Time to sort my network out - help!

[aj_84]

Hi all,

I live in a new build house and from day one (a year and a bit since the house was built), I'm just not happy with the network config.
Firstly, I wanted network ports per room during the build stage but that did not happen and is now too late so... please advise on what I can do!

I am somewhat limited in what I can do from the offset but maybe some advice might bring up something I'm not thinking about.

Limitations:
*I'm not a millionaire but I will spend money for right equipment.
*BT in their wisdom installed all the broadband equipment in a cupboard. Given this is the case and I don't want LOTS of cables coming out of there, I will want to keep the main router still in this cupboard.
*Ideally I don't want to start drilling for cables given the house is barely a year old.

Current setup:
Asus AC87U connected to the BT fibre to the premises white box.
Asus connects to (wired): CCTV, home automation brain, Synology NAS and a Devolo 1200+ powerline.
All the above are in one cupboard/small room
Upstairs, there is another Devolo 1200+ to give ethernet to my laptop and printer.
Finally in the landing upstairs, there is a Devolo 1200+ wireless ac powerline to broadcast wireless.

The powerlines are primarily there to fix the signal issues

My issues:
1. Signal is short upstairs especially in rooms away from the router if looking up/down but even those directly above. Also living room on the same floor but furthest away is terrible.

2. Despite having fibre to the home, speeds as a result of the above are not always very good and no where near what I can get if I'm hooked via ethernet and sitting in the router area.

So I suppose the question now is, do I need to start looking at multiple access points? If so, what would/should I get?
Am I correct in saying all access points have to be wired for optimum speed/reliability?
If this happens, what would the main box be assuming it would not be the 87u given I still require a minimum of 3 ethernet ports for the CCTV/Synology/Home automation?
Finally, how many AP's should I have on top of the main 87u?

Thanks all in advance

 

[degrub]

Hi all,

I live in a new build house and from day one (a year and a bit since the house was built), I'm just not happy with the network config.
Firstly, I wanted network ports per room during the build stage but that did not happen and is now too late so... please advise on what I can do!

I am somewhat limited in what I can do from the offset but maybe some advice might bring up something I'm not thinking about.

Limitations:
*I'm not a millionaire but I will spend money for right equipment.
*BT in their wisdom installed all the broadband equipment in a cupboard. Given this is the case and I don't want LOTS of cables coming out of there, I will want to keep the main router still in this cupboard.
*Ideally I don't want to start drilling for cables given the house is barely a year old.

Current setup:
Asus AC87U connected to the BT fibre to the premises white box.
Asus connects to (wired): CCTV, home automation brain, Synology NAS and a Devolo 1200+ powerline.
All the above are in one cupboard/small room
Upstairs, there is another Devolo 1200+ to give ethernet to my laptop and printer.
Finally in the landing upstairs, there is a Devolo 1200+ wireless ac powerline to broadcast wireless.

The powerlines are primarily there to fix the signal issues

My issues:
1. Signal is short upstairs especially in rooms away from the router if looking up/down but even those directly above. Also living room on the same floor but furthest away is terrible.

2. Despite having fibre to the home, speeds as a result of the above are not always very good and no where near what I can get if I'm hooked via ethernet and sitting in the router area.

So I suppose the question now is, do I need to start looking at multiple access points? If so, what would/should I get?
Am I correct in saying all access points have to be wired for optimum speed/reliability?
If this happens, what would the main box be assuming it would not be the 87u given I still require a minimum of 3 ethernet ports for the CCTV/Synology/Home automation?
Finally, how many AP's should I have on top of the main 87u?

Thanks all in advance

What bandwidth do you get if you plug directly into the BT lan port ?

Wireless and Powerline are going to be the limiters, by default, no matter what it says on the box. Do you happen to have RG6 cable installed in the house ?

 

[L&LD]

Without physically moving the main router outside of that cupboard and into a central and obstacle free area (at least a metre in any direction, in 3D), your issues will persist.

Consider using 'flat' Ethernet cable to run and locate the router in a better (more central) place. If you are not able to do so, hire someone that can.

No additional hardware will solve your main issues here. Location, location, location. Then the rest of the details matter.

 

[aj_84]

Right in order to answer the first reply, I've done a whole load of testing tonight with Lan Speed Tester and here are my findings.

First figure is Write, second is Read (Mbps). All tests went to a NAS drive on a gb port directly to the 87u

Using a Dell Precision M3800 (Intel 7260ac)
From Upstairs:
1mb file:

Asus Wifi 13.5/20.7
Devolo Wifi 8.24/11.42
Devolo LAN 27.6 9.99

10mb file:
Asus Wifi 16.1/84.1
Devolo Wifi 19.92/12.95
Devolo LAN 42.9/9.6

100mb file:
all 3 tests too slow

From Downstairs right next to the 87u
1mb file:
Asus Wifi 102.5/130.7
Asus LAN 278.6/291.7

10mb file:
Asus Wifi 121.4/125.4
Asus LAN 265.2/291.3

100mb file:
Asus Wifi 123.2/130.9
Asus Lan 225.9/286.9

I then did the same test using a Surface 4 Pro which I believe has a Marvel card

1mb file:
Surface to Devolo Wifi 1.92/3.18
Surface LAN to devolo lan 29.2/6.25
Surface to ASUS Wifi 59.5/48.5

10mb file:
Surface to D Wifi 5.11/8.3
Surface LAN to D lan 46.8/6.7
Surface to Asus Wifi 42.8/63.6

100mb file test not done.

