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NAT Loopback and PS3

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Speedluvver

Regular Contributor
Am running Merlin 378.51 beta where you can choose NAT loopback - Merlin, ASUS or disabled

I do not fully understand NAT loopback, but I have has an issue recently where my son cannot hear one of his PS3 friends playing Destiny - the error message is 'NAT error' in the game.

I disabled NAT acceleration based on a google search with no joy, and have tried the Merlin and ASUS NAT loopback settings - problem still existed. I tried disable NAT loopback on the off chance, and it has resolved the issue..

Anyone have a suggestion as to why ? will I break anything else by disabling this ? I do not access my local LAN from outside - apart from via the synology quick connect - have not tested it, but NAS does not report any issues

Thanks in advance
 
NAT loopback has nothing to do with it. This is only for people who need to access a forwarded port from within their LAN.
 
Ok.. Understood - why would disabling this have the impact it did then ? Would another setting have made this difference ? Maybe something cleared when I did a restart?
 
No idea. It seems that consoles are doing a lot of weird stuff in relation to UPNP, as there's an endless stream of random results for different users, with no logical constant. For some people everything works flawlessly out of the box, others have endless NAT issues.
 
so its safe to disable if your just using the router for home use purposes?

UPnP? It depends on the circumstances really. Essentially it's a method of "automatic port forwarding" where devices request to the UPnP device (the router) a specific port to be routed to them for a duration of time. Game consoles primarily rely on UPnP due to their usage of peer to peer communications for voice chats, etc which are direct and aren't negotiated by an intermediate server.

There have been security concerns with regards to UPnP as malicious software can use the protocol to expose ports on devices to the web bypassing the inherent security NAT provides - but this really comes down to knowing the software on your devices, making sure good anti-virus software is enabled where it's needed and having overall good common sense online.

I personally leave it on for the convenience aspect.
 
UPnP? It depends on the circumstances really. Essentially it's a method of "automatic port forwarding" where devices request to the UPnP device (the router) a specific port to be routed to them for a duration of time. Game consoles primarily rely on UPnP due to their usage of peer to peer communications for voice chats, etc which are direct and aren't negotiated by an intermediate server.

There have been security concerns with regards to UPnP as malicious software can use the protocol to expose ports on devices to the web bypassing the inherent security NAT provides - but this really comes down to knowing the software on your devices, making sure good anti-virus software is enabled where it's needed and having overall good common sense online.

I personally leave it on for the convenience aspect.
So it helps with games and such? Because me and my sons play alot of games online ps4/xbox
 
So it helps with games and such? Because me and my sons play alot of games online ps4/xbox

Games are the most common usage of UPnP in a consumer setting, so yeah there's definitely a benefit to using it. Alternatively, if you prefer security over convenience, you could configure port forwarding rules to allow the Xbox Live and PlayStation Network ports to reach the appropriate consoles.
 
Am running Merlin 378.51 beta where you can choose NAT loopback - Merlin, ASUS or disabled

I do not fully understand NAT loopback, but I have has an issue recently where my son cannot hear one of his PS3 friends playing Destiny - the error message is 'NAT error' in the game.

I disabled NAT acceleration based on a google search with no joy, and have tried the Merlin and ASUS NAT loopback settings - problem still existed. I tried disable NAT loopback on the off chance, and it has resolved the issue..

Anyone have a suggestion as to why ? will I break anything else by disabling this ? I do not access my local LAN from outside - apart from via the synology quick connect - have not tested it, but NAS does not report any issues

Thanks in advance

Concerning the NAT error on your PS3...
If he's seeing NAT Error next to the player's name, then the NAT issue isn't on your side...its on the other player's side.

As for UPnP...
I've had this enabled for as long as I've had routers that support it.

On one hand, there is a security risk to this because the protocol doesen't have an authentication mechanism and any program can request a port to be forwarded to it. This means a virus or malicious software could also use UPnP to open holes through the router.

