patch panel neccessary ?????

[LaFemme69]

Hopefully I am posting in the correct forum......

Recently found out that my phone jacks are wired with cat5 and/or cat5e cables......this gives me an idea of installing ethernet drops + phone lines in the rooms of my house with the existing cat5 cables to minimize wifi/powerline/moca or range extender/point-of-access usage where possible.

been scouring the internet and read many forums, luckily for me that it's possible. However firstly, none of the forums is from smallnetbuilder and 2ndly, they all mention of a patch panel........I want to get opinions on here if I would ever benefit from a PP for my setup and use.

planned to set up for 4 bedrooms (1 being an office) + kitchen + family room + living room + possibly 1 for the unfinished basement. so total of possible 8 ethernet drops.

I have a cable modem + router + 8-port gigabit ethernet switch. i have a few setups without a PP in mind:
(1) bring the modem to the basement where the cable internet comes into the house, connect the switch to the modem and put rj-45 plugs on those cat5 cables to plug into the switch; 1 of which will run into 1 of the bedrooms/office where a router will be placed.

(2) modem in the basement connected to a router where those cat5 cables are connected into, 1 of which will run into 1 of the bedrooms/office where a switch is placed.

NOTE: (1) in either options, 2 of the cat5 wires will still be wired to the phone outlet and the remaining pairs of the cables connect to a rj-45 plugs + (2) all existing phone jacks/wallplates will be replaced with dual port jacks, phone+ethernet.

will any of these options work, which would work well?

or do i really need a PP? all forums recommended a PP mainly to (1) keep things tidy giving a professional look (2) give stability to the cable, prevent breakage, (3) only need when running more than 8 lines..........imho, (1) I don't think it will be any tidier since I still need to use extra patch cables to go from PP to a hub/switch in addition to those cat5 cables PLUS mounting on a bulky rack.....(2) once i have it set up, i won't be moving anything anywhere nor fiddle around with the connections so I am not worrying about breaking the cables.....(3) I will only be running max 8 lines.....PP nowadays have the lowest of 12 ports so 4 are useless.........I prefer to avoid using PP, of course unless I really 'need' one to have things work.

thank you so much.

kd

 

[SnakeByte]

Patch panels are not required, but you should at least use modular connectors on each end of the runs and use patch cables to connect to your equipment. Make sure the modular connectors are rated at the same category as the cable.

Something like these:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IO3HEN6/?tag=snbforums-20

Back in the Cat-3 days it was okay to crimp your own ends directly onto the runs, but to meet the stricter cat-5 and above requirements, It's likely you won't be able to do this to spec.

Why do you not want to use a patch panel though? Besides 1) and 2), you also can label the connections, and if you ever plan on selling your home, having something that doesn't look like a rat's nest will be a bonus.

 

[LaFemme69]

Patch panels are not required, but you should at least use modular connectors on each end of the runs and use patch cables to connect to your equipment. Make sure the modular connectors are rated at the same category as the cable.

Something like these:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IO3HEN6/?tag=snbforums-20

Back in the Cat-3 days it was okay to crimp your own ends directly onto the runs, but to meet the stricter cat-5 and above requirements, It's likely you won't be able to do this to spec.

Why do you not want to use a patch panel though? Besides 1) and 2), you also can label the connections, and if you ever plan on selling your home, having something that doesn't look like a rat's nest will be a bonus.

thank you for your response.

that's why I want some opinions........you are right, I've seen some of the setups. although they are neat and tidy but having bulk of groups of extra cables turn me off.

Where would I use patch cables, from the wall to my devices @ the other ends? I thought since each cable is connected to the router/switch on the ends in the basement, the other end i can just use straight through cables to connect devices to the jacks.

I don't know much about those modular connectors, I can just go into the store and ask for modules for cat5e cables.....good enough?

also, what is the difference b/w T568A & T568B wiring? which one would be advantageous to use and I should choose?

thank you again.

Katie D.

