Advice on how best home net setup with 2 routers (& can WAN port be used as LAN port?

[F1nchy]

Hi guys

I have an Asus RT-N66U as my main router. We have ethernet ports in all rooms. However, because of the way the connections are set up in our apartment I cannot easily connect them on the same subnet, so I am looking to get a second router, use that as my wireless router and use the N66U as the main router with DHCP, but wired only, but I want advice on how best to do it.

The set up is this; the main incoming router from the ISP is in a service hatch. From there it plugs into an old fashion switch block (like a BT exchange type thing, with all rooms having ethernet ports with CAT6 cabling.

I have three rooms connected; the 'office' which has the Asus N66U, my desktop, my HP Microserver running WHS2011, a NAS and my Sonos bridge. This is currently the central point of my home network, running on the 192.168.0.x range.

In the lounge it has my media player (An Acer Revo running OpenELEC XBMC), Samsung Smart TV and PS4 (via a gigabit switch at that end).

In the third storage room I have a second Microserver running ESXi and a few test virtual machines.

All devices in the lounge and storage room connect via the ISPs router, so they are all picking up IP addresses on the 192.168.1.x range.

The Asus N66U is connected from the ISP router into the WAN port.

Because the service hatch is in the far point of the apartment it's no good for a central wireless access point, but it is a better point for the main router as it is between all rooms, compared to having the main router in the office (as any traffic from the lounge or storage room would have to go to the office and back out).

What I want to do is use the N66U in the service hatch and use that as the DHCP server but disable wireless connections, and then get an Asus AC68U for the office and use that as the wireless access point, and it'll also connect the wired devices in there.

I may also move the WHS Microserver into the service hatch to get it out of the office and so it's connected directly to the main router (instead of going through the two), as that's where all our TV shows and movies are and any improvement in connection speed is welcome when streaming HD video (the quality of the cabling is mixed, some faster than others).

What would be the best way to configure these two routers? Will the second one (AC68U) need to be set up in a different way to allow it to act as a wireless extension of the network?)

And is there any way of configuring the WAN port on the AC68U to act as a LAN port instead (as I presume I need to connect the cable from the N66U to a LAN port otherwise it'll not work on the same subnet?)

With regard to DHCP server, am I best to have the N66U doing DHCP? Or would that be better left to the AC68U with it's more powerful CPU, even though it's further away from the main internet connection?

My goals from all this are 1) to get everything communicating on the 192.168.0.x range and connecting to the ISP router from one point, 2) to have the fastest connections possible between devices in the different rooms and 3) improve wireless performance for wireless devices.

Is there anything else I should be considering or that I am missing?

Thanks!

 

[thiggins]

Just shut off wireless on the main router. Use these articles to set up the second router as an AP:
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...onvert-a-wireless-router-into-an-access-point
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...w-to-add-an-access-point-to-a-wireless-router

DHCP serving isn't that CPU intensive.

Why not leave the radios on in both routers and improve wireless coverage?

 

[F1nchy]

Thanks thiggins.

I hadn't thought of running wireless on both; I had assumed that if they were in range of each other that might have an adverse affect as they'd both be shouting out into the same space and devices would be flitting between them.

I don't really have a problem with range on the wireless, I can just about get a decent signal from most of the apartment. If I was to do that presumably I'd put the N66U into AP mode. Presumably I would set a different SSID and it would effectively be a different wireless connection? And setting the same SSID would cause problems?

 

[thiggins]

The second article has the configuration information you need. There are two schools of thought on SSID: set them the same or set them differently. All depends on how good your devices are at "roaming" or choosing the best signal.

The problem usually isn't devices "flitting" between APs. It tends to be more that they stay attached to a low signal AP when there is a better one available.

 

[F1nchy]

Ah, I'm with you. So if I do have them both doing wireless I'm probably better off having seperate SSIDs and making sure they're not clashing on channels as well. There aren't many other wireless networks nearby and I can use inSSIDer to check which channels are best at each end of the apartment.

Thanks! Router ordered, waiting impatiently now.....!

 

[sfx2000]

Thanks thiggins.

I hadn't thought of running wireless on both; I had assumed that if they were in range of each other that might have an adverse affect as they'd both be shouting out into the same space and devices would be flitting between them.

I don't really have a problem with range on the wireless, I can just about get a decent signal from most of the apartment. If I was to do that presumably I'd put the N66U into AP mode. Presumably I would set a different SSID and it would effectively be a different wireless connection? And setting the same SSID would cause problems?

Common SSID, Common WPA2 keys - makes client configuration easier...

Can share or have different channels - use CH1/6/11 for 2.4GHz, narrow channels recommended there...

most moderm client stacks will choose the "right" AP - I mean modern as Win7/8 and most versions of OSX - Android and IOS do a good job as well.

Make sure that there's only one DHCP server as noted in the articles Tim pointed out above.

 

[F1nchy]

Great, thanks. This is a simple plan of how I intend doing it (without showing all the devices connected to the different points);

Hows does channel bandwidth differ between 20, 40 and 20/40? And is it the same for 2.4ghz and 5?

 

[sfx2000]

Great, thanks. This is a simple plan of how I intend doing it (without showing all the devices connected to the different points);

Hows does channel bandwidth differ between 20, 40 and 20/40? And is it the same for 2.4ghz and 5?

