Noob - Whole Property WiFi Coverage

[MattGoose]

I'm going to apologize right out of the gate. I've done all the reading and research on this that I can - but I will never come up with the right answer on my own. I need help.

I've looked at everything - I've read router reviews, mesh networking reviews - consumer and enterprise. I am now know more about wired v. wireless backhaul than I ever thought I might need to.

I just cut the Comcast cord and picked up FIOS GB - and cut my cost by more than half. We are a normal family - 2 Roku, 1 Fire TV, Ecobee, a slew of Chromecast Audios, a constant rotation of cell phones and tablets. The usual.

My house is small, but spread out among 3 floors (basement, first, second). I've never been able to get great coverage throughout the house with a single router and I don't get any signal on the patio in far corner of the backyard. I'd like to improve coverage throughout the house, and more importantly, extend usable coverage to the patio - enough to stream HD so I can watch football out there in the fall We do want to be able to roam the house and yard.

Currently, the FIOS equipment is split. The fiber goes into the basement into the ONT (I think?) and I run an ethernet cable upstairs to the Quantum Gateway. The performance of the Gateway is ok.... My house was built in the '50's and is not a great environment for wireless signal. I rent the Gateway and if I can return that and not give my $$ to FIOS all the better.

We have good coax drops through most of the house coming back to the basement next to the ONT. We are also going to be doing some fairly extensive renovations in the coming months so I can likely run new cable most places in the house.

I have to consider both cost and WAF. I think I'm going to have to put *something* outside to get coverage to the patio. I've been looking at some of the Unifi solutions as a step up from Amplifi.

I have to keep the ONT (I think?), but everything else is up in the air. Whatever I buy, I'd like to be able to install and setup now and then drop wired backhaul when we do the renovations.

Help?!?!

 

[CaptainSTX]

In the short term your best option for the inside is buy one or more APs from FIOS that utilize MOCA. The Actiontec routers that FIOS used to supply have MOCA built in so you only need to buy one or more APs that will be fed using the coaxial in your home. Just connect a coaxial cable to the F-fitting on the router using a spliter if necessary.

Longer term as part of your remodel pull Ethernet cables to the rooms/ areas where you need better Wifi and install APs.

As for the outside location and wanting to stream HD video run Ethernet to the patio. Cable can be installed without trenching just use a spade to cut a slit in the sod, push the cable in and it is done. If you have to go under a driveway you will need to hire someone that does drop burials for CATV to get your cable under. A sidewalk isn't a big obstacle and by watching videos on YouTube you should find a simple and relatively easy way to DIY. Just use cable suitable for direct burial and install grounding blocks on both ends.

 

[degrub]

"install grounding blocks on both ends." That is a great way to set up a ground loop if there is any potential difference between earthing points. Earth at one end or the other.

 

[MattGoose]

In the short term your best option for the inside is buy one or more APs from FIOS that utilize MOCA. The Actiontec routers that FIOS used to supply have MOCA built in so you only need to buy one or more APs that will be fed using the coaxial in your home. Just connect a coaxial cable to the F-fitting on the router using a spliter if necessary.

Longer term as part of your remodel pull Ethernet cables to the rooms/ areas where you need better Wifi and install APs.

As for the outside location and wanting to stream HD video run Ethernet to the patio. Cable can be installed without trenching just use a spade to cut a slit in the sod, push the cable in and it is done. If you have to go under a driveway you will need to hire someone that does drop burials for CATV to get your cable under. A sidewalk isn't a big obstacle and by watching videos on YouTube you should find a simple and relatively easy way to DIY. Just use cable suitable for direct burial and install grounding blocks on both ends.

Thanks for the input!

One thing that I maybe should have emphasized a bit more. I'd like to install a Chromecast outside on the patio. The way Chromecast handles grouping means they all need to be on the same network. I reached out to Google for more information about what, exactly, that requires but they just suggested I buy Google Wifi. Right now, it works just fine with the CAs on the 2.4Ghz band and my phone on the 5Ghz - but I'm not sure what other flexibility.

I can trench to the back patio no problem, but I still need wireless out there for the Chromecast, they are too small for a wired connection.

My understanding is that a mesh system is a different thing than independent access points throughout the house. I'm not sure if what you describe is mesh or not... I want to be able to roam through the house as seamlessly as possible - do multiple pieces of Verizon equipment allow you to do that?

Thanks!

 

[CaptainSTX]

"install grounding blocks on both ends." That is a great way to set up a ground loop if there is any potential difference between earthing points. Earth at one end or the other.

I didn't say that he should establish a seperate ground at the patio location. You would connect your ground block to the ground that had been extended to the patio using an insulated conductor. This should eliminate any potential for objectional currents. If more than one electrical circuit was installed then a seperate ground rod would be required in addition to the insulated grounding conductor between locations.

 

[MattGoose]

Ok - so I don't think that I'm going to be running a cable out to the patio. I would still need to go wireless at some point to get the Chromecast online, so I'm not sure I see a benefit to doing it on the patio versus up at the house where I don't need to trench or run anything.

I've read 19 different reviews about which wireless mesh networking system is best, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus out there. Some say Google, some Amplifi, some Eero, Netgear, etc.

Given my source speed, high throughput of the wireless components is important...

Ubiquiti has outdoor components, but no one else seems to. I reached out to them to see if their outdoor wireless components will work with their consumer products from Amplifi.

Any other input would be great. THanks!

 

[yk101]

How big is the property you are trying to cover?

Depending on the answer, I would probably recommend getting one of signal mapping applications and figure out where your signal is dropping before thinking about extenders. Sometimes simply moving the router to a more central location fixes the problem.

 

[thiggins]

Captain's advice is correct. Run Ethernet from a central point where the router will be located to the spots where you want to place access points. Best option would be runs to each floor at each side of and center of the floor.

Once you have an Ethernet backbone, backhaul, access point (AP) selection becomes much simpler because you don't need to be as concerned about range. AP Control, particularly, channel and power level becomes more important.

Think of mesh Wi-Fi systems as a collection of access points that can connect to each other wirelessly so that Ethernet doesn't have to be run to each one. But in that case, Wi-Fi bandwidth is shared between devices and connecting the APs (mesh nodes).

Many mesh systems can also be connected together via Ethernet. This leaves all bandwidth for serving devices. When you use Ethernet to connect mesh nodes, then the systems no longer is a "mesh" system, but becomes an automatially managed multiple AP sytem.

 

[MichaelCG]

Ubiquiti has outdoor components, but no one else seems to. I reached out to them to see if their outdoor wireless components will work with their consumer products from Amplifi.

Directly as an integrated system...they don't work together. The UniFi line "can" do some limited mesh. Their UniFi-M products I think are outdoor related and natively support wireless mesh. Some of the UniFi UAP series can do wireless back-haul, but not true mesh with a little bit of extra effort. I have never used the wireless back-haul features, just read about them.

 

[sfx2000]

Rule of thumb - 2.4GHz -- 1500 square feet, 5GHz, 750 square feet for good coverage and speed in free-space on a single floor..

Walls - 5dB hit in sheetrock, 7.5 dB hit in plaster/lattice/chickenwire in 2.4GHz... and that hit plays both ways, client and AP.

In SoCal - we have a lot of Stucco/Stick built home - so play the same thing as plaster/lattice there if trying to light up the backyard/patio...

AP's generally will do about 20-25 dBm Tx power, clients are around 16-20 dBm - mobiles/tablets will be on the lower side...

Location of the AP's - this is key, put them where the traffic is

Multi-level - most consumer AP's have lower gain antenna's - which is good, as high gain flattens the pattern there...