 

[coxhaus]

There are 2 types of CAT5e wire. One is twisted CAT5e wire which is used for patch cables. Then there is solid core wire used for wire in the walls. The solid core wire is meant to be stationary and not moved. If you bend solid core wire too much it will break inside the jacket. It is best to terminate solid core wire in a patch panel to stop movement.

Phone wires even if CAT5e will all be terminated at one point which will not work for computers. You need to find where all the wires come together toward the main phone box. You may be able to splice in at that point and insert a patch panel. Then you would be able to bring down a bunch of patch cables down from the attic to a shelve where your switch is.

Using 568a or 568b does not matter as long as you use the same one every where. If you wire a 568a to a 568b you will end up with a cross over cable. I always preferred 568b.

 

[LaFemme69]

There are 2 types of CAT5e wire. One is twisted CAT5e wire which is used for patch cables. Then there is solid core wire used for wire in the walls. The solid core wire is meant to be stationary and not moved. If you bend solid core wire too much it will break inside the jacket. It is best to terminate solid core wire in a patch panel to stop movement.

Phone wires even if CAT5e will all be terminated at one point which will not work for computers. You need to find where all the wires come together toward the main phone box. You may be able to splice in at that point and insert a patch panel. Then you would be able to bring down a bunch of patch cables down from the attic to a shelve where your switch is.

Using 568a or 568b does not matter as long as you use the same one every where. If you wire a 568a to a 568b you will end up with a cross over cable. I always preferred 568b.

I do see the box where the cat5 cables come into the basement, how can i determine if they wired a or b?

when you say ....'as long as you use the same wiring everywhere'.....when I put the jackets/plugs on the ends of the cables (in the basement and the rooms), that both ends have to be wired the same way, either a or b?

once the ends in the basement have the jackets/plugs on and plugged into either switch/hub/router/modem, I don't plan to move it anywhere or fiddle with it so it will be stationary and i am not worried about bending or breaking the core wire.......that's why I don't think i would need a PP......unless i am wrong thinking that way.

thank you.

kate

 

[CaptainSTX]

You don't need to use a patch panel. The switch will serve the same purpose.

I don't believe that using the switch to handle both your WAN and LAN will work.

I would in the basement connect your router directly to your modem and then connect your switch to a LAN port on the router and then use the remaining LAN ports on the router and the switch to service the eight locations you want Ethernet connections. If you plan to use WiFi you probably will need to install an AP somewhere more centrally located in your home than the basement.

If the Cat5 was installed for phones you are going to have to reterminate both ends of all cables for data/Ethernet use. You will want to install male plugs on the basement ends to be plugged into LAN ports and on the other end install keystone Cat5 jacks. Use the 568B pinning pattern at both ends of the cables.

While it is possible to use the unused pairs in an Ethernet cable for telephone it is normally not done anymore. It is not standard wiring and may cause you problems in the future, it will make it impossible to use POE and in the future a new owner of your home will be clueless to what you have done.

A simpler solution is just use one location for phone only and install DECT6 cordless phones where ever you want a telephone installed.

 

[coxhaus]

I don't know what you mean by whether your wiring is 568a or 568b because phones don't use this standard unless you are using IP phones. Do you already have RJ45 plugs on your wire? The way you tell whether you have 568a or 568b you look at the pairs in the wire at the plug they are color coded.

Most RJ45 plugs are made for twisted CAT5e wire and don't fit solid core wire very well. They do make a RJ45 male plugs for solid core wire.

If you want to run both Ethernet and phones on the same wire you will need to drop down to 100meg connection. You can not use GIG. I would not do it.

If you are going to use CAT5 cable it is only rated for 100 meg connection. I would try to use it for a printer or make a wireless AP at a 100meg, something other than a workstation. Wireless APs usually don't maintain data streams faster than 100 meg any way but a printer would be my first choice

 

[LaFemme69]

one little minor detail I forgot to mention is that I have VoIP..........awhile back, when I had a security company come in to install the system..........nothing to do with the security system, he rewired my phone line so i can plug and use my VoIP in any phone jacks so I don't have to place it next to the modem......

