sub-optimal Wifi router (which I just figured out was likely infected with a worm that had slowed traffic to a crawl). MOCA seems like my best option with what I've got.

Thank you in advance for any helpful feedback anyone here might provide.
 
I'd guess that the phone guy jiggled a coax cable that has a flaky F connector installation (or very old, corroded).

Easiest thing: Buy a length of RG6 coax (pre-terminated) or beg one from TWC. Use it laying on the floor temporarily to troubleshoot - replacing suspect bad coax in the walls with this new temporary one.

Also.. I don't let TWC provide WiFi. I have a cable modem for DOCSIS 3 and a separate phone modem so that the phone is independent of any internet goings-on. I have my own WiFi router and I manage that, change it every 2 years or so as WiFi evolves.

Look at your cable modem signal levels and we can tell you if they're OK. Do with HTTP://192.168.100.1 on most all cable modems. Make note of upstream and downstream signal levels.
 
First step is to connect both MOCA adapters with a piece of coax and test that adapters are functional.

Then buy an inexpensive cable tester/ identifier to trace your cable from your apartment to where you are connecting the other adapter to the network.

Once you have done this you can start looking at splitters.
 
Hi,

Thanks to both of you for your responses. I'm going to see if I can run up and test the MOCA adapters with a separate piece of coax I have lying around - I actually have a lot. It's a little bit awkward, though, because the modems and router are in my landlord's bedroom, and while he doesn't mind my checking on things, it's still just -- his (and his wife's) bedroom.

In the meantime, however, I can clarify:

(a) Landlord does have a separate wifi router (not provided by TWC). It's really not up to snuff, as he has his own house with 4 people - two teenagers - who use the wifi signal frequently, and myself and my wife in the unit below. They have a Linksys E1200 (version 1), which I found was actually infected with a worm and just fixed. I believe each teenager is using a different Roku box (different wifi standards) and the wifi router only runs at 2.4 GHz. But his modem is a non-TWC Motorola Docsis modem; recently purchased. Everyone keeps complaining about the slow Internet, but their response is to just keep calling TWC, which is a limited solution, as this site makes clear to those of us investigating these things.

(b) I got the cable modem readings and took screenshots. I'm attaching now:

Screen Shot 2015-07-05 at 9.17.20 PM.png

Screen Shot 2015-07-05 at 9.18.43 PM.png
 
Cable modem signals... I hope I read the graphic correctly - quite fuzzy even with browser zoomed.

Downstream at -6dBmV is low. Should be closer to zero or +3 or so. It'll do though.

Upstream is +50. That's not very good. Should be +40's. It indicates there is a more than normal losses between the cable modem and the egress (demarcation point). It'll work. But as conditions change, the head-end may ask for more than +50 and most modems max out at +55 or so.

So if possible, rearrange the wiring so there are fewer splits ahead of the modem.

If that can't be done.. get a bi-directional cable amplifier. That's one that has gain in BOTH downstream and ALSO amplifies the upstream (a.k.a. "return" amp).
Put that amp in as the first device on the coax entering your home.
 
Sorry, I realized I should just share the shots through upload and links. Here are the two images:

(1) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B197pEHU1H8RSk9SSnVVMVViems/view?usp=sharing

(2) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B197pEHU1H8RLS1XLXlHWkxSMm8/view?usp=sharing

Please confirm if these images are more legible.

I also apologize - the diagram I tried to outline above came out wonky without the carriage returns the same, but in sum, there is a 1 to 2 splitter that leads into another 1 to 2 splitter. I have the MOCA output from the Actiontec router feeding into the first splitter, but I really don't know if those splitters are okay.

I don't know if I'll be able to get to it tomorrow, but I'll try and just hook up the other actiontec directly to the coax coming out of the one actiontec, so I can at least confirm the two communicate properly on a short cable run and without the splitter.

*If the cable has somehow gone bad, then this will have to be a repair for TWC. It runs down two stories in a brick home. It has also just struck me that the wall jack in our own apt. may have gone bad. I can check that using the Cable TV box provided by our landlord (we don't have a TV, so I never use it). If it turns out the cable TV connection isn't working, then perhaps fixing the actual coax cable will solve the MOCA problem, and TWC will have to come out here for that.

