AC86U replacement: RT-AX86U (Pro) or GT-AX6000?

[XIII]

Currently I use an ASUS RT-AC86U with the excellent Asuswrt-Merlin firmware and I have not yet felt the need to replace this router. However, apparently this router is "semi-EOL", since it won’t get the new 388 firmware.

I'm considering upgrading just because of that. I was thinking of the AX86U Pro, but that's still not available over here. However, currently there's a Black Friday discount on the GT-AX6000, which makes it a bit cheaper than the (regular) AX86U...

1) How do these routers compare? (The Asus website does not show a comparison when I select these two routers; it only shows the AC86U/S specs...)

2) If I run Asuswrt-Merlin on it, can I ignore all the gaming stuff (and even that UI)? (I don't play games on my computers)

3) Does this GT model have the same Asuswrt-Merlin support as the regular RT models? (Same update cadence, or less frequent?)

4) What would you do? (Why?)

 

[XIII]

Oh, the AX86U went on sale as well at a different vendor...

This means the difference between the two is about €/$60.

 

[L&LD]

Buy the GT-AX6000.

AiMesh HW combination?

Hi! I am about to replace my old Netgear router + mesh extender, starting to get more and more unreliable. And after doing some reading I will probably end up buying Asus. I am not any good at all on networking, but read some postes on this forum to have a better understanding. So I most...

www.snbforums.com

 

[jsz]

@XIII

Don't want to push you the wrong way, but the GT-AX6000 I tried was yielding worse PHY rates than my older GT-AC2900 in the same location and connecting to the same clients. AX210 + Apple Iphone/Macbook with AX HW.

Throughput was superior, but the speed @ 30FT distance wasn't much greater to warrant the $300 premium over my previous GT-AC2900. *This was on the previous FW relative to todays release for GT-AX6000.*

Tried an AX86S this past week and the PHY rates match and exceed my previous GT-AC2900 with the same testing location, clients, channels etc.

Maybe I got a lemon (GT-AX6000), but it's best to try multiple routers and pick the best price/performance for your environment. I wish I could have kept the GT-AX6000. Definitely more "future proof" with gen 2 BCM Hardware/1GB Ram.

WIFI is highly variable.. You should try every router you can or consider.

PS: AX86U PRO MSRP wont be "cheap" on release. GT-AX6000 will look much more appealing as time goes on, especially with current sales.

Good luck.

 

[XIII]

Got caught up in work and now the GT-AX6000 is out of stock before I purchased it...

Thank you for your replies; they might help for a next sale.

 

[XIII]

Back in stock!

Bought it with the option to return until end of January, so that should give me time to test whether it's worth the €/$ 260...

 

[XIII]

My AX6000 finally arrived this week.

This evening I could perform a quick non-scientific test (with the default installed 386 firmware) where I checked signal strength and download/upload speed at several (weak) spots in my house. I hardly notice any differences between the AC86U and the AX6000, but I guess that was to be expected, because I have no AX clients (yet).

Hope to install Asuswrt-Merlin 388.1, but that will probably take me several evenings (switching back to the AC86U until most stuff works).

 

[Tech9]

I hardly notice any differences between the AC86U and the AX6000

AC86U is hard to beat for range and walls penetration. Replacing it was a good move though due to common issues it has.

 

[jsz]

AC86U is hard to beat for range and walls penetration. Replacing it was a good move though due to common issues it has.

I think it penetrates objects like kitchen appliances better in regards to 5G spectrum.

Moving my AX86S a few feet away from my original sight path actually improves signal quality in my main fixed testing room, which is now around 33-35FT in newer location.

I couldn't do this on the GT-AC2900 as PHY would drop down a tier and innately produce worse results.

Like I mentioned.. the GT-AX6000 I tested was worse regarding that original test location. The only thing saving it from underperforming was radio throughput advantages.

All same original location in terms of PHY: AX86S > GT-AC2900 > GT-AX6000. Strange.