From Downstairs:
1mb file:
Surface Wifi 171.2.170.9
Surface LAN 494.4/705

10mb file:
Surface Wifi 161/75
Surface LAN 607.8/781.7

100mb file:
Surface Wifi 159.2/81.6
Surface LAN 478.7/644.9


Very interesting lan speed given both laptops do not have an ethernet port and used the same ethernet USB adapter but thats something else for my to look into.
Main thing is it's clear the devolo powerlines are useless


As for the BT box, you can't connect an ethernet cable to that directly as it won't authenticate.

And onto the second reply:

Assuming I get A unit out, what would you recommend?
I want to keep one unit inside to let the CCTV/NAS/Home automation wired
I will consider purchasing a unit for outside now that I've seen the numbers - which one/s?

At this point, I am thinking maybe I should have an AP in the middle of the house bolted to the ceiling both upstairs and downstairs.


In terms of devices, I have a fair few
4 smart TVs
Sky Q which does stream 4k
NOW tv/amazon fire
3-4 laptops
5-6 mobile devices
CCTv/home automation/NAS
I also repair phones as a hobby so constantly adding phones to a guest network to test connectivity/updating etc

 

[degrub]

Right in order to answer the first reply, I've done a whole load of testing tonight with Lan Speed Tester and here are my findings.

First figure is Write, second is Read (Mbps). All tests went to a NAS drive on a gb port directly to the 87u

Using a Dell Precision M3800 (Intel 7260ac)
From Upstairs:
1mb file:

Asus Wifi 13.5/20.7
Devolo Wifi 8.24/11.42
Devolo LAN 27.6 9.99

10mb file:
Asus Wifi 16.1/84.1
Devolo Wifi 19.92/12.95
Devolo LAN 42.9/9.6

100mb file:
all 3 tests too slow

From Downstairs right next to the 87u
1mb file:
Asus Wifi 102.5/130.7
Asus LAN 278.6/291.7

10mb file:
Asus Wifi 121.4/125.4
Asus LAN 265.2/291.3

100mb file:
Asus Wifi 123.2/130.9
Asus Lan 225.9/286.9

I then did the same test using a Surface 4 Pro which I believe has a Marvel card

1mb file:
Surface to Devolo Wifi 1.92/3.18
Surface LAN to devolo lan 29.2/6.25
Surface to ASUS Wifi 59.5/48.5

10mb file:
Surface to D Wifi 5.11/8.3
Surface LAN to D lan 46.8/6.7
Surface to Asus Wifi 42.8/63.6

100mb file test not done.

From Downstairs:
1mb file:
Surface Wifi 171.2.170.9
Surface LAN 494.4/705

10mb file:
Surface Wifi 161/75
Surface LAN 607.8/781.7

100mb file:
Surface Wifi 159.2/81.6
Surface LAN 478.7/644.9


Very interesting lan speed given both laptops do not have an ethernet port and used the same ethernet USB adapter but thats something else for my to look into.
Main thing is it's clear the devolo powerlines are useless


As for the BT box, you can't connect an ethernet cable to that directly as it won't authenticate.

And onto the second reply:

Assuming I get A unit out, what would you recommend?
I want to keep one unit inside to let the CCTV/NAS/Home automation wired
I will consider purchasing a unit for outside now that I've seen the numbers - which one/s?

At this point, I am thinking maybe I should have an AP in the middle of the house bolted to the ceiling both upstairs and downstairs.


In terms of devices, I have a fair few
4 smart TVs
Sky Q which does stream 4k
NOW tv/amazon fire
3-4 laptops
5-6 mobile devices
CCTv/home automation/NAS
I also repair phones as a hobby so constantly adding phones to a guest network to test connectivity/updating etc

Since you have cctv, do you have a spare rg6 run upstairs ?
If you do, you can get a pair of actiontec 6200s and you should get 300-500 mbit over the cable, modem to modem.

 

[aj_84]

Unfortunately not. We used rg59+2 for the cams and have plenty of that left in a reel!

The cat6 flat cable is certainly food for thought if I'm bringing it out but then what I'd want is a no wireless router in the cupboard to go to the fibre model and then whatever is outside be it the 87u or something else connect to the new unit inside

Just doesn't make sense shelling out for a wireless unit when there's no point using wireless on that specific unit that stays inside

 

[aj_84]

Been doing a lot of reading and taking pictures of the house to figure out routes and come to one large conclusion - I think for my requirements, even something as big as the AC5300 (asus) is probably not enough and I need to possibly jump onto a small business layout.

