4/5 Bay NAS questions..

Hello all, this is one of the more informative forums I've seen, so I figured I'd settle here..

So I want a NAS and am looking at 3 models... Drobo 5N, QNAP TS-451 and Synology DS416.

The reason I mentioned the DROBO is due to the fact that if a drive fails, you can replace it with any brand drive and of a higher size. I don't like how they don't give you full specs, and it seems you really can't tinker with it like the others is a turnoff, as is the lack of a USB port which is important for my initial data transfer because 3 TB would take forever over ethernet.

So I guess my real question is how does the QNAP and Synology work as far as its raid setup. Reading online I see they suggest you replace a failed drive with a same model number and size, which is impossible when a drive fails years after purchase and the same isn't available, or you want to go bigger. The Drobo says you can just swap in a bigger drive and increase overall storage, is the same true for the other 2 devices? Is it ok to have unmatched sized drives?

I respect how the Drobo does things automatically, however I certainly don't mine doing real work and tinkering with the other 2, not to mention all they do over what the Drobo does. Any help would be appreciated..

Drobo is great when it works. Horrible when it doesn't and unfortunately, the doesn't isn't as infrequent as it should be. I would never recommend a Drobo even to my worse enemy. Search and learn.

Thanks for the assistance. I am aboard with your train of thought as it seems the forum is full of such stories.

So back to the original question about how the QNAP and Synology rebuild drives after a failure..

Mine is a 2 bay. Two volumes. No RAID. Less risk

stevech said:

Mine is a 2 bay. Two volumes. No RAID. Less risk

Click to expand...

How does that work? I assume whatever NAS you have mirrors both drives?

Sorry, trying to get a feel for how these things work before I buy everything.

medictrode said:

How does that work? I assume whatever NAS you have mirrors both drives?

Sorry, trying to get a feel for how these things work before I buy everything.

Click to expand...

No, 'no raid' means none. RAID1 would mirror all drives in an array.


For the 4 Bay NAS, I'd lean towards the QNAP, myself.

The 'Annapurna Labs Alpine AL-212' processor in the Synology is not something I would bet on with 1GHz less speed (and I know that is not the most important aspect either).

While stevech recommends a 2 Bay NAS with each drive being independent of the other (i.e. 'not in RAID' for good reason), I recommend a 4 Bay or higher solution with the following configuration.

Bay 1 & 2 is for the NAS system OS in RAID1 (the drives are mirrored). This ensures that you will have the best chance of a usable NAS for the long term. At least from drive failure.

Bay 3 can be used for daily/weekly (choose one and stick to it for this drive) backup of changed files.

Bay 4 can be used for weekly/monthly (choose one and stick to it for this drive) backup of changed files.

Both Bay 3 & 4 can be used to hold the 'vip' files you may have (medical, financial, etc.), giving you extra protection for those file types.

Both Bay 3 and 4 need to be backed up regularly to an external USB (or otherwise) connected drive. For maximum security, two such drives should be used and rotated with one always being off site for protection against theft, fire, etc..

While some recommend an 'automatic' solution to perform the above backups (especially the ones directly to the NAS), I do not.

I would use something like FreeFileSync and manually run the utility as needed. Not only does this save your files in a format you can recognize (files are simply copied as you see them on your computers), but you will be given a warning if there is any issue with the backup as it is done (on your daily, weekly or monthly schedules to the pertinent drive).

I hope I answered some of your questions, for now.

medictrode said:

So back to the original question about how the QNAP and Synology rebuild drives after a failure..

Click to expand...

RAID 5 volumes can tolerate a single drive failure. RAID 10 can tolerate two drive failures. The system will set an alert when a drive fails. You then log into the admin interface, locate the failing drive and swap it out. You then start a system rebuild. This occurs in the background and you can continue to use the system while the volume rebuilds.

gg

thiggins said:

RAID 5 volumes can tolerate a single drive failure. RAID 10 can tolerate two drive failures. The system will set an alert when a drive fails. You then log into the admin interface, locate the failing drive and swap it out. You then start a system rebuild. This occurs in the background and you can continue to use the system while the volume rebuilds.

Click to expand...

Thank you everyone for the assistance and replies, much appreciated.

So basically the Qnap and Synology will do their thing with minimal input from the user like the Drobo, but your getting a feature rich NAS that appears to be more reliable. I guess that aboue sums things up for me...

