Reality check: I have 15" retina MacBook, is AC1900 reasonable?

Hi all, hoping for a quick reality check...

I've read on this site that AC1900 is often overkill (that many clients would do just as well on, say, AC1750) -- so I'm writing with the hope that somebody here will "just know":

I have a 15" retina MacBook (I think it would be "late 2013") -- is AC1900 reasonable for this particular client?

Thanks kindly, -Scott

The advantage AC1900 has over AC1750 is a more powerful processor. But that's no guarantee of superior 2.4 GHz performance. Look at the test results here:
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...oes-an-ac-router-improve-n-device-performance

Thanks Tim,

My previous impression was you had been suggesting that many AC clients simply couldn't connect to AC1900 routers to properly benefit, and that AC1750 would often be the "more sensible" fit.

Here's my situation: My primary client is a 15" rMBP, "late 2013" model. I currently have a Netgear WNDR3700 (looks like I bought it almost 6 years ago, time flies!). I live in an NYC apartment (maybe 800 square feet or so). I'm into photography, and backup over my wifi to a networked drive. I'm often in the same room as the router.

Is it sensible for me to be looking at AC1900? AC1750? Other?

Thanks kindly for being so willing to share your time! -Scott

there are 2 channel AC routers with ARM based CPUs. The best CPU on a consumer router currently is the qualcomm krait thats still in beta. Even so whether or not you need the CPU really depends what you do. If you use the router as NAS, media server, VPN you will want an ARM or better CPU but if you dont need all of those even the MIPS does well.

Are you sure your macbook has wireless AC? normally for laptops it is very easy to upgrade the wifi card and Intel's 2 channel AC card is quite inexpensive. Most wireless AC and below clients use 1 or 2 channels at most resulting in 300Mb/s for wireless N and 866Mb/s for wireless AC.

Some routers have accelerators for wifi and such which are tiny CPUs that handle and bridge between wifi and ethernet.

Which CPU you need for your router also depends on how much internet you have. higher frequency MIPS based will do 100+Mb/s on a consumer router for software NAT (i.e. if you need to use QoS and firewall) while dual core ARM A9 based will do up to 500Mb/s of software NAT. For hardware NAT almost any router can achieve gigabit throughput (check the charts). If you have symmetric gigabit fibre than you will need 2 Gb/s of throughput. The amount of throughput you need is your download + upload.

The total wifi speed you get isnt based on how many clients you have rather the highest number of channels they use. AC1900 uses 3 channels which is 1200Mb/so without a single 3 channel AC client in your network having AC1900 isnt going to give benefit. This is different for MU-MIMO though which the more channels you have (faster bandwidth rating) the more MU-MIMO clients it can support.

Even if you dont have wireless AC clients the newer and better wifi chips does improve 5Ghz wireless N performance.

I'm "pretty much sure" the 15" rMPB is AC-capable:
https://support.apple.com/kb/SP690?locale=en_US

But my (admittedly limited) understanding is that then there is a question as to whether it is 2x2 or 3x3, is that right? And that might determine AC1900 vs AC1750? Sorry, I'm not terribly up-to-speed on this. And I'm not sure if the 15" rMBP is 2x2 or 3x3 (or, if that's even the correct terminology).

Right now I back up over wifi (n) to a PC on my LAN (wired into my current router) -- but I'm also looking into getting a NAS, so I don't expect to plug a drive into the router's USB.

I get Internet from cable, often about 100+Mbps down, and 10+Mbps up.

What I'm not clear on is whether I should be shopping for AC1900, or AC1750, or some other class?

Thanks kindly for helping! -Scott

That MacBook has 3x3 AC Wi-Fi. Since it is Broadcom-based and uses the BCM4360 chip, it should support AC1900. Now, will you see a significant difference? Hard to say.

Both AC1750 and AC1900 have 3x3 radios. The difference is AC1900 supports 600 Mbps maximum link rate in 2.4 GHz when 40 MHz bandwidth mode is used. In your crowded 2.4 GHz airspace, I doubt if the router would ever be able to switch to that mode.

