New routers vs older smartphones

[Lenny90]

Hi all

This is probably a silly question, but how do I determine what realistic wireless download speeds can my devices reach?

If I use the RT2600ac for example, what would be the average download speed (ignoring the usual environmental effects) on a:
- Samsung S4 and iphone 6 (both of which I think only have 1x1 radios).
- What would be the increase if I had a 2x2 smartphone?

I want to determine if buying the RT2600AC over the Asus AC-68U makes sense if my current smartphones cannot take advantage of the upper end speeds. But at the same time, I also want to know if I were to upgrade my phones, what improvements I will get.

I see that most new smartphones and majority of laptops only support up to 2x2 mimo, so I wonder if there are other benefits to buying the more expensive Synology.

 

[System Error Message]

Slowest link in the chain. Is it your WAN? Is it your client? is it your router's LAN interface?

With wireless N i find that even 30% of rated speed is generous, i typically get about 10%.
With wireless AC you can expect around 30-50% practical of rated link speeds if conditions are good.

In your case your phones only have 1x1 radios, so with wireless AC can have a max link of 450Mb/s. That means that the phone is the weak link and any wireless AC AP will do well as long as the signals are good on both ends. perhaps a 2x2 wifi AC will do fine with the other question being your WAN speeds.

Purely from a link perspective, speeds are always on the lowest in the chain. You could have a 4x4 wifi AP but speeds will still be around 1x1. If you had a 2x2 phone with that wifi AP it will be 2x2.

The 1x1, 2x2 etc dont add up, they are just the number of channels per radio. For example broadcoms 4x4 has 4 channels on both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz (not like you can get the rated 600Mb/s on 2.4Ghz as you'd need a broadcom x4 client). Wifi AC standard is 3 channels, wifi wave 2 standard is 4 channels max so anything more is proprietary (like 3 and 4 channel wifi N, broadcom xstream, etc). Dont consider the numbers 1x1, 2x2, they dont add up. a 2x2 client has 2 channels, 3x3 client 3 channels. Its all to do with the number of channels on a radio not the numbers shown on the devices.

Another thing is that phones dont use performance mode for wifi, so their download speeds are slower and higher latencies too but this is because they are designed for power saving so they send and receive packets telling them to send/receive data less often.

 

[joegreat]

If I use the RT2600ac for example, what would be the average download speed (ignoring the usual environmental effects) on a:
- Samsung S4 and iphone 6 (both of which I think only have 1x1 radios).
- What would be the increase if I had a 2x2 smartphone?

I am quite sure that the smartphone devices are the weakest link here:
- My good old Samsung Galaxy S (first version!) has only 65 Mbit link on 2.4 GHz
- Samsung Tab (one - first release) connects with 150 Mbit on 2.4 and 5 GHz
- The iPhone 6 of my wife connects with 886 Mbit to my router with 5 GHz.
- My OnePlus 3T connects only with 443 Mbit (same as the Google Home device).
- and so on...

Of course the overall transfer speed is also dependent of the internet server or local NAS and the connectivity (your ISP line or LAN speed).
Over my 1 GBit home network I get only ~500 Mbit from my NAS and from the internet only 150 Mbit (to be upgraded to 250 Mbit soon).

At the end all depends on your needs: e.g. a full HD movie streaming needs only around 5 Mbit bandwidth - any old WLAN device can do the job!

 

[Lenny90]

Appreciate the feedback System Error Message and joegreat.

Yes, the clients are the bottleneck. I am still using an old N300 router and was looking to upgrade to AC.

- The iPhone 6 of my wife connects with 886 Mbit to my router with 5 GHz.

Isn't 2x2 radio required for connection up to 886 Mbps? Also, this just the link speed correct? Since you mention that you can actually only get 500 Mbps from your NAS.

I just read a post by thiggins where he says 4x4 has higher receive gain, so will produce higher throughput with medium to weak signals and may slightly improve effective range.

I need to decide if this justifies the higher cost of the Synology over the Asus.

 

[System Error Message]

Appreciate the feedback System Error Message and joegreat.

Yes, the clients are the bottleneck. I am still using an old N300 router and was looking to upgrade to AC.



Isn't 2x2 radio required for connection up to 886 Mbps? Also, this just the link speed correct? Since you mention that you can actually only get 500 Mbps from your NAS.

I just read a post by thiggins where he says 4x4 has higher receive gain, so will produce higher throughput with medium to weak signals and may slightly improve effective range.

I need to decide if this justifies the higher cost of the Synology over the Asus.

Thats more to do with the rf design. Just because its 4x4 doesnt make it better, its just newer so the chips and design tend to be better.

If you are upgrading from wifi N you should. You have a wide range to consider too with a minimum of 2x2 wifi AC or MU-MIMO 4x4 wifi AC. Some 2x2 Wifi AC are MU-MIMO as well.

2 channels give a link speed of 886Mb/ws for wireless AC, its just the link speed not the practical. The practical speeds are much less. I once pushed 90% of the link speed through but with significant packet losses. Your practical speeds will depend on many things like interference and traffic. When i say practical % i mean of rated link speed. So if your device gets 100Mb/s out of 433Mb/s than it will get to use 50Mb/s of the 100Mb/s link if conditions are good if the phone is further away.

 

[thiggins]

Link rate is determined by slowest device in client <> AP chain. But actual throughput depends how efficiently that link is managed and how good the signal is.

Data shows stepping up from N to AC will push the RvR curve up, even if link rate doesn't change.
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wir...oes-an-ac-router-improve-n-device-performance

Go with at least an AC1900 class (3X3) router. That should provide a noticeable improvement. Going from three stream to four stream, maybe not so much.
https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wir...32896-will-a-new-ac-router-bring-you-wifi-joy

 

[Lenny90]

Go with at least an AC1900 class (3X3) router. That should provide a noticeable improvement. Going from three stream to four stream, maybe not so much.

Well, I'll be upgrading from a N router, so anything will be an improvement! Given that the newer routers are 4x4 and comes with better chips and design as per System Error Message's post , I'm tempted to go with them for a bit of future-proofing.

 

[thiggins]

Well, I'll be upgrading from a N router, so anything will be an improvement! Given that the newer routers are 4x4 and comes with better chips and design as per System Error Message's post , I'm tempted to go with them for a bit of future-proofing.

My advice is don't try to future proof Wi-Fi. Rate of change continues to be high.

Stay a generation behind, set a budget and be prepared to upgrade in 1-3 years. There are plenty of bargains to be had in factory refurbished or Amazon Warehouse deals for under $200.

 

[Lenny90]

My advice is don't try to future proof Wi-Fi. Rate of change continues to be high.

Stay a generation behind, set a budget and be prepared to upgrade in 1-3 years. There are plenty of bargains to be had in factory refurbished or Amazon Warehouse deals for under $200.

Tim, where I'm from (Singapore), the best ranked AC1900 router Asus AC68u is about USD 178 vs the best ranked AC2600 Synolgy rt 2600AC is USD 233. Amazon has much better pricing but for electronics, I prefer to buy local for warranty reasons.

Given that the Asus is almost 4 years old, would you still recommend it over something newer?

 

[thiggins]

I agree with buying local in your case. Warranty and return policy are very important when buying WiFi. Some routers just don't work well with some devices and you need to be able to try the product.

The ASUS AC68U and NETGEAR R7000 Nighthawk are still good routers and either will provide an improvement over an N300 router.