 

[JS_racer]

I think it penetrates objects like kitchen appliances better in regards to 5G spectrum.

Moving my AX86S a few feet away from my original sight path actually improves signal quality in my main fixed testing room, which is now around 33-35FT in newer location.

I couldn't do this on the GT-AC2900 as PHY would drop down a tier and innately produce worse results.

Like I mentioned.. the GT-AX6000 I tested was worse regarding that original test location. The only thing saving it from underperforming was radio throughput advantages.

All same original location in terms of PHY: AX86S > GT-AC2900 > GT-AX6000. Strange.

when you say radio throughput, were speed tests or anything able to see a difference ?? my wired pc gets say 580Mb 25Mb up
i have a ax86s i am debating returning, speed test on my s22 ultra using the ookla application on my phone shows 520Mb or so, up is good. if i use chrome or edge, speed is in the 300s vs wired pc chrome or edge mid to upper 500s, device speed tests also are in the 300s... not sure what is going on with it.
had/ have an ac86u that started doing strange radio things, didn't rule out router, vs environment change.
debating the ax6000, or kicking around access points, switch something, brain gets sore trying to sort those out.. lol

 

[Clark Griswald]

@XIII
My upgrade from AC86 to AX6000, has been smooth and zero issues, so I advise to install RMerlin's latest fw
As Director of Non-Scientific Testing, My Testing Criteria is Stringent:
If The Family notices or complains, then I remove the offending network appliance and/or fw.

 

[Tech9]

This is not Testing, but Surviving technique. You start with good Testing intentions and then learn the Surviving reality.

 

[Clark Griswald]

@Tech9
As usual you are correct, and I have resigned as Director of Non-Scientific Testing.
I am now working in the Department of Redundancy Department.

 

[XIII]

I seem to have an issue with guest network 1:

Release - Asuswrt-Merlin 388.1 is now available for all supported Wifi 6 models

In regards to 160Mhz channel bandwidth. Would it not be logical that if we are sharing these extended channels with some critical services (Weather for instance), that changing channels automatically would be a must, for fear of occupying a channel needed for the critical systems around your...

www.snbforums.com

Spent an entire evening on configuring stuff and I think I need at least one more. Installing from scratch is so much work...

 

[Tech9]

GN1 us used for GN to nodes in AiMesh. If you have single router use GN2 instead.

 

[jsz]

when you say radio throughput, were speed tests or anything able to see a difference ?? my wired pc gets say 580Mb 25Mb up
i have a ax86s i am debating returning, speed test on my s22 ultra using the ookla application on my phone shows 520Mb or so, up is good. if i use chrome or edge, speed is in the 300s vs wired pc chrome or edge mid to upper 500s, device speed tests also are in the 300s... not sure what is going on with it.
had/ have an ac86u that started doing strange radio things, didn't rule out router, vs environment change.
debating the ax6000, or kicking around access points, switch something, brain gets sore trying to sort those out.. lol

I'd reformat the unit back to stock incase QoS or other SW is enabled and messing with you connection speed.

When I say throughput, I'm talking about PHY rate vs what is actually being transmitted to PC.

In my subjective environment, the GT-AC2900 is the worse, AX86S is middle of the road, and GT-AX6000 does the best, granted it's also the worse in terms of PHY.. so there's a trade off here.

IE @ same distances (client + router) with 2x2 AX201 @ 30FT:

GT-AC2900 = 585/650 PHY (variable)
AX86S = 576/648/721 PHY (variable)
GT-AX6000 = 432/544/576 PHY (variable)

The GT-AX6000 will push ISP speeds within PHY limitation while the GT-AC2900 will peak at 450mbps (subjective to home) in conjunction with its 650 PHY rate. AX86S is the middle child, though has 160mhz switching benefits in conjunction with broadcasting full 4x4 signal.. GT-AC2900 does not support this.

