Need advice on a NAS

[roldogg]

I've posted on here before for some advice, but I'm posting again because I'm suffering from "paralysis through analysis." I'm looking to buy a NAS, I've done a lot of research (probably too much), but as I've been looking into the functionality, speeds, and other options but more keep being released. Seems to be overwhelming. I'm looking for a NAS that I can use for backup of my data, has the ability to backup to other cloud services, but will also be able to store 4K video files that I can stream to multiple devices on my network. I'd like something that could be setup with a RAID0 format, for performance benefits, but also either mirrors my data or uses parity, so I'm guessing a RAID5 or RAID10 device. I want some kind of protection from losing my data if a drive goes out, but any important data I could have backed up to a cloud. QNAP seems to have a good lineup of products, but I don't want to invest in something I don't need. It seems like the market has become saturated with products making it more difficult to make a decision on what to buy. Would anyone have a quick suggestion on a NAS I could look at? I'm thinking about 8TB of data, but if its mirrored, 16TB of data, or 4 4TB WD Red Drives.

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[System Error Message]

There are 2 kinds of NAS, the first is using an x86 server and the second is embedded. If you have the skill using a server would give you the best gains and flexibility since you could just install any software you like and any configuration you like. I use aerofs to sync files in my cluster and i dont rely on a central file management system. server based NAS can also be the fastest and adding a GPU or using compatible IGP allows real time encoding. By using aerofs and also remote access i can backup files both automatically and manually so that important stuff is available to every machine i want while some things dont get copied. I have RAID arrays on different machines. Using the zfs file system allows you to use ram as cache which speeds things up and allows encryption and compression. Its easy to make an x86 server NAS because the performance and capabilities are easy since you can just get the CPU, board, RAM and drives you want.

For embedded NAS i have no clue about which products do what and they usually have much more limits so its a lot more effort just to buy them. They all have different hardware and only some can be upgraded in terms of ram or even CPU. The issue about embedded NAS is that the NAS/drive can go out while you are restoring your RAID such that with RAID 5 while it is rebuilding and another drives goes out than all your data could be lost. Some purchase multiple embedded NAS and just sync data between them. Embedded NAS also sometimes suffer from compatibility issues.

 

[stevech]

Warning, preaching
New NAS, be sure to buy what you need to BACK UP the NAS. RAID is not a backup. Especially for foul-ups more likely than a drive failure.

I and others suggest looking closely at Synology, QNAP, and newbie-in-NAS, ASUS. Look first at the NAS OS and ease of admin, quality apps and backup tools. Don't buy solely on high bytes/sec for an ideal (rare) use case.

 

[thiggins]

What is hanging you up? Your requirements can be met by pretty much any RAID5 class NAS today. If cloud backup is a must, then choose your cloud service and look for products that support it.

BUT, with 8 TB, cloud backup will take a LONG time, not only for backup, but think of recovery.

I would add NETGEAR ReadyNAS to Stevech's list (and he means ASUSTOR, not ASUS).

4x4TB RAID5 will give you ~12TB actual storage. RAID 6 or 10 will yield 8TB.

 

[TonyH]

What is hanging you up? Your requirements can be met by pretty much any RAID5 class NAS today. If cloud backup is a must, then choose your cloud service and look for products that support it.

BUT, with 8 TB, cloud backup will take a LONG time, not only for backup, but think of recovery.

I would add NETGEAR ReadyNAS to Stevech's list (and he means ASUSTOR, not ASUS).

4x4TB RAID5 will give you ~12TB actual storage. RAID 6 or 10 will yield 8TB.

I suffer from cloudphobia, LOL! I have to control my own back up... My important back up is kept in a small vault
in-ground in my basement which is done every week. Most important I have burned DVD (original plus duplicate)
Family album is the thing, others, my lawyer, accountant, bank have them. Simple man does not have much to back up.