In your crowded airspace, I'd try to use 5 GHz as much as possible. In that case, both AC1750 and AC1900 support the same maximum 1300 Mbps link rate.

That said, you might or might not see an appreciable difference in performance between an AC1750 and AC1900 class router. But the difference is more likely to be from design differences between routers than AC1750 or AC1900.

My recommendation continues to be AC1900 as the "sweet spot" for price performance. Higher classes provide no benefit at this time for your single-client scenario.

Normally i would say go for the router that fits your needs best within your budget. I suppose the AC1900 uses 3x3 5Ghz wireless N which are more common but with everyone switching to AC and with most wireless N clients using 2x2 and single streams that even the AC1750 would fit well. Go for the router that gives you good hardware, stable firmware and a good wireless performance (chart comparisons). The CPU shouldnt matter since you arent using USB or VPN.

Thanks kindly, hopefully my last question on this...

Given the MacBook supports AC1900, I'm ok to "gamble" that I'll actually see real-world benefit from AC1900 (over AC1750) -- but since you describe AC1900 as the sweet-spot, I'm good to trust your judgement.

But given the "crowded airspace" -- do you happen to have an opinion on R7000 vs. RT-AC68U (or possibly some other suggestion)?

Overall, here's what we have:
* 15" rMBP (which I gather is 3x3 ac)
* a 13" rMBP and a Mac Air
* a few phones
* two AirPort expresses (which I only use for audio)
* a PC wired to the router with storage (to be replaced with a NAS)

Thanks kindly, yet again! -Scott

The benefits AC1900 class routers bring over AC1750 class routers is that they are an inherently better and newer design in addition to better radios, cpu's and other goodies (like better optimized antennae, for example).

Just look at the RT-AC66U vs. the RT-AC68U. To me, the performance difference is amazing.

I would rather have an RT-AC56U than the RT-AC66U as the former has hardware identical to the RT-AC68U except for it being a two (internal) antennae design vs. the 3 external antennae design of the others.

There are some that state the R7000 is the better router (hardware) over the RT-AC68U. But that is only with the XVortex fork of the RMerlin firmware though (and you'd be gambling on how long that fork will be kept up to date).

Is there some sensible way to choose between RT-AC68U and R7000?

I keep reading "RT-AC68U is a disaster, but R7000 is awesome" and then I read "R7000 is a disaster, but RT-AC68U is awesome" -- endlessly back-and-forth.

Is one perhaps more optimal for use in a smallish NYC apartment?

Or is there some sensible way to choose? (I'm not sure if all the reviews were based on earlier firmware.)

Anyhow, grateful if anybody has practical advice on which way to go (though I suspect we all tend to recommend whichever one we happened to get for ourselves!)...

-Scott

Yes, the sensible way is to buy both, test them thoroughly and fairly and keep the one that gave you the best experience in your environment. Return the other.

While it seems I am 'Pro' Asus it is not because I didn't own Netgear products before, I did. That is why if there is a choice, I will buy or recommend the brand that has features and security updates offered for long after it is bought.

L&LD said:

Yes, the sensible way is to buy both, test them thoroughly and fairly and keep the one that gave you the best experience in your environment. Return the other.

While it seems I am 'Pro' Asus it is not because I didn't own Netgear products before, I did. That is why if there is a choice, I will buy or recommend the brand that has features and security updates offered for long after it is bought.

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I hope I didn't sound as if your decision wasn't considered, very sorry if I did!

Personally, I don't like to buy-open-and-return (unless there is an actual problem) -- so my preference is to do my homework, and then stick with my decision.

If anybody else has an opinion on RT-AC68U vs. R7000 -- in particular, for my smallish urban setting -- I'd love to hear what you think should sway me one way or the other -- I'm completely torn!

turnstyle said:

I hope I didn't sound as if your decision wasn't considered, very sorry if I did!

Personally, I don't like to buy-open-and-return (unless there is an actual problem) -- so my preference is to do my homework, and then stick with my decision.

If anybody else has an opinion on RT-AC68U vs. R7000 -- in particular, for my smallish urban setting -- I'd love to hear what you think should sway me one way or the other -- I'm completely torn!

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No problem.