The GT-AC2900 can do 160mhz, but split radio into 2x2 + 2x2 80+80 mode and will hurt native 80mhz clients @ distance.. since they only "see" a 2x2 signal. Not saying a 2x2 client can utilize 4x4 radio, but it will grab on to 4x4 broadcast better as there are more possible streams.

160mhz innately benefits throughput, though it's more logical to compare the 80mhz limitation.. in which case GT-AX6000> AX86S/U> GT-AC2900 in my experience.

What performed best for me @ specific testing location through my environment? AX86S.. at least in terms of throughput vs distance @ 30FT.

160mhz> 80mhz bonding is also a legitimate benefit for overall throughput at this 30FT distance in my situation.

The GT-AC2900 can be forced into "160mhz" mode and it will outperform standard 80mhz BCM AX radios close range (5FT)... there's no static metric to determine what's "better".

Coming from GT-AC2900, it wasn't worth me spending $300+ USD for the GT-AX6000 since it basically underperformed my expectations. (in my home/subjective environment).

I just feel it doesn't penetrates objects well assuming mine wasn't defective on the amplifier end. In terms of penetration? I have to agree with @Tech9. the ACW2 AC86U units do very well. Followed by Gen 1 then Gen2 AX.

Also what ISP are you on? Coax modems can influence this to an extent.

Spectrum in the US for example has 4 different branded 2.5G modems with 2 main chipsets.. PUMA 7 and BCM3390 The Broadcom modems in my environment push much higher throughput via a Broadcom based router as a secondary factor.

Most are Hitron (Intel/Maxlinear Puma 7)

Alternatives are:
Ubbe (Broadcom 3390)
Technicolor (Broadcom 3390)
Sercomm (Intel/Maxlinear PUMA 7)

The Puma7 models tend to benefit dense areas since they support OFDMA and internally benchmark better according to the ISP. IE: More capable of advertised speeds over LAN.

Both run on different provisioning.. so you can improve or worsen your line quality just by switching out modem with an alt chipset.

HW wise the PUMA 7 stuff has stronger HW (Clock rate/ODFMA support), but it doesn't really matter if the end result is worse. YMMV.

Edit: the PUMA 7 stuff performed better with Qualcomm routers at least that was my experience with an older ACW2 platform.

 

[JS_racer]

wow, thanks for the great explanation and thank your time,
internet is cable, spectrum. old router was a ac86x. had it for years and years. rock solid, zero issues... added a new washer, dryer, coffee maker and switched kasa plug. the coffee had a Bluetooth module. started with washer not displaying the wifi light, then cameras would start dropping off, then the plug wouldn't connect... then the 2ghz would restart from time to time. or drop out. it was very visible on my harmony hub would go red. this environment has been unchanged and rock solid for years until this point.
on a whim, I sent the wife to get a ax86s that was on sale for like $160... only stock firmware since out of the box. nothing running on it. using guest1 for cameras and isolated stuff, guest 1 is wyze v2/v3 cameras, bed, t-stat, guest2 is kasa and sense plugs, dryer, and stuff that needs internat, guest3 isolated is my washer.. sorta using guest as a vlan

my ax86s seems good, ran a speed test on my wife's laptop, just from google the first one, she was at good speed, phones, application shows good speed, some website speed tests the same, others that test good wired, are 300, vs 550 ... strange.. (probably not the best method for testing, started looking at speeds when everything slowed down a couple days ago due to storms or something, not local. ) not sure what my old router ran on those same "low scoring" speed tests for comparison. I could try 5g cell with the app and sites, to see if that also is different. phones and tablets are Samsung s22 ultras, and s7 and s7+ tablets.

modem is a technicolor e31t2v1 on a paid 500Mb plan, kicking around upgrading to 1gig.
over the years a n66u then ac86u has served us well. kicking around a switch, wired router, access points. just not sure how to get started on a budget friendly equipment.

