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Any downside to this config?

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punchsuckr

punchsuckr

Senior Member
Hi all,

Keeping my SSIDs different for the two bands, wifi would drop out at the fringes of my home when using my iphone (router is placed centrally), so I started testing network coverage with same SSIDs for 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz.
Keeping the SSIDs same would allow the iPhones in my home to switch bands without issues between 5Ghz and they remain on 5Ghz when in normal coverage areas of the router. The androids on the other hand are a stubborn bunch with my 1st gen moto x only connecting to 2.4Ghz and staying put (same with an old S3), but I don't really care about them anymore.
The real problem was my Sony 'smart' TV, that would sometimes login to 5Ghz and at other times to 2.4Ghz (2 entries for the same network name would be displayed on the connection page) and would switch bands randomly with a disconnection notice in between while streaming.

So I have now left the main 2.4 and 5Ghz SSIDs with the same name and enabled a guest 5Ghz network with home network access dedicated for the TV and other dumb devices which do not prefer 5Ghz.

So tell me, is this setup ideal for my issues or a better solution could be devised??

Thanks for your time!

Edit:Using merlin build 378.55
 
Already have my desktops on wired..however they are closer to the router than the TV. While it does have a NIC and I love a wired connection over anything I would have to run yet another LAN cable and a long one at that... there are enough cables running around the house as it is. Streaming does work perfectly on the 5Ghz guest network though.

Is there any downside to keeping the guest network always on?

Forgot to mention I'm using an N66U.
 
if the guest network doesnt use a password to access it than yes because others could use your connection for mal-intent and get you blamed. Otherwise you can keep it on all the time as long as it is well protected from unauthorised access. The only reason to have a guest network is to keep 2 LANs seperate.
 
I have it protected with a long randomised psk like the other 2 :)
I guess m good to go then.
 
I used to combine them into one SSID. I found there were fringe cases where certain products would behave badly. Constant switching between them, not be able to authenticate at all. Most products worked okay with the combined SSID but some did not. Older apple equipment also has issues with combined SSIDs where apple at one point recommended separating them.

All in all, I found that combined SSIDs was only causing more problems than solutions so I separated them. Works better. Even with 'combined' SSIDs certain devices won't roam any better than separate. That's my story. Hope it helps.

btw, if you REALLY want both, create like this:

SSIDS:
wifi (combined SSID)
wifi5 (non-combined 5ghz)
wifi2 (non-cmbined 2ghz)
wifi-guest (combined SSID)
wifi5-guest (non-combined 5ghz)
wifi2-guest (non-cmbined 2ghz)

Give 'bad' clients the non combined ones and the other devices the combined one.
 
All you need to do is disable the Guest network and 'forget' the 2.4GHz ssid and password network name on the TV. Then it can't roam. ;)

The issue with having more ssid's than necessary is that each one takes a bite out of the network throughput your router is capable of. If you don't need it. Don't use or enable it.
 
L&LD will try this if it works...however, I am unsure if the stupid TV has an option to forget any SSID.
 
punchsuckr said:
L&LD will try this if it works...however, I am unsure if the stupid TV has an option to forget any SSID.
Click to expand...

It must? If that doesn't work, simply change the ssid's on the router as necessary. ;)
 
One should always try to keep a common SSID, as the clients will make decisions based on conditions, but with a common SSID, they know that it's the same network.

That being said - there are some brain-dead clients that just don't do it right - Linux on the desktop is one of those, and I've seen brain-dead implementations on the Android side.

Someone mentioned Apple and unique SSID's - I haven't seen a problem there except for some brain-dead routers that match client/radio relationships, but that's a corner case..

If one moves to a common SSID - reset the wireless settings on all devices attached to the WLAN, and then rejoin, and they should be fine.
 
sfx2000 said:
One should always try to keep a common SSID, as the clients will make decisions based on conditions
Click to expand...

This isn't my experience in a home or small business environment. With the same SSID across the 2 and 5 ghz bands, you have no way to force a client to stay on a band (i.e. 5ghz) and typically since 2.4Ghz bands are more powerful mobile devices that are carried into range will initially connect to the 2ghz band. Most devices, even ones with brains, won't drop the 2.4 ghz band just to reconnect to a 5ghz band unless they had.

This isn't an issue for devices that you boot up while already within the 5ghz range such as a desktop or even a laptop. This is a problem though for devices that we carry into the wifi network from outside the range of the 5ghz. Cell phones are the problem and cell phones are most people's primary mobile devices.

I personally have the below setup and it works well for me even considering the info you sent on multiple SSIDS (thanks btw).