But I really think that in the WiFi space trying to buy things on 'specs' and theory is the wrong approach.

You may as well flip a coin for how applicable it will be to your use and environment.

But even if it DOES come down to a flip of a coin, then I can base the decision on other stuff like "which box looks prettier to me" -- or whether one has a nicer GUI (am I correct to think Asus wins for GUI?).

turnstyle said:

But even if it DOES come down to a flip of a coin, then I can base the decision on other stuff like "which box looks prettier to me" -- or whether one has a nicer GUI (am I correct to think Asus wins for GUI?).

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Which box looks prettier and which has a nicer gui (Asus, by far...) has no impact on how it will perform for you though.

I don't care about being wrong while in testing mode. I care about being right for the longer term.

And things like how the box or gui looks like I'm willing to grow used to if the performance and stability was the best to be had at that time (of the choices I examined).

L&LD said:

Which box looks prettier and which has a nicer gui (Asus, by far...) has no impact on how it will perform for you though.

I don't care about being wrong while in testing mode. I care about being right for the longer term.

And things like how the box or gui looks like I'm willing to grow used to if the performance and stability was the best to be had at that time (of the choices I examined).

Click to expand...

I hear you -- and, sure, the best way to know which would be better HERE would be to buy both, test HERE, and return one -- but I don't personally like to return gear like that, that's me -- so I have to make a decision somehow -- and if it really is a flip of coin, that can be a matter of personal taste.

But per Tim's comment above, from what I see -- IF I'm going to spend most of my time in 5GHz -- and if, according to the charts, the R7000 is the winner in 5GHz -- wouldn't that possibly flip the coin toward the R7000?

turnstyle said:

I hear you -- and, sure, the best way to know which would be better HERE would be to buy both, test HERE, and return one -- but I don't personally like to return gear like that, that's me -- so I have to make a decision somehow -- and if it really is a flip of coin, that can be a matter of personal taste.

But per Tim's comment above, from what I see -- IF I'm going to spend most of my time in 5GHz -- and if, according to the charts, the R7000 is the winner in 5GHz -- wouldn't that possibly flip the coin toward the R7000?

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Today? Sure, that seems like the R7000 is the better choice now.

But with the Netgear 'sell and forget' tactics, I would bet on the Asus for long term enjoyment myself.

turnstyle said:

Given the MacBook supports AC1900, I'm ok to "gamble" that I'll actually see real-world benefit from AC1900 (over AC1750) -- but since you describe AC1900 as the sweet-spot, I'm good to trust your judgement.

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The Airport Extreme is an AC1900 class router/AP from a Router and WiFi chipset perspective - so yes, any AC1900 class router/AP, your rMPB should perform quite well and you should see very good performance irregardless of AP vendor/OEM.

Might consider looking at the Linksys WRT1900ac - I've found them to work very well across many client chipsets and operating systems, including, but not limited to Apple devices.

since OP also has Airport Expresses, one should keep Airport Extreme on the list of considered devices, as they do work very well together.

well i suppose a good list would be the ASUS AC-68 variants (except DSL), linksys WRT1900AC, netgear R7000 and apple airport extreme with AC1900. If all your devices are from apple than by all means go with the airport extreme so you can have a complete apple look and a reason to throw things at apple when they dont work together.

The issues with these routers that can cause them to fail most commonly are:
Bad PSU
Bad firmware
overheating

Bad firmware can be overcome by custom firmware such as RMerlin or tomato or even openWRT as a replacement firmware or simply by updating and doing a factory reset.
A bad PSU can either be tested for its rated output stability or device power draw (to see if it draws more than what the PSU can supply) or by using a better one
Overheating can be overcome by placement and/or active cooling. just because a router is hot doesnt mean its overheating because the heatsink can be good that it dissipates heat quickly that it feels hot. You would need to check the temperatures from the firmware. Keep the non CPU components below 50C and the CPU itself below 80C

So the comments that often say a router is bad is usually baseless because its not the router itself that is bad but rather a component thats either software or some flaw around it such as cooling or PSU. Many cheap routers have been turned into reliable ones by flashing stable 3rd party firmware but the ones i listed all have good hardware.