R7800 and issues with iOS/Apple devices on 5GHz

[garethr]

I've seen a few posts around where people have reported similar issues with Apple devices and the R7800, but no response from Netgear regarding the issue, and whether anything is being done to address it. Right now the R7800 is virtually useless with seemingly any recent Apple devices.

My Apple clients include an iPad Pro, 2013 Macbook Pro, and a couple of iPhone 6S. I have no issues with my other devices.

Essentially when woken from sleep or if wifi is switched off and on quickly on any of the Apple devices, they either refuse to connect to the 5GHz band or take a minute or two of trying to connect before they succeed.

The other (minor) issue is the attached devices reporting is plain wonky on the R7800 - a number of devices appear to fail to report correctly either missing hostnames or even in some cases IP addresses.

I'm on the latest 1.0.0.40 firmware (UK model).

I happen to have two R7800 and this behaviour is consistent between them. I've also used a (Broadcom based) Asus RT-88U which has none of these issues, neither did the Netgear R8000 before it.

I fully except there may be some issues with Apple and there wireless implementation, however given the other Broadcom based products have no issues connecting I'm wondering whether this is a QCA issue, or unique to the R7800.

Has anyone experience similar issues with the R7500v2 for example (which is basically the same hardware)?

 

[NightOwl326]

I've seen a few posts around where people have reported similar issues with Apple devices and the R7800, but no response from Netgear regarding the issue, and whether anything is being done to address it. Right now the R7800 is virtually useless with seemingly any recent Apple devices.

My Apple clients include an iPad Pro, 2013 Macbook Pro, and a couple of iPhone 6S. I have no issues with my other devices.

Essentially when woken from sleep or if wifi is switched off and on quickly on any of the Apple devices, they either refuse to connect to the 5GHz band or take a minute or two of trying to connect before they succeed.

The other (minor) issue is the attached devices reporting is plain wonky on the R7800 - a number of devices appear to fail to report correctly either missing hostnames or even in some cases IP addresses.

I'm on the latest 1.0.0.40 firmware (UK model).

I happen to have two R7800 and this behaviour is consistent between them. I've also used a (Broadcom based) Asus RT-88U which has none of these issues, neither did the Netgear R8000 before it.

I fully except there may be some issues with Apple and there wireless implementation, however given the other Broadcom based products have no issues connecting I'm wondering whether this is a QCA issue, or unique to the R7800.

Has anyone experience similar issues with the R7500v2 for example (which is basically the same hardware)?

Yes it's a known issue on this model. Not for everyone but for many. Its that whole buying a brand new router product before all the bugs are worked out thing. I'm sure in a couple of firmware updates from now the issue will be resolved (6 months). So the choices are patience, or purchase products further in their development process. Sounds like the 88u & r8000 may be better products for you right now.

 

[avtella]

No issues here with a iPhone 6, iPad Air, iPad 4 and cousin's MacBook Pro 2014. Did you disable 160 MHz mode and MU-MIMO for troubleshooting purposes?

 

[garethr]

160MHz is disabled although I've had MU-MIMO enabled. But I'll try with it disabled.

There was a typo in my first post - it's a spring 2015 MacBook so these are all the most recent Apple devices which are either 2x2 or 3x3 stream and support MIMO.

Oddly the when run in AP only mode I don't see these issues at all and the same devices connect first time every time.

 

[garethr]

Update: No change with MU-MIMO disabled through the UI.

 

[mediatrek]

I happen to have two R7800 and this behaviour is consistent between them. I've also used a (Broadcom based) Asus RT-88U which has none of these issues, neither did the Netgear R8000 before it.

I fully except there may be some issues with Apple and there wireless implementation, however given the other Broadcom based products have no issues connecting I'm wondering whether this is a QCA issue, or unique to the R7800.

Has anyone experience similar issues with the R7500v2 for example (which is basically the same hardware)?

garethr- I do not have any Apple products myself to test this on my R7500v2 & R7800. However, I do not think it is directly an issue with the QCA hardware and drivers (unless Netgear has old QCA drivers in the firmware) in the R7500v2 & R7800. I say this as I checked with a few Apple-heavy device friends of mine that use daily Linksys EA8500 & EA7500 routers that use the same (or similar) QCA hardware. They have no issues with their Apple devices.

 

[garethr]

@mediatrek - So it is probably a Netgear specific firmware bug then?

 

[avtella]

This is an odd issue, some seem to have and others don't.

By the way no Apple devices support MU-MIMO as of yet.

 

[Killhippie]

This is an odd issue, some seem to have and others don't.

By the way no Apple devices support MU-MIMO as of yet.

I was thinking it may be due to older iPhones like the 6 and iPad Air not being mimo (iPad Air is also not 802.11ac), while the iPad Air 2 and iPhone 6s are both 802.11ac and both mimo. All I know is I wish Netgear would acknowledge this glitch as its a royal pain when doing a hard reset on an iPhone or ipad of the later variety and does cause a few issues with Airplay as well.

