N vs B/G range and WPA mixed questions

[Paradise]

Ok i did read 802.11n products will not increase wireless LAN range.
But has b/g a better range?

I have an old Netgear DG834GB (this thing is ~11 years old) and the range is better with every device i check the range with compared to Netgear WNDR4300 and TP-Link TL-WDR3500 at 2.4GHz N.
I also hat a ASUS Dark Knight because of all the good reviews but range was not better.

I sold the Asus because of the 10 watts power consumption and was looking for devices that consume less because there is no way i have good WLAN over two floors with just one AP.
The Netgear and TP-Link together consume less power then the Asus alone.

Yes i life in a German house with 14" stone walls and concrete ceilings with allot of steel

But i wonder why the old DG834GB b/g range is better?
N and b/g are both 2.4GHz so there should be no difference?

The other question is about WPA/WPA2 mixed mode.
I have some old devices that only support WPA-PSK (TKIP i guess).
If i chose mixed mode in the AP does that mean that devices that support WPA2-PSK (AES) always chose this higher encryption?

 

[sm00thpapa]

I would suggest going with a router and an AP connected via power line. N does increase speed but not much on range. This is something you would have to play with. Different routers have different range regardless of A, B, G, N or AC. Some have amplifiers to boost signal. As far as security I would get a separate AP for all your older devices that do not support WPA2 AES and keep them separated.

 

[Paradise]

Router is pfSense...
WNDR4300 and TL-WDR3500 with DD-WRT already act only as APs.
The old DG834GB is for the older devices and only on if needed.

But i still wonder why the old DG834GB has more range with all that commercial they are doing on newer devices when it comes to range.

And the question still remains if clients that support WPA2-PSK (AES) always/automatically chose the better encryption if the AP is in mixed mode?

Why to you suggest power line? All devices are connected to a switch via CAT...

 

[stevech]

speed vs. range. Pick only one.

ye old 802.11b has the best range due to it's low modulation bit rate.
lower speeds of 11g/n as well.

 

[sm00thpapa]

You need to contact your device manufacturer customer support and ask them that WPA2 mixed mode question.

 

[Paradise]

Isn't that a OS question? Windows, Android, iOS, Window Mobile....
If i search for mixed mode there is not a definitive answer.

From: https://supportforums.cisco.com/doc...ode-operation-and-how-do-i-configure-it-my-ap

The client selects the encryption cipher it would like to use

but nothing about if the OS is then using WPA2-AES

 

[sfx2000]

Ok i did read 802.11n products will not increase wireless LAN range.
But has b/g a better range?

I have an old Netgear DG834GB (this thing is ~11 years old) and the range is better with every device i check the range with compared to Netgear WNDR4300 and TP-Link TL-WDR3500 at 2.4GHz N.
I also hat a ASUS Dark Knight because of all the good reviews but range was not better.

I sold the Asus because of the 10 watts power consumption and was looking for devices that consume less because there is no way i have good WLAN over two floors with just one AP.
The Netgear and TP-Link together consume less power then the Asus alone.

Yes i life in a German house with 14" stone walls and concrete ceilings with allot of steel

But i wonder why the old DG834GB b/g range is better?
N and b/g are both 2.4GHz so there should be no difference?

The other question is about WPA/WPA2 mixed mode.
I have some old devices that only support WPA-PSK (TKIP i guess).
If i chose mixed mode in the AP does that mean that devices that support WPA2-PSK (AES) always chose this higher encryption?

Hi - I'll try to answer your questions;

802.11n in 2.4GHz is, for the most part, going to give similar ranges to 802.11b and 802.11g, with the following caveat...

40MHz (Wide Channels) will cut gain by about 3dB - which means, half... so use narrow channels (20MHz mode for most routers in 2.4GHz) - so if you're expecting better range, use 20MHz channels...

802.11n also offers "Greenfield Mode", aka 802.11n only, but what can happen here is that adjacent networks can put an AP in 802.11n-only into a Protection Mode that can impact overall performance by over 80 percent, so best to leave the AP in 802.11 mixed mode there...

With Authentication - 802.11n requires WPA2, along with WMM - this is due to frame aggregation (putting a bunch of frames in a burst) and keeping those frames secure (WPA2 uses AES, along with block-chains to encrypt the entire burst of frames)

There's a loophole in the WPA/WPA2 Auth - for backwards compatability, vendors can use TKIP for the group key, and still use AES/WPA2 for the pair-wise keys - best, if possible to not do this, keeping the AP in WPA2 only...

WMM (perhaps also labeled as Wireless-QOS) - 802.11n (and 802.11ac) depend on this for most of the performance benefits... mostly for the frame-aggregation properties...

 

[sfx2000]

speed vs. range. Pick only one.

ye old 802.11b has the best range due to it's low modulation bit rate.
lower speeds of 11g/n as well.

actually 11b has more signal gain at the low bit rates - DSSS vs. OFDM - 11g/11n might have same bit rates, but they're still 11g/11n using OFDM - DSSS has about 2dB more modulation gain, but can't scale up within 802.11 to rates much beyond 22Mbps (remember the pre-802.11g non-standard implementations?).

DSSS vs. OFDM is the primary reason for 4G - OFDM scaled better... even with the CDMA evolution for 1x/EVDO, the stillborn UMB initiative...

sfx

 

[stevech]

Operating with low signal-to-noise ratio, low chipping rate, low coding rate, low peak-to-average power ratio and closer to 100mW RMS in the 11b waveform, all add up to good range for 11b. Trading speed for range, with 2dBi or so antennas

Put 10dBi antennas (flat panel dipole array, cheap) on a SISO arrangement, range really benefits.

 

[Paradise]

What is "SISO arrangement"?

 

[azazel1024]

SISO = Single Input Single Output. It its a radio arrangement where there is only a single input radio chain and a single output radio chain.

That is standard in most cell phones and too many tablets and laptops. MIMO is Multiple Input and Multiple Output. This is what most routers are. 2:2 is a 2 input and 2 output client/router and thus is MIMO. There are also some, but rare, that are "unbalanced" where you can have 3 inputs and 2 outputs, or 3:2.

You can also have MISO or SIMO, where it is 2 inputs an 1 output or 1 output and 2 inputs, but I think I've only seen designs like that in wifi a couple of times before.

 

[stevech]

SISO for WiFi is what existed before 802.11n and later brought varieties of MIMO.