What do you think of the below:
In the cupboard area:
Draytek 2860
Connected also to a Vigorswitch P1090 to provide POE

Outside in the hallway
Draytek Vigor AP-910c via POE to the switch either on the ceiling or wall-mounted

Upstairs in the hallway
Draytek Vigor AP-910c via POE to the switch either on the ceiling or wall-mounted

Later in future:
Upstairs in the "office"
Vigorswitch P1090 or something similar connected to the switch downstairs directly as this has the main laptop/PC, multi-function printer and if there is a requirement for laptop builds or even general ethernet use, I can hook into the switch directly.

From what I can see, the reviews for the 2860 are great and it's a well bedded in router with plenty of functions such as VPN, fttc compatibility etc. Slightly old but I can't see them having a newer one that works with fttc (BT)

The switch seems fine for what I need it for which is primarily powering the access points over POE as there would not be a power socket in any of the locations in easy reach + with the additional ports, I can hook the NAS up to both it's ethernet ports (maybe one to the switch, the other the the router for redundancy)

The APs are AC1200 so not as fast as the 87U's AC2400 but given that I'm getting nothing of the sort currently, I think the all the devices should work well with it or am I likely to run out especially with 4k streaming?

I suppose if this is to happen, I could look at wiring the main TV that does 4K and let the rest of them work wireless- only one TV is true 4k, the rest just use the internet for smart tv apps/streams.

thanks again

 

[aj_84]

And to add to this, I have been advised
Draytek 2860 router as per above but instead of the Draytek AP, go with Ubiquiti ac pro AP''s
And instead of the draytek switch, go for a Netgear JGS516PE
Certainly within budget and reviews seem good again all around

 

[L&LD]

How big is your home? The RT-AC3100 I installed for a customer was more than enough. Even in a very non-optimal (in theory) location.

http://www.snbforums.com/threads/sh...-go-with-the-rt-ac1900p-v3.34748/#post-281391


The 'small business layout' you're considering should be better. But not necessarily. Particularly when the total cost and time to set it up and administer it over the next few years is also considered.

 

[aj_84]

Well I initially moved in and was issued a box standard BT openreach hub or whatever they call it which was terrible.
I then bought a 87U on the basis that when I was living with the parents, I changed theirs to a 68u (might be a 66 thinking about it) and that made things very usable.
But the 87u just did not get to all the rooms especially the living room and office.
Thats when the powerlines came in.
Having wireless all round was great but that didnt mean I had the speed I wanted.

The other day when I started this thread I had enough with the speed when all I wanted to do was scroll through some photos on the Synology NAS. The Synology 216+ isnt a slow machine and it seemed logging in from outside via the portal was quicker than a simple \\share browse internally which was painful.
We're talking about a folder of 100 photos taken from a phone so 4-5mb each and yet clicking on one would take ages.

So I agree, it should not be necessary but I've run out of options - Yes I could bring the unit out but that would mean a whole spate of issues for the equipment that needs to be wired and is right next to the route now.

I have literally just now placed the order for the Draytek, netgear switch and 2x access points.
It means the draytek and switch stay inside with the wired bits still wired and the APs outside.

The suggestion for flat cable was great so hopefully that will deal with the issues on having to drill holes

This solution should fix:
lacking stable and decent wifi signal
getting rid of powerlines
a stable connection to the internet aside from anything lan/wifi connected

What it won't do is prove it was the position of the router causing it in the first place
Obviously if its still bad, then it can only be the house but with an upstairs and downstairs AP, one thinks it should be resolved

The Ubiquiti's are currently being setup on the cloud and I will have the gear tomorrow. Whether I have cabling for it by then who knows

 

[aj_84]

Thanks for all the advice - this is now resolved.
The kit listed above has certainly done the trick. The only issue and a stupid one at that is that out of the 4 flat ethernet cables I bought, I tested 3 and guess which one is faulty having lifted carpets, fixed the cables, trunking where applicable etc etc... the 4th one!
Works fine but I'm only getting 10/100 speeds between the two switches. Tested the ports itself out and they're giving out 1000 but as soon as the cable in question is plugged in, it drops to 100.
So another is on the way but it means having to lift up the carpets again
Otherwise the flat cabling is very good if not maybe a little inflexible compared to rounded - under the underlay of the carpet it sits very flat.

Lesson learnt - test test and test!

 

[pege63]

Wath cable are you using (CAT?)?
The AP-910c is also supplied with an AC/DC mains PSU for installations where you are not using PoE. Wath happends when you using that?

The AP-910c supports Gigabit PoE (if you have a Gigabit PoE switch/injector) such as our VigorSwitch P2261 or P-1090 models (or any other 802.3af device).

 

[pkbristol]

So another is on the way but it means having to lift up the carpets again

If the cable is laid straight, ie not going round any bends then you could use an ethernet coupler, connect the old cable and new cable, pull the old one out and pull the new one in. ( that's the electrician in me talking).

 

[Samir]

Wow, hate that I'm late to the party. I think some better powerlines would have been a first step--I get more bandwidth with my old netgear 500av's.

The second thing I would have recommended is some of the solutions on netsys-direct.com. I've used several of these before and I'm sure you could have gotten 200Mb to every place you had any type of cable or telephone wiring using their products. I ran several of these for years over 30+ year old non-category anything plain old telephone wire and got over 20Mb.