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I should already know -- do you use BOTH 5GHz AND 2.4GHz?

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turnstyle

Regular Contributor
Hi all,

I've always assumed you choose whether to connect to 5GHz OR 2.4GHz -- but is the idea to connect to BOTH simultaneously, to maximize performance?

Sorry if a dumb question...

-Scott
 
No, the idea is that you setup one SSID with both bands and allow your client device to choose which band is the better band to connect to at any given time. Some people of course use separate SSIDs and spread their devices around to minimize congestion for certain devices.

Clients are not concurrent dual band, so they cannot connect to both bands at the same time. Generally only routers are concurrent dual band (so they can have clients connected on each band at the same time).
 
No, the idea is that you setup one SSID with both bands and allow your client device to choose which band is the better band to connect to at any given time. Some people of course use separate SSIDs and spread their devices around to minimize congestion for certain devices.

Clients are not concurrent dual band, so they cannot connect to both bands at the same time. Generally only routers are concurrent dual band (so they can have clients connected on each band at the same time).

So two follow-ups...

1) So one should assign the SAME SSID (and password) to BOTH 5GHz and 2.4GHz?

2) So I don't get this -- isn't the difference between AC1900 and AC1750 that AC1900 is somewhat faster over 2.4GHz? If so -- and if you don't use both bands simultaneously -- then how would AC1900 be faster than AC1750 for a single client?
 
I have older Cisco WAP320 APs and they can only run 2.4 GHz or 5 GHz one at a time. I don't use 2.4 GHz any more. I only run 5 GHz now. I think the newer APs run both at the same time. Maybe you were thinking about the older APs.
 
Quick answers...

1) Common SSID and Passwords can work in many cases, letting the client choose - some clients don't do this very well, but many do

2) They're call AC1900 as these devices do TurboQAM (also known as VHT40) - since most clients don't support this mode, the difference on the WiFi between an AC1750 class and a AC1900 class is almost nothing in 2.4GHz
 
Quick answers...
1) Common SSID and Passwords can work in many cases, letting the client choose - some clients don't do this very well, but many do

Thanks! So is it "generally recommended" to assign the same SSID and password to both?

2) They're call AC1900 as these devices do TurboQAM (also known as VHT40) - since most clients don't support this mode, the difference on the WiFi between an AC1750 class and a AC1900 class is almost nothing in 2.4GHz

My "best" client is a 'late 2013 15" retina MacBook Pro' -- and, from what I understand, it DOES support AC1900?

And if it does, is the improvement only over 2.4GHz? And if the improvement is only over 2.4GHz, and if I tend to use 5GHz, then there is effectively no difference? It seems to me that the client would need to talk to both radios?

Thanks!
 
Your Macbook Pro supports AC1300 in 5GHz, and N450 in 2.4GHz - it'll be fine with an AC1900 class router, and the AC1900's tend to have faster/better core chipsets as compared to AC1750 and below..

And yes, one can only use one frequency/band at a time...
 
So if the client only uses one radio at a time -- and if the difference between AC1900 and AC1750 is in the 2.4GHz -- does that mean you only see a performance improvement if you're using 2.4GHz? (assuming the client supports N600)

And if my Mac is N450 rather than N600, then I'm not going to see any wi-fi benefit from AC1900 (apart form the CPU)?
 
Correct, you'd only see the performance improvement if you were using the 2.4GHz band. The client is only going to connect with one at any given time.

AC1750 just means it can run up to 1300Mbps link rates on 5GHz and 450Mbps link rates on 2.4GHz. AC1900 means it can run up to 1300Mbps link rates on 5GHz and 600Mbps link rates on 2.4GHz. 5GHz is still much faster, so in practice, there isn't going to be much performance difference, unless you have clients that can support TurboQAM and they happen to be connecting on the 2.4GHz band at the time.

If you leave it up to the client, in GENERAL, it'll tend to connect to and switch to 5GHz when you are fairly close to the router and it'll tend to connect to and switch to 2.4GHz when you are at reasonably far distances from the router. The also means that in general "AC1900" is worthless, you are only going to get those 600Mbps link rates on 2.4GHz if you are very close to the router (it links at progressively lower rates the further you go from the router, because weaker signals means it needs to "talk" slower to be understood). If you are close enough to leverage 600Mbps link rates on 2.4GHz, you should absolutely be using 5GHz, because the link rates are going to be a lot higher on 5GHz at the time.

The only time it is really useful is if you ARE setting up clients to connect specifically to the 2.4GHz band and they are close to the router (probably the same room, maybe adjacent room).
 