Any ideas on how to identify the POE cable drop outside of the house? As I said, there are a lot of cables, but they do run somewhere right outside of my unit and the deck just above mine, so I can take a look. Everything I've read indicates it's a good idea to use a POE filter for a MOCA network.

Thanks again for the advice and feedback.
 
TWC often charges (a lot) for repair of "customer inside wiring".
Or they decline and suggest you find your own cable puller.
 
And question about what you wrote earlier:

Cable modem signals... I hope I read the graphic correctly - quite fuzzy even with browser zoomed.
...

Upstream is +50. That's not very good. Should be +40's. It indicates there is a more than normal losses between the cable modem and the egress (demarcation point). It'll work. But as conditions change, the head-end may ask for more than +50 and most modems max out at +55 or so.

So if possible, rearrange the wiring so there are fewer splits ahead of the modem.
...

It's not apparent from my diagram, but basically, there's a 1-2 split that then splits 1-2 and to which the Internet modem and the phone modem are attached. The first split has the MOCA coax line and then the second splitter. I'm sure it's just a better idea to swap in a proper 1 - 3 splitter here. But based on what you say above about the upstream power from the modem from two splitters, this would also affect the power of the MOCA signal, even though that line is only feeding down into one of the splitters?

Also, this is not directly related to the MOCA issue, but just wondering - would this potential lack of sufficient power into the internet modem affect the throughput in the Wifi router hooked up to it?

Thanks again for the help and feedback.
 
lack of sufficient power into the internet mode

The downstream level is on the low end of acceptable. It'll work but has little margin to cope with the fluctuations that are normal. Higher is better.
The upstream level is on the high side of acceptable. It'll work but has the same issue as above... remember that upstream: lower is better.

Unless you see the lights on the modem faltering, the router won't be affected.
 
Okay, I'm going to try and upload this diagram I made. Not sure if the PDF will display okay, but fingers crossed.
 

Attachments

  • MOCA-network diagram.pdf
    53.6 KB · Views: 336
This will serve as an update.

I've now checked the adapters two ways:

(1) I removed the phone and internet modems (and splitters) and hooked adapter 1 directly to the line, then hooked second adapter 2 to my end of the line. Result: no coax signal communication.
(2) I connected both adapters to each other using a 6-inch coax cable I have. Result: coax signal communication.

I noted when unhooking my end of the line that the wall plate was messed up. I ended up removing and having to unhook the cable from the back end of the wall plug, and I noticed that the wall plate male-male interface was falling off.

None of the cable sleeves are compromised, and the plugs look okay on visual inspection. So - the problem doesn't seem to be the splitters. The problem is in the cable. I do have a cable box provided by my landlord, but not tv to be able to check if it's working. I assume it's not.
*Before* I go and talk to my landlord about getting an installer to come and try and replace or fix the in-wall cable runs, I wonder if I should also see if it's just the end of the plug entering my apartment that's bad. Is this something I *should* check? Like should I cut the end plug off and re-do, to see if that works?

The cable input into my apt is on a completely different wall than the one running into my landlord's study, so I suspect the in-wall cable run is funky. Not sure how much work it will be for an installer to come and fish out my run and try and re-do it.

And finally, someone mentioned TWC charges a lot for their cable service. Would a local AV installer be the kind of person I might look to for this kind of fix?

As always, I appreciate any feedback.
 
If you have to pull new cable maybe you should think about pulling CAT5e instead of coax as it will probably have more future in it.
 
I have tried lurking and searching to no avail. I'm simply looking for some troubleshooting advice on my MOCA network.

The main cable line of the house I live in - myself in the basement, my landlord above - includes Internet, cable and cable phone line. I installed a MOCA network using once Actiontec ECB2500 adapter with ethernet line from the TWC cable modem and Linksys wifi router of my landlord (who lives above me), and connected to the (functioning) coax cable line in my apartment. For several weeks, the network worked perfectly, as advertised, and I was able to separate myself from the too-far and overburdened wifi network.

At some point, the TWC line down the street went down when a gas line exploded in the intersection a block away. It took a few days for TWC to get the Internet working again. After that came back on, however, my landlord indicated his phone line wasn't working; he had TWC come and check the problem; they fixed it, including doing something near the cable POE in the back of the house, and since that time, the MOCA network has been down.