 

[jsz]

wow, thanks for the great explanation and thank your time,
internet is cable, spectrum. old router was a ac86x. had it for years and years. rock solid, zero issues... added a new washer, dryer, coffee maker and switched kasa plug. the coffee had a Bluetooth module. started with washer not displaying the wifi light, then cameras would start dropping off, then the plug wouldn't connect... then the 2ghz would restart from time to time. or drop out. it was very visible on my harmony hub would go red. this environment has been unchanged and rock solid for years until this point.
on a whim, I sent the wife to get a ax86s that was on sale for like $160... only stock firmware since out of the box. nothing running on it. using guest1 for cameras and isolated stuff, guest 1 is wyze v2/v3 cameras, bed, t-stat, guest2 is kasa and sense plugs, dryer, and stuff that needs internat, guest3 isolated is my washer.. sorta using guest as a vlan

my ax86s seems good, ran a speed test on my wife's laptop, just from google the first one, she was at good speed, phones, application shows good speed, some website speed tests the same, others that test good wired, are 300, vs 550 ... strange.. (probably not the best method for testing, started looking at speeds when everything slowed down a couple days ago due to storms or something, not local. ) not sure what my old router ran on those same "low scoring" speed tests for comparison. I could try 5g cell with the app and sites, to see if that also is different. phones and tablets are Samsung s22 ultras, and s7 and s7+ tablets.

modem is a technicolor e31t2v1 on a paid 500Mb plan, kicking around upgrading to 1gig.
over the years a n66u then ac86u has served us well. kicking around a switch, wired router, access points. just not sure how to get started on a budget friendly equipment.

Wireless is highly variable so its really hard to pin point issues, but I would test performance with 1 static device that you know works.

Would generally mess with channel config assuming interference is your issue.. Set manual control channel 36 then 161 and test and compare. UNII-1 and UNNI-3 are the two main 80mhz blocks without involving DFS. 36 and 161 will give you the best idea of interference per environment.

Doubt your modem is the issue, but you can try swapping it out at a spectrum store.

ET2251(Technicolor), EU2251(Ubbe), ES2251(Sercomm), EN2251(Hitron)

Edit: I ordered a second GT-AX6000 since its currently the same price as the first one I returned. $296 USD with cashback.

Will report if theres any difference from my first sample that I purchased in October.

 

[jsz]

Got my GT-AX6000 replacement.

Seems to default to a completely different UNII block (same general time frame) and performance metrics skew between the AX86S.

Forcing to same UNII-3 block and control channel that AX86S defaulted to results in worse performance subjectively speaking. UNII-1 currently has high interference for me, though performance is inline with my AX86S give or take (maybe worse at some points). I'll have to check this later @ 3 AM to get a more objective viewpoint.

The main radios are noticeably faster than previous generation when resetting or switching channels.


If I default this router to AUTO control, I'm not exactly impressed with GT-AX6000 as a single point unit... I even have it placed higher than previously tested in same general location.

What a bummer.. Looks like the overall design may not work with my home layout. I'll give it a few days. *already on latest FW.

Update:

11PM testing: AX86S and GT-AX6000 will and can trade off in my environment when it comes to UNII-1+ Extended bonding. 80 +160mhz.

Hard to compare them with the same exact channel selection as I believe the layout (EE design) between the two units contributes to how well they work in my subjective environment. Might have to do with how the AX86S Beamfoam's relative to the higher end GT-AX6000. IE: May be over lapping neighbors devices to a higher degree.

AX86S can be concluded to reach higher PHY tier when AUTO is enabled (UNII-1 channels). Stationary test PC with AX201 client @ around 30FT.

I've seen the GT-AX6000 outperform and do worse in the same 10 minute time frame, but the AX86S I have is indeed more consistent for me.

Will continue testing UNII-3 bonding later, but from what I can see it seems that UNII-3 on GT-AX6000 is impacted by interference at a significantly higher degree... goes back to my first nod to beamfoaming.

