Need to upgrade and my purchase is based on your advice for my use case.

markyodo · Feb 10, 2016

The family has made the decision to cut the cable TV, but I have a big hurdle to overcome before it becomes reality and I need some advice. Right now everyone complains that the internet is slow, the wireless media clients have problems, etc.

My current home setup / devices.
Ranch house with finished basement.
Qnap NAS
5+ year old Wireless N Router & 5+ year old Wireless N Access Point
8 Port GB switch
2 wired media players (Amazon Fire TV 2) & 2 wireless media players (Amazon Fire TV 2)
2 PS4 (wireless) / 6 iPhones / 2 iPads / 4 Laptops (wireless N) / 1 Kindle
2 Wireless Printers
2 Raspberry Pi 2 (floaters wired or wireless)
On weekends the wireless count can double when the kids friends are over for game nights.

We want to drop cable and move to a 50-60mb internet connection.
So I need to upgrade and want to know - if I am basing my purchase in order of importance:

Stream internet media (netflix, hulu, etc.) to wireless media players.
Stream local NAS media wireless to media players.
Internet for connected devices, while media is streaming.

Will I benefit from a MU-MIMO, TriBand AC router purchase and which would be best for my use case.
It's been years since I have had to research network equipment and I have read there are pros and cons to each type and chipset so your input and recommendations are valuable to me.
Thanks in advance!

sfx2000 · Feb 10, 2016

markyodo said:
Will I benefit from a MU-MIMO, TriBand AC router purchase and which would be best for my use case.

Some folks might disagree with me, but going to a MU-MIMO/Tri-Band router isn't likely going to make a big impact on your network.

Depending on the footprint of the house - a couple of AC1900/AC1200 class AP's, in conjunction with some HomePlug adapters, and some CAT5 where needed...

abailey · Feb 10, 2016

sfx2000 said:
Some folks might disagree with me, but going to a MU-MIMO/Tri-Band router isn't likely going to make a big impact on your network.

Depending on the footprint of the house - a couple of AC1900/AC1200 class AP's, in conjunction with some HomePlug adapters, and some CAT5 where needed...

I agree with this. I did the same thing as far as "cutting the cord". The first thing I did was to wire anything I could to get it off wireless. CAT5 cable, MOCA coax adapters, and Homeplug adapters if you have to. Then after that I would get (and did get) some AC1900 AP's for wireless.
PS: If you cut the cord and don't need your COAX cable then DECA can be a cheaper solution to MOCA. I use both in my house.

Nullity · Feb 10, 2016

Even the relatively old RT-N66U could handle what you require, with ease.

The most important factor is your internet speed. Consider that a single 720p YouTube stream will use ~6Mbit. Netflix advises 5Mbit per HD stream and 25Mbit for 4K/Ultra-mega-super-maximum HD.

Torrenting or other file-sharing is the bane of any network...

System Error Message · Feb 10, 2016

You dont need MU-MIMO, you dont even have clients that can use it. I dont see how torrenting is the bane of a network, i like putting load on my router and seeing more CPU being used but the router i use isnt one that will buckle under extreme load.

It is best to wire as much of your network as you can. I power the raspberry pi from my router so it is connected by usb and ethernet. If you can wire something than do it even the PS4 as it helps with speed and reduces wireless traffic.

markyodo · Feb 11, 2016

System Error Message said:
You dont need MU-MIMO, you dont even have clients that can use it.

Fire TV supports 802.11ac & MU-MIMO which is why I was considering it. I also expect the next laptop and or phone purchase would support it. I understand the need for wired connections. I guess I just assumed that wireless technology had advanced enough to support the workload and multiple streaming clients.

joegreat · Feb 11, 2016

sfx2000 said:
Depending on the footprint of the house - a couple of AC1900/AC1200 class AP's, in conjunction with some HomePlug adapters, and some CAT5 where needed...

abailey said:
CAT5 cable, MOCA coax adapters, and Homeplug adapters if you have to. Then after that I would get (and did get) some AC1900 AP's for wireless.

Just to be clear: Hands off from CAT5 cables!!! They need to be at least CAT5e or better CAT6 certified! And: you do not want to stick with CAT5 which gives you only 100MBit...

Some router models and devices will react "allergic" on CAT5 cables and that's no fun if you need to drill down to the cable problems after the installation!

My wireless suggestion is listed in the footer - where one of them is allergic against CAT5!

netwrks · Feb 12, 2016

IMO, I would move to at least a 100 Mbps Service from your ISP and run ethernet to those PS4's. As mentioned above, two or more AC1900's should do the job strategically placed.

Trip · Feb 12, 2016

I'm surprised no one has even hinted at the importance of a good QoS schema for your traffic, namely a router that offers fq_codel or the like as part of a queue + shaper approach... All the latest switching and bridging in the world won't mean a damn if you don't have a proper way to deal with contention while you're streaming all that content, making VoIP calls, pushing light traffic, etc. all at the same time. I'm willing to bet *that's* why you're hearing from your family that internet is "slow". If most of that reads like Chinese, do some google-fu and educate up; you'll be glad you did.