So if one did a Raid 10, which you say can tolerate 2 drive failures, I am going to assume if you have a 4 Bay NAS you have 2 Drives mirrored to another 2 Drives? Also, lets say you have 4 1TB drives with this arrangement the total available space would be 2 TB? Sorry for all the Questions, just trying to get all this stuff nailed down..

medictrode said:

How does that work? I assume whatever NAS you have mirrors both drives?

Sorry, trying to get a feel for how these things work before I buy everything.

Click to expand...

No, not mirror. I don't want that. I don't want RAID. Because there's ONE file system. If it is corrupted for one of many reasons, you better have a complete backup.
So my 2 bay has 2 drives, 2 volumes, 2 file systems. The main one is sync'd to the other once a day for most directories (folders), and more frequently for work in process.
And there is a "time backup" (time machine) which keeps the last n versions of all files in directories I state are VIP.

Too many issues with small NAS-RAID. Too risky for me. Too time consuming to baby.
Others will disagree, but that's what has worked for me for years now, with the DS212.

Going into a 4/5 bay NAS, makes sense to raid it up - RAID5/6 or RAID10 - each has it's benefits/risks and it really depends on the intended usage... and then create the mount points/shared folders as needed...

NAS is not a permanent backup - can be useful as part of an overall backup strategy, but the NAS itself also needed to be backed up a regular basis, as things do happen (fire/theft/device failure/etc...)

many horror stories where a small NAS owner needs to restore the RAID array and that fails. Worse, the owner had no independent backup.

stevech said:

many horror stories where a small NAS owner needs to restore the RAID array and that fails. Worse, the owner had no independent backup.

Click to expand...

Hmmm... I've not seen a lot of horror stories - but when things go wrong, some folks can manage well, and some, well, panic.

Happens... RAID5/6/10 with multiple share points - easy enough to recover - Individual Disks with dedicated shares, data on a failed disk is gone, gone, gone...

Most 4bay plus NAS boxes can survive a single failed drive just fine in RAID5/10 - as long as folks follow the right steps, and the vendors do have appropriate steps there... should also note that in my experience, the big names will alert on SMART pending failures - some even thru email...

It's the backup part that many miss - the NAS needs to be backed up... and on a periodic/regular basis...

sfx2000 said:

It's the backup part that many miss - the NAS needs to be backed up... and on a periodic/regular basis...

Click to expand...

This cannot be emphasized enough.

Very hard to convince some customers that they need a backup (or two) to their backup.

L&LD said:

This cannot be emphasized enough.

Very hard to convince some customers that they need a backup (or two) to their backup.

Click to expand...

I 2nd, 3rd and 4th that.

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/the-3-2-1-backup-strategy/

NAS or not. Even your human error can zap your data. As can a burglar.

stevech said:

NAS or not. Even your human error can zap your data. As can a burglar.

Click to expand...

Even more important to back that NAS up - as many use NAS boxes to aggregate backups from other machines...

a break-in or fire/flood can result in an even worse than bad day...

Family photos, financial records, trusts, wills, etc.

So I think I have a fairly good strategy in mind for backing things up now that I've read all the replies, thank you for that everyone. I think I am also gonna take a ride to my closest Micro Center because I am bored, and pick up a Qnap box, they seem to have a good amount of features for the price. I suppose once I get all the basics put together I will be back with more questions. Thanks everyone for the advice..

sfx2000 said:

Even more important to back that NAS up - as many use NAS boxes to aggregate backups from other machines...

a break-in or fire/flood can result in an even worse than bad day...

Click to expand...

This is what I'm wrestling with right now. I really need OFF-SITE backup now. That's the only piece missing and I just can't figure out a good way to do it.

So an update... I purchased and setup a QNAP TS-451 with 4 3TB Red drives. Static IPs were set to match my network configuration as well as forwarded ports. I did the Raid 10 for now, I couldn't figure out how to set it up with 2 drives backing up the other 2 like the one poster did, but I don't have all my data on there yet so I can always change configurations to suit my needs... All I have to say is wow, this thing is packed full of features, most of which I haven't even gotten into yet.

The 2 things I don't like about it are the white color, and the TV interface. Which both kinda work out because I am just gonna stick it out of sight in my network box where there is no TV...

My greatest hope is with all these crazy features it has it performs its main function, and that is to back stuff up and in case of drive failure to rebuild without any issues. I plan on have a backup of my important files in another structure on my property. This should prevent the fire/water aspect of things.