Might be trying to cover a larger space, while the lower end AX86S bubbles my specific home better.

Edit:
I was also able to briefly retest my GT-AC2900 at the same location, but with the same raised surface that the AX86S and GT-AX6000 are being tested on.

Can now hit MAX AC PHY of 866.7. Max throughput is around 500mbps at testing location. Little slower than close range, but still decent for a router that sold for a mere $90 USD on Black friday. (Mine is 2.5 years old and I paid $170)

The GT-AX6000 is likely going back again (lol), but I wouldn't advise against it.. It just doesn't work as effectively for me (in my environment) to spend $300 USD on it.


Edit Day 2:

Max PHY tier at same location with raised placement.

GT-AX6000 = 865
GT-AC2900 = 866.7 (AC limit without nitro/turboQAM, MCS9)
AX86S = 1.1GBPS.

I can conclude the AX86S hits the highest performance and is the more consistent AX router for me. This will vary for others.

GT-AC2900 seems more stable with lower overall throughput at distance. 160mhz (80+80) helps specific test client (AX201), but does worse with 80mhz clients such as macbooks, iphones, etc at range.

Edit 3: Did late night testing and can confirm the GT-AX6000 does do worse on UNII-3 for me.. hitting PHY rates significantly lower than they should be and performance is bottlenecking as bad as my GT-AC2900 which ends up with the same consistency of speed @ distance. This is part of the reason why I sent the first one back.


Like always, take all WIFI "test" with a grain of salt. This is in no way objective.

I don't want to discourage anyone from buying something, but WIFI is RNG. Test yourself. There is no "best" overall router, just stuff that checks boxes.

 

[jsz]

Was able to grab a AX86U for $209 USD.

Its consistently underperforming relative to my specific AX86S in basic subjective 5G testing (same as above) with out of box settings defaulting to the same control 36 channel via "Auto". It's more inline with the GT-AX6000s I tested, maybe even a bit worse from what I remember.

I'll have to re-test later (2-5 AM) though seems kind of cut and dry when comparing the two routers (AX86S/U) in the same exact spot. At least, at 8-10PM here.. Same Control channel/AUTO.

The AX86U (2022, Oct 2024 warranty date) is newer production date relative to my Best buy AX86S (2021, which goes by retail purchase date instead of being transferable as it sits on shelves).

So far.. *my specific* AX86S is the most consistent design out of the lot for pure range... static PHY is close or identical to AX86U, but they're completely different in my environment. AX86S is more or less the best performer out of the lot of new models I've messed with.. including two separate GT-AX6000.

Seems to be a matter of EE design of the "lite" S model and or the 86U has alternative 5G Skyworks amplifiers.. Maybe even Radio tolerance? No clue.

Just odd because the AX86U is newer production date.. I'd expect it to be closer performance given same general layout. Seems there's more than meets the eye.

Both AX86U and AX86S are on revision 1 of their individual PCB designs.

I find it hilarious to be honest... the AX86S was just a "F around purchase", but I might end up keeping it even though the RAM may inevitably be a bottleneck later on. Not concerned about the CPU subjectivity via 5G... BCM43684 has its own A7 core for network processing before it dips into the main A53.

I am concerned about heavy CPU use when loading the 2.4G 6710.. Which doesn't happen on the older GT-AC2900 (Same 4906+ 3x3 BCM4365E.. confirmed to have internal 800mhz A7). You be the judge.

The AX86U is more or less closer to my GT-AC2900 .. which is funny enough more consistent up to a certain threshold.. The AX86U both performs worse and better than the older AC86U *design* depending on interference.

AX86S is so far consistently better on multiple channels.

I'll mess around for a few more days, but I would highly recommend going for a BCM gen 2 AX design (such as GT-AX6000) over the older AX86U if its the same price bracket assuming tolerances are consistent. (It seemed a little better).

Sort of glad I retested all the models. Maybe I have "golden" GT-AC2900 and AX86S samples.. No clue.