Mint QR for E-Sim

[sfx2000]

Metro was agile when it came to innovation and TMO is a bit of a bureaucracy when it comes to execution. From the engineering standpoint metro managed a small team of 6-8 engineers on the ops side and maybe 10 more on the design side. TMO has several small groups though depending on the gear being touched. But when I say small it's 20/team. Different animals in terms of budget and revenue but if things scaled based on headcount TMO should be handling north America and not just the US. Not to mention TMO having several regional Noc locations and call centers. Recent news though shows them cutting back to only 5 locations now that the cuffs from the sprint deal are off.

Not quite - I'm ex-ATT via Cricket... I was there for much of this consolidation...

We were fierce competitors in the market, but there was actually a fair amount of collab as well, as our markets didn't exactly overlay each other...

At the engineering level, yeah, there were a handful of engineers and managers at the core network, but you have to consider all the operations folks and the RAN teams. We had around 300 on the engineering and ops teams as we not only had our MVNO relationship with Sprint, we also had our own RAN - MetroPCS was similar...

The key difference with TMO-Metro vs ATT-Cricket - TMO embraced the Metro folks, folded a lot of their "DNA" into how the TMO business operated... With ATT-Cricket - we were seen as the "cowboys" and being merged into a business that was far bigger than just wireless with a 100 year legacy of being "Ma Bell" - culturally it just wasn't really a good fit for us legacy Cricket folks.

Sadly, it really didn't work that way with the Sprint merger - most of the Sprint folks either left or were laid off...

 

[sfx2000]

Never had to deal with att though from an internal standpoint. But dealt with them on the end user side enough to know they need a massive overhaul.

anyways - there's some hard feelings here, so I really don't need to discuss it further...

What I can say is that many of the ex-Metro and ex-Cricket folks have kind of joined back together - hence we see cable co wireless on Spectrum, Comcast, and Cox - which is nice to see...

Going back to Mint and the TMo thing - it should be interesting, as both know the cost of service, cost of customer acquisition, and customer churn - Mint's game was the 90 day survival rate, which was a key metric that they absolutely nailed down...

It's much like airlines and travel - United/Delta/American airlines - they are the top tier - and Frontier/Spirit are the bottom tier - and then you have Southwest, which actually has decent customer loyalty - that's Mint Mobile - the Southwest Airlines of wireless...

 

[Tech Junky]

Yeah, I was the cowboy on my teams looking for efficiencies to solve problems and expedite things. It bit me in the backside more than once on my first stint with TMO and then moved to metro shooting for the engineering side and falling back to the ops side which was actually a better fit than dealing with their 5x ccie director. I earned my director having my back early on with my specialty being iOS XR platforms. Also had strong alliances within the team that helped deflect some of the heat at times. I used my inside knowledge of TMO to our benefit when the merger came about to guide the team through the trenches and minefield of TMO politics.

Working on VZW though through a sort of msp for projects on both coasts gave insight to the network and how things tied together helped when bouncing over to metro to help revamp things. Through the msp experience l got hands on with uscc as well. Small but mighty network.

On the cable front worked with both CC and TWC as well also did a short stint on Mediacom as well.

Yeah, churn is a huge metric for shareholders. 90 days without a contract on the handset looks better I suppose. Until you have subs like me hunting the best deals at renewal. I learned long ago not tot take the bait of the subsidy and just buy outright to avoid the trap. Now that everything is for the most part using the same tech it's easier to jump between networks. OnePlus makes it easy with all of the bands the bake into the handset.

 

[drinkingbird]

Yeah, I would think so too but, there's the always the chance of it changing.

The only time I've seen it change was with the phone + 12 months of service for the price of 6 if you ported in a number - people would not port in a number and the 12 months would change to 6. I think in this case you should be ok, but of course you never know 100%.