Moving on, yes, wire in as many endpoints as possible -- Cat6 runs, MoCa/powerline if necessary -- but I'd still do a "core" wired router along the lines of an EdgeRouter-X or commodity Broadcom-based all-in-one running DD-WRT Kong in order to get good QoS deployed. Then you can roll out whatever access point setup you like based purely on its wifi merits -- AC all-in-ones set into AP mode, UniFi, whatever.

Nullity · Feb 12, 2016

Trip said:
I'm surprised no one has even hinted at the importance of a good QoS schema for your traffic, namely a router that offers fq_codel or the like as part of a queue + shaper approach... All the latest switching and bridging in the world won't mean a damn if you don't have a proper way to deal with contention while you're streaming all that content, making VoIP calls, pushing light traffic, etc. all at the same time. I'm willing to bet *that's* why you're hearing from your family that internet is "slow". If most of that reads like Chinese, do some google-fu and educate up; you'll be glad you did.

Moving on, yes, wire in as many endpoints as possible -- Cat6 runs, MoCa/powerline if necessary -- but I'd still do a "core" wired router along the lines of an EdgeRouter-X or commodity Broadcom-based all-in-one running DD-WRT Kong in order to get good QoS deployed. Then you can roll out whatever access point setup you like based purely on its wifi merits -- AC all-in-ones set into AP mode, UniFi, whatever.

We are all just guessing about what the current reason for the slow-down is. Until the 60Mbit internet and new 802.11ac APs are setup, we dunno if he will even have a problem.

Granted, a router that supports CoDel can only be a good thing.

htismaqe · Feb 12, 2016

I'm guessing nobody mentioned QoS because it's not really a requirement.

I have almost double the number of devices he has and run Cisco IPT out of my home office all day, every day. QoS on SOHO devices is often more trouble than it's worth.

System Error Message · Feb 12, 2016

what i mean is you dont have enough clients for MU-MIMO to make a difference because they only use 20mhz channel width. As for wireless load it really depends on the hardware and firmware. Some wifi APs use the firmware to handle all the traffic in software while some use the hardware (which limits the number of clients). Whenever i use a consumer router i only use it as an AP and use a much better router as the main router that wont fail usually a non consumer one. There are UTM based OS, pfsense, ubiquiti, mikrotik, juniper, cisco IOS stuff that never really fail unless you have bad hardware. You can also install 3rd party firmware on your existing routers if fast enough such as openWRT, tomato and RMerlin's firmware. Usually if a router freezes it is because of the PSU if the firmware is good.

Wifi is for convenience, never expect performance out of it. If you want the convenience and not the performance than have your devices use wifi but wiring devices is a lot more reliable and faster. If you are planning on getting MU-MIMO than it can help if you have enough devices or streams.

markyodo · Feb 17, 2016

I've made a decision, but have a question about wired router.
My setup will include cable modem, router, SRW2048 48-port Gigabit Switch, and 2 Ubiquiti Unifi AP AC Lite's.
I want to know what router would you choose? Should I get a cable modem with router, or a stand alone router?
Consumer, Enterprise, etc. I really only need 3 ports.

Nullity · Feb 17, 2016

It is hard to find good router-modem combos. Finding a good modem is easy, and finding a good router is easy.

Nullity · Feb 17, 2016

htismaqe said:
I'm guessing nobody mentioned QoS because it's not really a requirement.

I have almost double the number of devices he has and run Cisco IPT out of my home office all day, every day. QoS on SOHO devices is often more trouble than it's worth.

Most of the advanced topics on this site are "often more trouble than it's worth", but... that is why I am here. I enjoy the journey.

System Error Message · Feb 17, 2016

if you use fibre optics than you can use a router with SFP. I recently spotted GPON SFP module on mikrotik's website for those that use GPON. QoS on a configurable router is very effective.

sfx2000 · Feb 17, 2016

System Error Message said:
if you use fibre optics than you can use a router with SFP. I recently spotted GPON SFP module on mikrotik's website for those that use GPON. QoS on a configurable router is very effective.

SEM - Chase back up to the top of the thread - Fibre/SFP/GPN and a MicroTik is well beyond his needs...

sfx

Nullity · Feb 17, 2016

sfx2000 said:
SEM - Chase back up to the top of the thread - Fibre/SFP/GPN and a MicroTik is well beyond his needs...

sfx

Right, but have you considered the products Mikrotik offers?

Mikrotik!

sfx2000 · Feb 17, 2016

Good products - but consider the audience here...

Very steep learning curve with their devices... once there, all good...

Nullity · Feb 17, 2016

sfx2000 said:
Good products - but consider the audience here...

Very steep learning curve with their devices... once there, all good...

Oops, I was being (subtly) sarcastic.

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Need to upgrade and my purchase is based on your advice for my use case.

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