......being that, i saw downstairs in the basement where the cat5e cables are......i saw 3 of rj45 cables, attached to a little white square box by 2 wires/ rj45 cable and the rest of the twisted pairs are coiled up......assuming it's the phone box, only using a pair of wires/rj45 cable....

my question is:
(1) should I leave those pairs of wires attached to the phone box where they are and put the remaining twisted pairs in an RJ45 male connectors (in 568B configuration) to plug into a router/switch/modem........while reterminate the jacks upstairs to 2 ports, 1 for phone and 1 for ethernet with corresponding wires?

OR

(2) reterminate all ends in the basement, put all the wires into 1 single rj45 connectors and just have 1 female rj45 keystone jack in the rooms.......that way, will I be able to use that 1 port for EITHER phone OR ethernet?

thanx.

katie

 

[CaptainSTX]

one little minor detail I forgot to mention is that I have VoIP..........awhile back, when I had a security company come in to install the system..........nothing to do with the security system, he rewired my phone line so i can plug and use my VoIP in any phone jacks so I don't have to place it next to the modem......

......being that, i saw downstairs in the basement where the cat5e cables are......i saw 3 of rj45 cables, attached to a little white square box by 2 wires/ rj45 cable and the rest of the twisted pairs are coiled up......assuming it's the phone box, only using a pair of wires/rj45 cable....

my question is:
(1) should I leave those pairs of wires attached to the phone box where they are and put the remaining twisted pairs in an RJ45 male connectors (in 568B configuration) to plug into a router/switch/modem........while reterminate the jacks upstairs to 2 ports, 1 for phone and 1 for ethernet with corresponding wires?

OR

(2) reterminate all ends in the basement, put all the wires into 1 single rj45 connectors and just have 1 female rj45 keystone jack in the rooms.......that way, will I be able to use that 1 port for EITHER phone OR ethernet?

thanx.

katie

Phone jacks use 3 Pairs or 6 wires which means a phone jack can support up to three lines.

Ethernet data jacks/plugs terminate all 4 pairs 8 wires.

A jack has to be either Phone or Data it can't be both.

Leave the three cables being used as phone alone. The rest of the cables can be terminated at both ends for data.

If you need to use one of the phone cables for data consider doing what I suggested originally and install a cordless phone.

If you want to use a cable for both phone and data do so at your own peril. Take one pair not used for data and split it out and punch it down on an RJ11 jack for phone and then terminate the other three pairs on an RJ 45 plug at one end and a Keystone RJ45 jack at the other end.

The pair you use for the phone will be one of the pairs normally not used for Ethernet unless you have a POE application. Off hand I don't remember the colors for the pairs not used for data. I'm sure someone else on the site will chip in with which color to use.

 

[LaFemme69]

I've been trying to contact some companies to do the job, just in case i may not be able to DIY.........but cannot be ruled out..... One of them called back and told me i cannot share phone/ethernet via same cat5e due to noise. One line will affect the other, is that true???

 

[CaptainSTX]

I've been trying to contact some companies to do the job, just in case i may not be able to DIY.........but cannot be ruled out..... One of them called back and told me i cannot share phone/ethernet via same cat5e due to noise. One line will affect the other, is that true???

Yes I told you that while it was possible to share you would regret it. Landline phones are analog also the ring voltage can be up to 90 volts. Back in the day when cables were shared 10 mbps was high speed. Now under good circumstances you can get 1000 mbps over Cat 5e cables.

 

[fiberboy]

Patch panel can be used for the use of connecting and routing circuits for monitoring, interconnecting, and testing circuits in a convenient, flexible manner. Get a Cat5e patch panel for more convenient management.http://www.fs.com/c/cat5e-patch-panels_590

 

[KenZ71]

Patch Panel? Personally I don't see the point. Label the wires with a sharpie and some masking tape.

Why do you need phone jacks? Go cordless with one base station hooked into the VOIP.