But here's where I take this with a "...grain of salt"

UPnP is a system targeted at consumers. While an enterprise network can have thousands of devices behind a firewall, the reality is a home network will only have a dozen or so devices; I consider my own network an extreme case and I only have 30 devices. UPnP allows programs already inside your network to ask for connections to be opened (and bypass NAT routing) to the outside Internet. A program outside your home network (on the internet) can't ask UPnP to open a hole though your router though.

The question to ask is "What is the likelihood that one of my computers would get a virus that uses UPnP?" A virus or malware app is going to target a vulnerability in an application first and then try to use UPnP to make it easier to remotely access the PC. Malware has many different fallback methods of connecting though, so if UPnP doesn't work, it may fallback to HTTP or even IRC. It may make things a bit more difficult because the malware app would need to use a relay point (another infected server with holes in it's firewall), but this is trival.

My opinion, and plenty of others will disagree with me, is that you need to protect your computers. Make sure every PC is running AntiVirus software; Microsoft's free antivirus and antimalware program is pretty good and its what I use. More importantly, make sure all your PCs are automatically updating (both Windows and Mac). While some new viruses will target vulnerabilities that haven't been discovered yet, virus writers a lazy. Most of the people infected today are exploited through security issues that were patched more than 12 months in the past.

Apart from that, I'd consider using a DNS service like Commodo or OpenDNS. Your router supports these providers and they actively block URLs that contain malicious content (I use Google DNS, but it doesn't do this today). I've also enabled AiProtect on my router. I'm not sure how effective it is yet, but it's using Trend Micro's deep packet inspection system to try and block malicious traffic before it hits your PC.

I think UPnP solves A LOT of hard problems for consumers. It makes hard problems, like Double-NAT, go away for complex programs. I ultimately think it's benefits outweigh the security drawbacks, but only if you practice good user habits (antivirus and patching).

- Atoshi
 
I have had UPNP disable on my routers for as long as i can remeber and on my consoles, and i dont foward/trigger any ports for the consoles, and never had any issues other then the ps3/ps4 have terribad download speeds, unlike Xbox servers.
 
Am running Merlin 378.51 beta where you can choose NAT loopback - Merlin, ASUS or disabled

I do not fully understand NAT loopback, but I have has an issue recently where my son cannot hear one of his PS3 friends playing Destiny - the error message is 'NAT error' in the game.

I disabled NAT acceleration based on a google search with no joy, and have tried the Merlin and ASUS NAT loopback settings - problem still existed. I tried disable NAT loopback on the off chance, and it has resolved the issue..

Anyone have a suggestion as to why ? will I break anything else by disabling this ? I do not access my local LAN from outside - apart from via the synology quick connect - have not tested it, but NAS does not report any issues

Thanks in advance

In the PS3 menu, go to Settings, Network Settings and run the Internet Connection Test, if your Nat Tpye is type 2, your connection is working correctly and the problem is with the other player, if it is type 3, then make sure you have either UPNP enabled or the correct ports forwarded if UPNP is disabled.
 
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Thank you guys - interesting - I do have uPNP enabled - but what is weird is that I have tested this, and it seems that my sons issue is resolved if I disable NAT loopback - Atoshi - everyone else can hear the person my son cannot hear who shows NAT issues - yet I disabled NAT loopback and restarted router and suddenly he is there.. I had tried the 'Merlin' and 'ASUS' NAT settings with no impact - I will do further testing but this does seem strange..
 
Am running Merlin 378.51 beta where you can choose NAT loopback - Merlin, ASUS or disabled

I do not fully understand NAT loopback, but I have has an issue recently where my son cannot hear one of his PS3 friends playing Destiny - the error message is 'NAT error' in the game.

I disabled NAT acceleration based on a google search with no joy, and have tried the Merlin and ASUS NAT loopback settings - problem still existed. I tried disable NAT loopback on the off chance, and it has resolved the issue..

Anyone have a suggestion as to why ? will I break anything else by disabling this ? I do not access my local LAN from outside - apart from via the synology quick connect - have not tested it, but NAS does not report any issues

Thanks in advance

I personally leave it on for the convenience aspect.
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