I know that it's a bad idea to run a MOCA line using bad splitters. Forgive my diagram, but this is the best I can come up with at the moment. The current splits look like this:


house coax line --------------2-split-------2-split----------->phone
| \
| modem====(ethernet)======>ECB2500c
|<-----(moca line)--< -----------------------------<--/


I took photos of the splitters a little while ago and will post them, but for now I can explain: they are both labeled "DigiMax." One indicates 5 - 1000MHz. The other says something slightly different. But I _did_ have a working MOCA network using these splitters. I've checked and re-checked the integrity of the actual coax lines, and all lines are tightly fastened. The modem-connected/MOCA-origin adapter has lights indicating it's got power and Ethernet. The end adapter indicates only power right now; if I plug in the ethernet cable, it indicates it's got ethernet connection.

I have not been able to identify the outside POE point for the cable running into the house - there are masses and masses of cables going to various spots, and some into my own unit (bottom of the brownstone).

My basic question is this: What is the most efficient way for me to troubleshoot this issue? From everything I've read and researched, I realize that the ideal would be I have the following:

(1) Swap out both 2-way splitters for one 1-3 splitter, rated up to 2 GHz;
(2) Install a POE filter.

As far as I have been able to determine, there is one additional coax output line in the house, which feeds directly to the TV of my landlord. I think it's pretty tightly arranged and wired, and I don't know if I can access that output to check if the MOCA signal is feeding there, though it's in the same room as the modem.

Other than swapping out the splitters for a single splitter, is there anything else I can check as the culprit for the lost network? Is there anything the cable guy might have done when repairing the phone cable line that might have disrupted the MOCA network? Is there an easy way on visual inspection to identify a TWC house cable drop? Since I did have a stable MOCA network before, I'd like to be able to get it back up and running. My wife depends on an easily available Internet connection for her business, and she needs to be able to transfer large, multimedia files easily. The Wifi network just isn't cutting it. I've tried to sell my landlord on wiring in CAT 5e cable, but that would involve two stories of wiring through his house, and 'unenthusiastic' grossly understates his response to that proposal. He also has zero interest in upgrading his obviously sub-optimal Wifi router (which I just figured out was likely infected with a worm that had slowed traffic to a crawl). MOCA seems like my best option with what I've got.

Thank you in advance for any helpful feedback anyone here might provide.

Since Cable Companies including TWC have been using MOCA to connect whole house DVR's, when an installer visits a customer premises they may install a MOCA filter to prevent a DVR MOCA signal from bleeding back into the TWC network. TWC can install ground blocks and splitters with built in MOCA Filters. If there is a splitter located outside of your residence connecting the upstairs to the downstairs check to see if the splitter has been replaced with one that is unusually large.
 
Last edited:
Since your adapters didn't work when connected with a 6" piece of coax I think you can assume one or both of them died.

The next step is to find a replacement power supply for your MOCA adapters and see if that is the problem. Even if the power light comes on and or your volt meter shows they are producing the correct voltage that doesn't mean the power supply is good.

If by swapping out power supplies you can't get a connection using a 6" jumper then time to buy a new unit.
 
If there is a splitter located outside of your residence connecting the upstairs to the downstairs check to see if the splitter has been replaced with one that is unusually large.

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, being in Brooklyn, I don't have the ability to discern what cable goes where - there are two nests of lines outside of both my apartment and outside of the upstairs house (landlord's), but I really can't tell whether they are cable or old telephone or what. The only line I recognize for sure is the one copper landline running into my unit, because I had it installed. None of the outside boxes or cables are identified as being TWC, and nothing even looks big enough to be a standard coax line. I believe my line is running down through the walls off of the main line into the house, not off of a splitter on the outside.
 
Since your adapters didn't work when connected with a 6" piece of coax I think you can assume one or both of them died.

The next step is to find a replacement power supply for your MOCA adapters and see if that is the problem. Even if the power light comes on and or your volt meter shows they are producing the correct voltage that doesn't mean the power supply is good.

If by swapping out power supplies you can't get a connection using a 6" jumper then time to buy a new unit.