Most likely each bedroom has a jack like this:

https://www.firefold.com/mobile/cat...3gxKi0ZIa0wR2QReIqHaMI39N8dAVwhIUUhoC5Ofw_wcB

Pop the plate off and snap a pic with your phone then zoom in to see the wire pattern and replicate at the other end where they all congregate to plug into a switch.

Quick and easy connection troubleshooting can be done with a laptop with gigabit ports, if you get gigabit speeds your done, move on to the next. If not review the color coded wires and be sure they all are consistent. Almost any combination will give 10mbps, half decent will give 10mbps. Gigabit is easy enoughwith patience

 

[Scooterit]

Nah if its just a few lines keep it simple.

 

[SnakeByte]

Again, one primary point of the patch panel is to keep the wiring to code. The higher the category, the more twists per wire. When people crimp their own ends on to the cables like in the picture above, they have to untwist the wires, feed the wires into the end, and then crimp down. Doing this means there is some length of the wiring that is not twisted. It takes some skill to get this right, especially for the higher categories.

By punching down to a patch panel, the twists remain intact up to the termination point. Then, as long as you use plugs and patch cables that are rated the same category or higher, the entire circuit remains compliant. Much easier to work with, and also doesn't require a crimp tool, and crimp ends.

 

[sfx2000]

Nah if its just a few lines keep it simple.

Going thru a cable pull and cleanup on the household "RG-58 (CATV/Telephone/Broadband)", did some cleanup on the ethernet as well - not as nice as this layout - but it's an older house... all shiny - but the pic above - nicely done..

 

[CaptainSTX]

Again, one primary point of the patch panel is to keep the wiring to code. The higher the category, the more twists per wire. When people crimp their own ends on to the cables like in the picture above, they have to untwist the wires, feed the wires into the end, and then crimp down. Doing this means there is some length of the wiring that is not twisted. It takes some skill to get this right, especially for the higher categories.

By punching down to a patch panel, the twists remain intact up to the termination point. Then, as long as you use plugs and patch cables that are rated the same category or higher, the entire circuit remains compliant. Much easier to work with, and also doesn't require a crimp tool, and crimp ends.

I agree that it is easier to make good connections using Keystone type female jacks than terminating using male plugs. But with the right tool making good male terminations that are gigabyte capable isn't that hard,

I have no problems with gigabyte terminations when I use Platinum clamshell connectors and the Platinum crimper. I test all my connections using a simple Cat5E continuity tester and then check that the cable is good for Gigabyte speeds using to check my ASUS router and running the cable being tested to a gigabyte capable device. Maybe one in every fifteen connections needs to be redone and that is primarily because sometimes I can go weeks without needing to make a connection and as with most skills practice makes perfect.

Being able to make custom cables to the exact length needed results in neater setups.

 

[wis]

I've been trying to contact some companies to do the job, just in case i may not be able to DIY.........but cannot be ruled out..... One of them called back and told me i cannot share phone/ethernet via same cat5e due to noise. One line will affect the other, is that true???

If you're willing to go 100 MB/s, then you can run a two phone lines (2 pairs) and one Ethernet connection (2 pairs) over a cat 5+ cable. That is a defined configuration for legacy wiring. Barring site specific conditions, coupled noise is not a significant issue.

If you need 1 Gb Ethernet, you need all 4 pairs.

 

[LoneWolf]

The advantage of a patch panel (among other things already mentioned) is that it is tidy and organized. Do it right, test and label it right, and you will always know where every port in the house goes. You can also easily swap out a network switch if it fails, knowing where each patch wire went (which in some cases can be very useful, depending on whether you're using power-over-Ethernet, or eventually getting a more complex configuration).

As there are multiple types of patch panels, it's possible to punch down wires directly to a patch panel --but there are also patch panels that use modular keystone jacks. I have used both, the advantage of the second is that you can color-code keystone jacks. This may or may not be useful for your home scenario, but I did this because where I was working at, I defined devices (e.g., surveillance cameras, wireless access points, data projectors) by the color of the keystone jack.

Example of a modular keystone patch panel (photo courtesy of Panduit):