 

[stevech]

Many of us home/SOHO types do NAS backups on-going, to a USB3 drive or eSATA, or several. Mine is setup to (a) auto-backup key folders once a day and (b) several times a day backup to the NAS "time backup" where the last 6 months of VIP folders and files is stored. The latter is on a different volume than the straight backup. And VVIP files are also backed up to a big SD card in the NAS. All backups are automated.
My main desktop PC gets drive-imaged by Acronis to the NAS every week or so. And cloned to a 2nd drive every month (protection from an OS virus). Automated. Then there's Centered Systems' Second Copy on my main desktop - it does very frequent backups of selected folders - to the NAS. So I don't have to re-do hours of work if I screw up a file (documents, source code).

I work at home (SOHO), software/firmware development so this backup stuff is serious. So is the backup for my personal financial info- and that's encrypted by me. Never goes to a cloud server.

I don't use a cloud service for backup. To slow. I do use ADrive for sharing w/password access. It's 100GB for $25/yr.

 

[roldogg]

I work from home as well and transitioned recently to have everything hosted somewhere else instead of me having to maintain the server, backups, SQL database, etc. All my info is just personal info. I have a few parts left over from my latest upgrade, and Newegg has WD Red drives on sale. If I decide to build my own vs buy a pre-built NAS, what's the benefit/drawback of having a software based RAID vs a RAID controller? I just installed an Asus X99 Deluxe MB in my system and it has RAID capabilities, but I've also read about people building a dedicated server and using a RAID controller. The X99 Deluxe can run a RAID system when using the Intel SATA ports on the MB, but not when using the ASUS SATA ports. Would this still be considered as a software based RAID since the Intel SATA ports can either be used to run logical drives or setup in a RAID configuration? This has always confused me.

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[stevech]

I found that a DIY NAS (which I did, using the best open source NAS OS I could find) - the DIY was very terse and crude in comparison to the suite of software that comes with a commerical NAS like Synology/QNAP have. There is much more to a NAS than pushing bytes out the LAN>

But to each...

 

[sfx2000]

I found that a DIY NAS (which I did, using the best open source NAS OS I could find) - the DIY was very terse and crude in comparison to the suite of software that comes with a commerical NAS like Synology/QNAP have. There is much more to a NAS than pushing bytes out the LAN

Concur - there's some good pre-built packages for DIY - freeNAS comes to mind, and there is always that hard core approach for Linux and BSD oriented folks.

QNAP and Synology have done a fantastic job for user-friendly approaches... and kinda sad that MSFT abandoned their SoHo approach on Windows Home Server - they had some good ideas there...

 

[stevech]

Yeah, FreeNAS is what I had tried. It was very minimalistic and required too much time & attention for a SOHO or personal setting, per me.
Mainly though, it was way too short on utilities, backup tools, servers, etc.

But if all you want to do is serve files, a DIY might do, but probably won't cost less. And less so if you count your time building then sustaining it.

(Microsoft added to the disappointment now in Win 10 by dropping Media Center. )

 

[sfx2000]

Yeah, FreeNAS is what I had tried. It was very minimalistic and required too much time & attention for a SOHO or personal setting, per me.
Mainly though, it was way too short on utilities, backup tools, servers, etc.

But if all you want to do is serve files, a DIY might do, but probably won't cost less. And less so if you count your time building then sustaining it.

One of the main reasons for considering a pre-built NAS (QNAP/Synology/ReadNAS/Asustor) is that the vendors have done all the design and integration work on their platforms, and they have the support staff on hand to help sort things on setup and if things go wrong...

 

[sfx2000]

(Microsoft added to the disappointment now in Win 10 by dropping Media Center. )

Saw that they were dropped MC from the desktop OS - I'm wondering though... is MC something that they plan to integrate directly into the XBoxOne, which might be a better place for that particular software package.

 

[L&LD]

roldogg,

With your requirements QNAP or Synology would be the only two worth looking at (as I repeat to my customers). In your case, a 6 Bay or larger NAS (times two, the second is the backup) is what I would recommend.

Use RAID 10 for performance if you must, but test it first in your environment. If the additional performance is not needed, I would be running 2 arrays of 3 disks in RAID5 myself (for each NAS box you buy).

Buy the biggest hdd's you can get today (and match the number across the two NAS boxes but, use different hdd's brands in each box).

The second NAS box, once it is fully setup, tested and synced locally, can be setup in another location if possible to provide even more safety from theft, fire, etc. and kept in sync, of course.