I think my post must've been unclear - I _did_ get a connection w/ the 6" cable; so the adapters are good. It's either the line, or the connector on my end, or whatever splitter or junction there might be in the walls that's likely the culprit. My guess is that I pulled the line too hard at some point (wall plate is broken), and pulled something loose.
 
If you have to pull new cable maybe you should think about pulling CAT5e instead of coax as it will probably have more future in it.

Not from my landlord's point of view - he provides the extra cable set top box as part of the rental agreement. Perhaps if we do have to re-do the coax cable, I can talk him into adding the CAT5e line. He really has little interest in dealing with the Internet functionality at home, so it's kind of a lot of work even talking him into any of this. From his point of view, he's providing a wifi network, and that should be sufficient.
 
Okay.

So here's my latest piece of info. I plugged my cable set top box into the wall coax, and the STB time set itself. As I mentioned before, I do not have a TV, so I can't check full functionality, but at the least, it seems to me this indicates the STB is receiving some kind of sync signal over the coax line.

So, it seems that this may provide a strong indication of the following:

(i) The in-wall coax line is not compromised;
(ii) MoCA adapters *are* functioning;
(iii) Something is compromising the MoCA signal.

I am wondering if perhaps the house has a split outside that, in the absence of a POE filter, attenuates the MoCA signal, and on top of this, whether the MoCA signal is also attenuated because of the daisy-chained splitters and perhaps low-rated splitters (they don't list frequencies on them, just say "DigiMax").

I will get a 1-3 splitter for the adapter, and also try to figure out where I might be able to put he POE filter. Can anyone out there offer practical tips on identifying the actual TWC cable drop from the outside into the home? As I mentioned before, there is a nest of cables outside (back) of the house. I also just recalled that when the MoCA signal went out, TWC service came out and was working on a _neighbor's_ signal, but also apparently did something around the back of _our_ house. Perhaps he did something that killed or compromised the MoCA signal here? Maybe if there's a split, he added a POE filter on one arm of a house split, rather than on the main cable? What can I look for? There are two green plastic boxes with a single hex bolt keeping the box closed. I looked at the one outside of my unit, and it only had the telephone line for our unit.


Also, I need to replace the coax wall plate; like this: http://www.techtoolsupply.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=WP-81G-WH

All I have right now is a cutout rectangle in the drywall, with the cable sticking out. How do I get one of these wall plates to attach firmly into this wall?
 
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Since Cable Companies including TWC have been using MOCA to connect whole house DVR's, when an installer visits a customer premises they may install a MOCA filter to prevent a DVR MOCA signal from bleeding back into the TWC network. TWC can install ground blocks and splitters with built in MOCA Filters. If there is a splitter located outside of your residence connecting the upstairs to the downstairs check to see if the splitter has been replaced with one that is unusually large.

This is a new update. It took this long for me to get a new 3-way MoCA-friendly splitter and get it put in and check the adaptec ECBs. I just put this all in place, and I got nothing. I then went outside and located the house lines, and I saw that there were in fact two separate lines (white cable) running in. I followed them back and found that they are both strung to the back of the lot and suspended about 15 feet up. And what I saw them both connected to looked like what you describe - a huge metal block with multiple cable out lines that looked a lot like an enormous 6-way splitter, labeled Arris. Recall my MoCA signal was working with the ECBs up until a TWC tech came out to repair something with the next door neighbor and when the upstairs unit (landlord) was complaining about not getting its digital phone service. So it seems possible the TWC guy did something to cut off the MoCA signal, i.e. install a poe filter on the house side of the split.

The one thing I wonder is if this is the normal practice - our TWC is on my landlord's account; he pays an additional rental fee for the second set top box. Wouldn't they split a single line directly outside of the house, rather than running an entirely separate line for each unit (upstairs house and our apartment)?

And finally - if it's true that these two separate lines are running to some large, outdoor multi-house split, which apparently has a POE filter on the one upstairs line, does this mean the whole endeavor's dead? Unless I can get some TWC tech to move the POE, does this mean I'm basically stuck? Anyone know what a going rate is for a wire install contractor to run CAT 5e cable in an old house down three flights of stairs? It seems like it'd be a lot of work, but then again, I imagine it might be easier than I am guessing if one has the knowledge, experience and tools.

Would love to hear thoughts.
 

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