 

[Tech Junky]

if you ported in a number

That requirement is kind of dumb IMO since they're getting more $ off the handset to comp the 6 months of service. Considering the whole porting process triggers events on the other side and the handset return policy should compensate for potential returns which would leave someone w/o a working phone until they figure out how tow to port their number back and reactivate services and then deal with the potential billing issues caused by the whole process.

 

[drinkingbird]

That requirement is kind of dumb IMO since they're getting more $ off the handset to comp the 6 months of service. Considering the whole porting process triggers events on the other side and the handset return policy should compensate for potential returns which would leave someone w/o a working phone until they figure out how tow to port their number back and reactivate services and then deal with the potential billing issues caused by the whole process.

It's their way of making sure they're stealing a customer, they ran some excellent deals in Dec/Jan on the Pixel 7 / 7 Pro + 12 months of service, probably even below cost, in a last bid to run up their numbers vs the competitors as they were negotiating with T-Mobile.

In reality they shot themselves in the foot, the prices were so good people were buying the phone and either throwing away or selling the service dirt cheap, then using the phone on another carrier or on their existing Mint line.

 

[Tech Junky]

throwing away or selling the service dirt cheap

Still adds up to a net add to counter any churn. That's where the porting comes into play to account for the service side and bind the purchase to the handset unless they're smart and just get a GV# and port it out for $3 to Mint. I'm sure there are other ways as well through other providers to get a # to port. 6 months of free service would be worth the $3 for a number to use for the process.

 

[sfx2000]

Yeah, I was the cowboy on my teams looking for efficiencies to solve problems and expedite things. It bit me in the backside more than once on my first stint with TMO and then moved to metro shooting for the engineering side and falling back to the ops side which was actually a better fit than dealing with their 5x ccie director. I earned my director having my back early on with my specialty being iOS XR platforms. Also had strong alliances within the team that helped deflect some of the heat at times. I used my inside knowledge of TMO to our benefit when the merger came about to guide the team through the trenches and minefield of TMO politics.

Sounds like you were on the IT/BSS/OSS side of the house - I ran the applications platforms on the engineering side... messaging, auth (AAA/HSS/HLR), and activation platforms for 2G-OTASP and SIM management.

Engineering was revenue... IT/BSS was a cost of doing business... of course, the RAN and OPS teams kept the lights on...

Going back to the 90-day churn metric - the pre-paid market is brutal, and most providers do 30 day billing, paid in advance - so if you kept them for more than 3 months, you were golden, as that was the key metric, those users would stay...

 

[drinkingbird]

Still adds up to a net add to counter any churn. That's where the porting comes into play to account for the service side and bind the purchase to the handset unless they're smart and just get a GV# and port it out for $3 to Mint. I'm sure there are other ways as well through other providers to get a # to port. 6 months of free service would be worth the $3 for a number to use for the process.

Yeah I made that argument to dozens of people who were just giving up the 6 months and getting a new mint number. Pay the $3 bucks dummy.

The main reason Mint did it that way is they are unable to carrier lock Pixels so they had to try to find another way to lock users in.

 

[sfx2000]

Through the msp experience l got hands on with uscc as well. Small but mighty network.

US cellular cannot be bought, BTW - rumor is that they're mob money...

 

[Tech Junky]

Sounds like you were on the IT/BSS/OSS side of the house

TMO - IP ops
MPCS - IP ops + all of the other systems that tied into the network
MSP - network merc basically / smart remote hands to execute changes they didn't have bandwidth for capx vs opx

most providers do 30 day billing, paid in advance - so if you kept them for more than 3 months, you were golden, as that was the key metric, those users would stay...

I can see that being an option. The only other one that had bundles I can recall was Tello doing 3/6/12 packages on stacksocial for a reduced cost. Most though you're right do 30pday increments and don't bother discounting longer periods typically. Now, one option though to pad churn is use pay go buckets of $ for time/data/sms and tello does offer that as an option as well.

US cellular cannot be bought, BTW - rumor is that they're mob money...