 

[sfx2000]

I was thinking it may be due to older iPhones like the 6 and iPad Air not being mimo (iPad Air is also not 802.11ac), while the iPad Air 2 and iPhone 6s are both 802.11ac and both mimo. All I know is I wish Netgear would acknowledge this glitch as its a royal pain when doing a hard reset on an iPhone or ipad of the later variety and does cause a few issues with Airplay as well.

I don't think it's a MIMO thing with the Apple devices - generally they're pretty predictable...

The R7800 is a fairly new QCA chipset, and in 5GHz, introduces some new 802.11ac WAVE2 modes that haven't been around - VHT160 and MU might have something to do with this, who knows...

 

[Killhippie]

I don't think it's a MIMO thing with the Apple devices - generally they're pretty predictable...

The R7800 is a fairly new QCA chipset, and in 5GHz, introduces some new 802.11ac WAVE2 modes that haven't been around - VHT160 and MU might have something to do with this, who knows...

Agreed, is it does it straight out of the box with factory settings, I tried 3 routers, and it does this also when attached to 2.4Ghz as well but that's also controlled by the new chip so not surprising. Oddly if you reboot your idevice it wont connect but after it sleeps and you awaken it again it does. Someone on the Netgear forums also noticed a delay in connection on 5Ghz on certain channels but that may be something else entirely. In the router logs it shows the router trying to hand out the IP address four or more times till successful. I personally use DHCP address reservation. Turning Mu off does not change the behaviour and HT160 is off by default.
I know the R7500v2 has initial issues with Macs, so maybe this is related. I had a quick look to see if the EA8500 has this issue as I think that uses the same chipset but could not see anything, but as I said it was only a brief look.

 

[avtella]

WiFi assist, have you tried turning that off? I still can't reproduce this, I wonder what exactly triggers this issue.

 

[Killhippie]

WiFi assist, have you tried turning that off? I still can't reproduce this, I wonder what exactly triggers this issue.

Yes I have, you have a 6 and a iPad Air (first version) ? I have the Air 2 and 6s which has MIMO and a different chipset I would imagine, maybe that's it, or location related as I'm in the UK you are in the US, it could be anything but I have tried everything I know and I'm severely disabled so pulling cables and changing routers back and forth is up to carers and I have more pressing needs from them as you may imagine. So for now its a pain but its a new router so hurdles will be found to jump. Netgear are calling me to discuss this oddball issue, so ill post back when/if I know more from level 2

 

[garethr]

Yes I have, you have a 6 and a iPad Air (first version) ? I have the Air 2 and 6s which has MIMO and a different chipset I would imagine, maybe that's it, or location related as I'm in the UK you are in the US, it could be anything but I have tried everything I know and I'm severely disabled so pulling cables and changing routers back and forth is up to carers and I have more pressing needs from them as you may imagine. So for now its a pain but its a new router so hurdles will be found to jump. Netgear are calling me to discuss this oddball issue, so ill post back when/if I know more from level 2

Netgear have reached out to me too, so hopefully we'll see some progress on this issue.

 

[Killhippie]

Netgear have reached out to me too, so hopefully we'll see some progress on this issue.

Good news, keep us posted on what they say to you.

 

[garethr]

Update: So this may be totally anecdotal at this stage - I've not done enough testing to be 100% sure, but with today's OSX 10.11.4 update and iOS 9.3 these devices seem to be able to connect both much more reliably and the first time after restarts or quickly switching off and on wifi.

Is anyone else who has updated OSX/iOS seeing the same?

 

[sfx2000]

So this may be totally anecdotal at this stage - I've not done enough testing to be 100% sure, but with today's OSX 10.11.4 update and iOS 9.3 these devices seem to be able to connect both much more reliably and the first time after restarts or quickly switching off and on wifi.

Is anyone else who has updated OSX/iOS seeing the same?

Too early to tell - taking a quick look thru release notes, nothing was specifically called out - but the update activity clean out caches, and a full restart, which can always help...

 

[bobsilver]

Netgear Guy who moderates this forum is out on personal time but Product Management is aware of the concerns raised here on this thread.

There’s no known issue from other sources about thgis Apple issue. The only thing we know is potential incompatibility if someone turned 160MHz support on (off by default).

But as others have stated users who have issues are being contacted personally by Netgear support to try and sort out what is going on.

Bob Silver
Netgear Networking Advisor

 

[sfx2000]

There’s no known issue from other sources about thgis Apple issue.

I agree - one must guess (with a reasonable amount of certainty I might add) that the QA team has a good portfolio of Apple clients to test against - esp. IOS based due to the sheer number of devices in the market...

 

[sfx2000]

Update: So this may be totally anecdotal at this stage - I've not done enough testing to be 100% sure, but with today's OSX 10.11.4 update and iOS 9.3 these devices seem to be able to connect both much more reliably and the first time after restarts or quickly switching off and on wifi.

Is anyone else who has updated OSX/iOS seeing the same?

After a more in-depth review of the release notes and security fixes in 10.11.4/IOS 9.3, no changes to the WiFi drivers - some kernel input cleanup to resolve a couple of security issues, but that's about it.