WIFI = common SSID for both 2 and 5
WIFI5 = Only for 5ghz
WIFI-GUEST = 2ghz only for guests.

The above keeps only 2 SSIDs per band so I think overhead is tolerable but I'm going to test it in real-world conditions anyway.
 
Calisro said:
you have no way to force a client to stay on a band (i.e. 5ghz) and typically since 2.4Ghz bands are more powerful mobile devices that are carried into range will initially connect to the 2ghz band. Most devices, even ones with brains, won't drop the 2.4 ghz band just to reconnect to a 5ghz band unless they had.
Click to expand...

Yes, they will... if a dual-band client is camping on 2.4GHz, that's probably best for it...
 
Its better for it how? Because it wants to transfer data slower? It would rather rsync my data at 1/8 the speed on a very congested 2ghz band instead of a 5ghz band that has zero neighbors at 8x+ the rate? Smart laptops with dual band radios may switch depending on the roaming agressiveness you've set on the card. Android and ios do not unless they loose signal or badly need to and they typically connect based on the highest power (2ghz).

In a mesh wifi config of Aruba APs with band steering enabled, then yes. On an asus home router no..
 
Calisro said:
Its better for it how? Because it wants to transfer data slower? It would rather rsync my data at 1/8 the speed on a very congested 2ghz band instead of a 5ghz band that has zero neighbors at 8x+ the rate?
Click to expand...

You're perhaps a smart user, but I'm a contributor to the standard, and have worked on chipsets, devices, and products/services...

I'm more correct than you... I've written code that is likely in your device.

If your devices are camping on the wrong band, that's a bug... there are many times where 2.4GHz is actually better, and there are times where 5Ghz is better.

Have a nice day...
 
sfx2000 said:
You're perhaps a smart user, but I'm a contributor to the standard, and have worked on chipsets, devices, and products/services...

I'm more correct than you... I've written code that is likely in your device.

If your devices are camping on the wrong band, that's a bug... there are many times where 2.4GHz is actually better, and there are times where 5Ghz is better.

Have a nice day...
Click to expand...
Bug or not its called real world. I have typical android (htc and samsung newer gen devices running 4 through 5.1) and an ios device. If I have a "bug" then everyone does on those devices. I'm not trying to upset you or say that you're not a smart dude. I'm just saying the "theory" doesn't always align with reality.

I'll give you another example. FireTv and FireStick. Both have issues connecting to 5ghz. they work on it but get laggy. Probably a bug. but... They will not roam either. I've had to isolate them on a 2ghz network to make them work well. How does one do that on a single SSID environment? I've tossed them on my guest network since its 2ghz only and they work great now.

Last example. I own a number of foscams. They connect to a router based on the ssid but then they also store its mac address and wont roam to a near AP. Yes, its a crappy design but its the real world. They will ONLY connect to the same bssid.
 
Calisro said:
Bug or not its called real world. I have typical android (htc and samsung newer gen devices running 4 through 5.1) and an ios device. If I have a "bug" then everyone does on those devices. I'm not trying to upset you or say that you're not a smart dude. I'm just saying the "theory" doesn't always align with reality.

I'll give you another example. FireTv and FireStick. Both have issues connecting to 5ghz. they work on it but get laggy. Probably a bug. but... They will not roam either. I've had to isolate them on a 2ghz network to make them work well. How does one do that on a single SSID environment? I've tossed them on my guest network since its 2ghz only and they work great now.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but it's still, either a bug, or the vendor's fundamental understanding of how the WiFi stack works in conjunction with the rest of your WLAN...

Seriously...
 
Calisro said:
Last example. I own a number of foscams. They connect to a router based on the ssid but then they also store its mac address and wont roam to a near AP. Yes, its a crappy design but its the real world. They will ONLY connect to the same bssid.
Click to expand...

Those cams equate SSID with BSSID, and they miss the point, it's a bug...

Not the first... Linux Network Management has a lot of issues with this, as do chipsets...
 
Calisro said:
Pretty interesting. Thx for the info. Now I want to test this!
Click to expand...

Once the lowest mandatory rates increase, the impact of increasing number of SSID becomes negligible as the spreadsheet shows. In today's homes with 802.11n and/or ac network, a couple of SSIDs (+those from your neighbours on the same band) are non issue. Nonetheless, it's another solid evidence to switch off b/g support if people don't have legacy devices. @sfx2000, an interesting read.

From my memory, Apple was the first manufacturer who made WiFi usable on mobile devices. But until today, their latest iPhones are still unwilling to switch to 5G after first clamped to 2.4G.
 
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