I think it comes down to more of a monopoly issue since they have the sub count to make a majority if they got bought out. As to their origins of funding though.... They were tight with Cellular One at one point though when there was more diversity in the marketplace. I think CO is still around - https://mycellularone.com/plans/

 

[sfx2000]

US cellular cannot be bought

Interesting update - TDS, which owns US Cellular, has expressed interest in selling off the USCC operation... Word on the street is that TMO (T-Mobile) is front-of-the-line here...

If that happens, then DISH is essentially cooked at a mainline mobile provider here in the US as VZ and TMO have sucked the air out of the room - we're a mature market, so customer churn is the only growth path...

c-spire doesn't want to be acquired - and this is ok, as they're around 1M subs, and Shentel is is around the same...

DISH cannot acquire enough subs to sustain the deployment of a nationwide network, and they are running short of cash as their DBS business is shrinking....

Best bet for them is to not play the same game as the incumbents - focus on non-tradtional markets like M-IOT and FWA...

Side Note - DISH has been pushing for ORAN, but the tech there is not ready for primetime as seen on the Rakuten (JP) and 1on1 (DE) deployments - ORAN can't scale at the moment - in theory it should work, but in practice, it's not working...

 

[sfx2000]

DISH cannot acquire enough subs to sustain the deployment of a nationwide network, and they are running short of cash as their DBS business is shrinking....

Best bet for them is to not play the same game as the incumbents - focus on non-tradtional markets like M-IOT and FWA...

Side Note - DISH has been pushing for ORAN, but the tech there is not ready for primetime as seen on the Rakuten (JP) and 1on1 (DE) deployments - ORAN can't scale at the moment - in theory it should work, but in practice, it's not working...

October update

TDS/US Cellular is still up for play, but insiders say T-Mo...

4G/5G - spectrum is being divvied out as we speak with the small regionals, big guys are going all in - big guys being ATT/VZW/TMO

DISH is in a battle and it's just not one of gaining subs, it's about growing the core/towers - licenses for spectrum are just one more addition...

I don't think they will succeed here - the headwinds are pretty strong and the big three are sucking all of the air out of the room in a mature market - VZW/ATT/TMO all reported net post-paid subscriber additions for Q3-2023

Anyways - as someone that was part of a solution - if you're paying more that 30USD a line, you're paying too much

 

[Tech Junky]

if you're paying more that 30USD a line, you're paying too much

Just did my third round at $15/mo for three months unlimited and they just renewed the campaign again. The key for me is having my primary number on Google voice and just activating the new esim with a new number. Since I have the op11 and it's not on their list of phones for esim I just activate through the laptop and then scan the QR to activate.

 

[sfx2000]

I can see that being an option. The only other one that had bundles I can recall was Tello doing 3/6/12 packages on stacksocial for a reduced cost.

Well, again - for Pre-Paid - once you have them for 3 months, you own them for a long time - much longer than the 24-36 month post-paid contracts...

Over in 5G-FWA land - T-Mo has been playing this game exceptionally well - perceived scarcity at a value price...

To that end, they're finding growth outside of their traditional market...

 

[Tech Junky]

you own them for a long time

For me it's only about the network and not the reseller. When it's time for renewal in 3 months then it's the cheapest option whether mint is doing the same promo again or switching to something that fits the budget and data for the best price.

Over in 5G-FWA land

What's changed?

 

[sfx2000]

For me it's only about the network and not the reseller. When it's time for renewal in 3 months then it's the cheapest option whether mint is doing the same promo again or switching to something that fits the budget and data for the best price.

They pay cash - it is the old story - gang-bangers, drug-dealers, and whores - they need phone services, and they pay cash.. and don't ask much in return...

As long as the carrier has open-doors - e.g. go to a physical space to pay the bill...

 

[Tech Junky]

They pay cash

Throw away phones would be more atune to that summary if they want to not be tracked since the IMEI would be static vs the SIM swaps. Considering how cheap phones have gotten in that realm.