And if my Mac is N450 rather than N600, then I'm not going to see any wi-fi benefit from AC1900 (apart form the CPU)?

Check the main site - Tim Higgins ran a test with AC1900 class routers on 5GHz with Legacy clients, and the results were surprising...
 
So AC1900 is pretty much pointless, as compared to AC1750 -- assuming 5GHz use?

I'm in a 800 square foot apartment, and I don't seem to use 2.4GHz -- so there is no practical reason to get AC1900 over AC1750?

(sfx2000: I did look for the article you referenced, but couldn't seem to find it?)

This is so interesting!
 
Is there some "I'll kick myself later for getting AC1750" scenario that I should be taking into account?

I ask because Tim describes AC1900 as the "current sweet spot" -- but given this conversation, I don't actually understand the point of AC9000 (at least for my network).

And now I'm thinking about getting an Archer C8, whereas previously I was leaning toward the ASUS RT-AC68U.

I'm still clunking along on a Netgear WNDR3700, and I'm quite looking forward to finally making the switch to ac!
 
Hehe... you're overthinking it man...

Of course I am, isn't that what makes this so much fun? :)

I just looked here:
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-reviews/32604-tp-link-archer-c9-reviewed
https://wikidevi.com/wiki/Broadcom

And from that, it appears the Archer C8 is an 800MHz BCM4708, and the Archer C9 is a 1GHz BCM4709 -- apart from that, RAM seems the same (128MB) and the 5GHz wi-fi seems the same (Broadcom BCM4360, SiGE 5003L1 5 GHz power amp (x3)).

The Archer C8 is about $120, and the ASUS RT-AC68U (the AC1900 I was leaning toward) is $200 -- so that's a pretty big jump. (68U uses BCM4708A)

Also: I won't use the USB, which I gather is a big part of what the faster CPU improves?

So, given I may indeed be overthinking, and that I welcome the lessons from people who know more than I do -- my current "reasonable" decision seems to be the C8 -- but I do welcome a sense of why I should get an AC1900 -- but at least when it comes to the Archers, the only difference appears to be: 1) 800MHz vs 1GHz CPU, and, 2) better 2,4GHz performance (which I gather I won't even use).

Isn't that so? And thanks for putting up with the questions! -Scott
 
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More RAM - more clients supported - each connection is tracked in RAM

Faster CPU - more throughput as many tasks are interupt driven, so faster clock, shorter time needed...

If you want a second opinion - check out Wirecutter..

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-wi-fi-router/

BTW - if you're in the US, and near a T-Mobile store, they've got an awesome deal on the 68U...
 
More RAM - more clients supported - each connection is tracked in RAM

Faster CPU - more throughput as many tasks are interupt driven, so faster clock, shorter time needed...

If you want a second opinion - check out Wirecutter..

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-wi-fi-router/

BTW - if you're in the US, and near a T-Mobile store, they've got an awesome deal on the 68U...

But Wirecutter recommends Archer C7? (and the SNB site has the C8 solidly at the top of AC1750)

I did consider the T-Mobile 68U, but it seemed a bit 'weird' -- eg, it's hard to find on the T-Mobile site, etc.
 
They recommend the C7, but the C8 is a decent step up.

Honestly though, in your situation, if you're not someone who spends hours and hours tweaking your router/AP, and want something that just runs...

Airport Extreme AC - Apple Online Store has them for $129 with full warranty...

I've got two of them running in my place - fantastic AP's, and they're pretty decent at routing...
 
And the Airport Extreme AC from a HW perspective - same WiFi chips as the R7000 and RT-AC68U, a slightly better CPU, and more RAM - the downside is that it has 3 LAN ports vs. 4, which isn't a deal breaker for me.

It doesn't run linux, it doesn't have a mini-Webserver/MediaServer in it - it can share files over SMB to PC's as well as Macs, and they have decent IPv6 support.

Not a lot of knobs to tweak in the settings, but generally, it's well configured out of the box.
 
They recommend the C7, but the C8 is a decent step up.

I'm confused! I was saying the C8 seemed like the "smart" choice for me -- and I thought you were suggesting I should stick with AC1900?

I have considered Apple's Extreme, but I kind of prefer the router to be agnostic -- and the 3-rather-than-4 port is a potential drawback for me -- also, the C8 is more like $120 vs. the Extreme at $180.

Did you think I was looking at something other than the C8?
 
I kind of prefer the router to be agnostic

Airports are agnostic - nothing specifc that would preclude usage with Windows/Linux/Android/etc... there is a bit of value add for Macs, but generally they work well across the board.
 

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