Yes, this gets very expensive very fast (and on top of this, I would still be using external USB3 drives to backup to too). This will depend on your available funds, your valuation of the data and the value you place on having your data immediately available (the second NAS box).

DIY and the other options are just a way to make yourself crazy, imo. QNAP and Synology have figured out what a NAS should be and have been offering it for years now.

 

[stevech]

save $.
Two-bay. good enough for SOHO/personal.
+ USB3 backup drive(s).

 

[sfx2000]

save $.
Two-bay. good enough for SOHO/personal.
+ USB3 backup drive(s).

One should always have a layered approach to data storage...

Online is local on the PC's

Near Line - NAS

Offline - Back up the NAS and the local PC's

(and as an aside, Router/AP's - router's are not NAS boxen or backups, personally, I'd like to see USB/eSATA ports expunged from these devices, IMHO, as while they can do it, they, for the most part, cannot do it well enough)

 

[sfx2000]

roldogg,

With your requirements QNAP or Synology would be the only two worth looking at (as I repeat to my customers). In your case, a 6 Bay or larger NAS (times two, the second is the backup) is what I would recommend.

There's probably a couple of other vendors to add to that list- ReadyNAS and Thecus - and the emergent ASUSstor...

Use RAID 10 for performance if you must, but test it first in your environment. If the additional performance is not needed, I would be running 2 arrays of 3 disks in RAID5 myself (for each NAS box you buy).

Without sounding pedantic - RAID5 is a horrible solution - if a drive fails, if all the drives are the same age, and have been spinning hot, likely the rebuild will take out another drive in the RAID set, and many people have been burned by this...

And RAID10 crushes RAID5/6 in write performance...

Buy the biggest hdd's you can get today (and match the number across the two NAS boxes but, use different hdd's brands in each box).

Buy from different batches if same vendor...

The second NAS box, once it is fully setup, tested and synced locally, can be setup in another location if possible to provide even more safety from theft, fire, etc. and kept in sync, of course.

Layered approach is always good - just keep in mind, use the second NAS as backup only...

And one might consider - NAS1 for higher performance... and NAS2 mainly for storage... but always have a backup plan...

Yes, this gets very expensive very fast (and on top of this, I would still be using external USB3 drives to backup to too). This will depend on your available funds, your valuation of the data and the value you place on having your data immediately available (the second NAS box).

DIY and the other options are just a way to make yourself crazy, imo. QNAP and Synology have figured out what a NAS should be and have been offering it for years now.

Indeed - there are diminishing returns on layers of data redundancy...

 

[stevech]

My protection from theft is an automated backup to USB3 and keep those out of sight.

I don't have one, but I've seen fireproof/theftproof iron boxes with cable bulkheads for USB. So far, that seems an overkill. Until it happens.
Neighbor's fire was caused by oven on self-cleaning cycle and she was napping.

 

[htismaqe]

Saw that they were dropped MC from the desktop OS - I'm wondering though... is MC something that they plan to integrate directly into the XBoxOne, which might be a better place for that particular software package.

That's ultimately what they intend to do, yes. In fact, they want Windows 10 to ultimately be a front end for Xbox, not just for audio/video media but also for games.

 

[htismaqe]

One should always have a layered approach to data storage...

Online is local on the PC's

Near Line - NAS

Offline - Back up the NAS and the local PC's

That's pretty much my approach.

• Personal data specific to one user (e.g documents, pictures, some music)
  • stored locally on PC, sync'd in real time to NAS, NAS backed up in real-time to external drive with "recycle bin" (keeps copies of deleted/overwritten files with revisions)
• Shared non-critical data (e.g music, movies) or app-specific files (e.g. VirtualBox VMs) --
  • stored on NAS, backed up to external drive nightly
• PC backups and machine images -->
  • stored on NAS, backed up to external drive weekly

 

[stevech]

That's ultimately what they intend to do, yes. In fact, they want Windows 10 to ultimately be a front end for Xbox, not just for audio/video media but also for games.

That's from the consumer viewpoint.
But MS is trying (we hope) to re-discover where their revenue comes from. Corporate / enterprise sales, not windows PCs or tablets.