Saw the diagram, makes sense...

20Mhz channels for 2.4GHz - with 2 AP's, one can get into co-channel/adjacent channel interference, as two AP's with wide channels (20/40 auto) will overlap each other...

5GHz, not a problem, set them as wide as they can go - but one can set one of the AP's to 149 for example, and perhaps the other to 36...

 

[jlake]

The ASUS AC68U has a mode called "AP mode". If you're going to use the AC68U as an AP, then put it in AP mode. When you do that, the WAN port on the AC68U becomes a LAN port automatically. So you can plug the Ethernet cable coming from the N66U directly in to the AC68U WAN port.

When using AP mode on ASUS routers, it's best to use different/unique SSIDs, otherwise you'll get lots of errors in log since it's a bridge (smart bridge). So for best results, use different SSIDs and different non overlapping channels. However, based on numerous reports on this forum, you can use the same SSIDs as main router (N66U), but you will definitely get lots of errors in log with apparently no serious ill effects.

ASUS' AP mode is the equivalent to Linksys' Bridge Mode. Both are wired cascades. Both have the same issues with using the same SSID. Linksys' literature says don't use same SSIDs. ASUS' literature doesn't mention it, but due to the errors in the ASUS logs, one could assume that different SSIDs is the way to go here.

The traditional LAN to LAN cascade on an ASUS isn't really an option. Which is why they have AP mode.

Edit: ASUS routers have an advanced setting that will allow you to roam easier.....once you configure it.

 

[sfx2000]

Thanks for adding the comment specific to the ASUS device - I knew it was around there somewhere...

For SSID's - really depends on the Use Case at hand - and that's why most, if not all vendors, have the capability to change the SSID for the "other" radio.

See what works best...if you have a lot of mobile devices that move around the office, a common SSID might be easier to manage - if most of the clients are fixed, then perhaps using different SSID's might work better...

 

[jlake]

Thanks for adding the comment specific to the ASUS device - I knew it was around there somewhere...

For SSID's - really depends on the Use Case at hand - and that's why most, if not all vendors, have the capability to change the SSID for the "other" radio.

See what works best...if you have a lot of mobile devices that move around the office, a common SSID might be easier to manage - if most of the clients are fixed, then perhaps using different SSID's might work better...

Yeah my post is specific to ASUS AP mode and Linksys' Bridge mode. ASUS doesn't really have a workable traditional LAN to LAN cascade per se. Again, with an ASUS in AP mode or a linksys in bridge mode, different/unique SSIDs is preferred, but not mandatory. If you choose same SSIDs, just be prepared for errors and some conflicts. Especially if you are forwarding a port(s) to a device connected to the secondary router. If you're not forwarding any ports, it's probably not going to be a big deal......other than errors in log.

ASUS' AP mode and Linksys' bridge mode has the advantage of allowing you to forward ports to a device connected to the secondary router (which is very important to many people) This, of course, is not possible with the traditional LAN to LAN cascade.

It is a little surprising to me that the LAN to LAN cascade is still suggested on this forum for ASUS routers when there's hundreds of posts specific to ASUS routers and AP mode. Change is difficult I guess.

 

[azazel1024]

Thanks for adding the comment specific to the ASUS device - I knew it was around there somewhere...

For SSID's - really depends on the Use Case at hand - and that's why most, if not all vendors, have the capability to change the SSID for the "other" radio.

See what works best...if you have a lot of mobile devices that move around the office, a common SSID might be easier to manage - if most of the clients are fixed, then perhaps using different SSID's might work better...

This has been my experience trying a lot of stuff. Seperate SSIDs for the different bands or for the different access point tends to cause roaming issues. Clients are more likely to stick with a low signal strength AP longer than they should or will not use the faster band (often 5GHz if near the router/access point). I find the only time to use different SSIDs for the different bands is if you have a use case where you need certain clients connected to one band and only that one band (IE you need to perm offload some to 5GHz and make sure they don't choose 2.4GHz or something).

Same SSID for everything and clients seem to make better roaming decisions and connect to the faster band. YMMV however, but I have done a lot of testing with a lot of clients.

 

[F1nchy]

The ASUS AC68U has a mode called "AP mode". If you're going to use the AC68U as an AP, then put it in AP mode. When you do that, the WAN port on the AC68U becomes a LAN port automatically. So you can plug the Ethernet cable coming from the N66U directly in to the AC68U WAN port.

Ah, brilliant, thank you for confirming that! I hadn't been able to find that so that's good to hear!

Edit: ASUS routers have an advanced setting that will allow you to roam easier.....once you configure it.

Ah, that sounds useful. Do you know what it's called/where it is in the UI? I have Merlin's firmware on my N66U and will probably put the same on the AC68.

 

[jlake]

It's called "Roaming assistant". It's in the professional settings for wireless.

 

[F1nchy]

OK, so the AC68U has arrived. Just setting up the wireless. I've installed Merlin's firmware and put the AC68U into AP mode (which has reduced the number of options available in the UI menu).

If I am going to have them sharing the same wireless what options do I need to set? Just the same SSID and WPA? Or do they need fixed channels or left auto? And if fixed, the same or different?

Are there any other settings that need turning on/changing to make sure they are working together? I've set 'roaming assistant' as on for both routers (and for 2.4 and 5 on both).