An Asus Wifi 6E question no Tech outlet will answer

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sanke1

Senior Member
I have RT-AX88U and it does 160 Mhz on 5 Ghz so that my Intel AX210 which is Wifi6E connects at 2400 Mbps on 5 Ghz. My iPhone 12 connects at 1200 Mbps.

Now the question.....
Will current gen Wifi 6E phones like Samsung S21 Ultra, Asus ROG 5, OnePlus 9 Pro be able to connect at full 2400 Mbps to my RT-AX88U without using the 6 Ghz radio? I want to avoid wasting money on Wifi 6E router.
 

bbunge

Part of the Furniture
The AX210 is a 2x2 card. The phones are likely 1x1 and thus will not connect at a higher bandwidth. They are after all just phones not computers!
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture

sanke1

Senior Member
The AX210 is a 2x2 card. The phones are likely 1x1 and thus will not connect at a higher bandwidth. They are after all just phones not computers!
iphone 12 is 2x2 wifi design. It doesn’t support 160 Mhz Channel Width. That’s why 1200 Mbps max link speeds.
 

ColinTaylor

Part of the Furniture
iphone 12 is 2x2 wifi design. It doesn’t support 160 Mhz Channel Width. That’s why 1200 Mbps max link speeds.
I think you've answered your own question. You need to research the capabilities of your devices because this is a client issue not a router issue.
 

sanke1

Senior Member
I think you've answered your own question. You need to research the capabilities of your devices because this is a client issue not a router issue.
No the question still remains unanswered. So far, I haven't come across amy article or any video whether the 3 mentioned phones connect at full 2400 Mbps link on AX Routers which are just Wifi 6 with 160 Mhz and NOT Wifi 6E.

I know that they will connect at 2400 Mbps on GT-AXE11000 or Zen Wifi ET8 due to presense of 6 Ghz radio.
 

wouterv

Very Senior Member
There is two sides to observe:
  1. The router.
  2. The client device (your phone or what ever device).
If the specifications of both sides do match, then the maximum performance shall at least in theory be possible.
Regarding 802.11ax: the standard is defined but equipment does not need to support all features of the standard and manufacturers can be very unclear in what their products do actually support.

The 802.11ax standard does support the following (and more):
  • Up to 8 data streams. Most equipment does support only 1, 2 or 3 data streams.
  • Four bandwidths: 20 MHz, 40 MHz, 80 MHz and 160 MHz. Most common are 40 MHz and 80 MHz.
  • Three frequency bands: 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz and 6 GHz. Most common are 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz, equipment supporting 6 GHz is slowly entering the market.
  • For 5 GHz and 6 GHz, the following data rates can be reached with a single data stream (more data streams add up to each other):
    • 20 MHz: 143.4 Mbps.
    • 40 MHz: 286.8 Mbps.
    • 80 MHz: 600.5 Mbps.
    • 160 MHz: 1201 Mbps.
Be aware that most client devices can connect to a single frequency out of 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz and 6 GHz at a time. Routers are often advertised with the sum of all data streams of all frequency bands.

With the above you can calculate what maximum (theorethical) throughput you can expect by checking the bandwidth and the number of data streams that both ends of the connection do support.

Conditions, distance and disturbance at the given location usually result in lower throughputs.
Mixing older and newer standards (e.g. 802.11n with 802.11ax equipment on the same network) can cause performance degradadtion.
Hardware of different manufacturers can also cause less performance when used together, usually that will enhance (or get worse...) when new drivers for the hardware are released.
 

sanke1

Senior Member
There is two sides to observe:
  1. The router.
  2. The client device (your phone or what ever device).
If the specifications of both sides do match, then the maximum performance shall at least in theory be possible.
Regarding 802.11ax: the standard is defined but equipment does not need to support all features of the standard and manufacturers can be very unclear in what their products do actually support.

The 802.11ax standard does support the following (and more):
  • Up to 8 data streams. Most equipment does support only 1, 2 or 3 data streams.
  • Four bandwidths: 20 MHz, 40 MHz, 80 MHz and 160 MHz. Most common are 40 MHz and 80 MHz.
  • Three frequency bands: 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz and 6 GHz. Most common are 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz, equipment supporting 6 GHz is slowly entering the market.
  • For 5 GHz and 6 GHz, the following data rates can be reached with a single data stream (more data streams add up to each other):
    • 20 MHz: 143.4 Mbps.
    • 40 MHz: 286.8 Mbps.
    • 80 MHz: 600.5 Mbps.
    • 160 MHz: 1201 Mbps.
Be aware that most client devices can connect to a single frequency out of 2.4 GHz, 5 GHz and 6 GHz at a time. Routers are often advertised with the sum of all data streams of all frequency bands.

With the above you can calculate what maximum (theorethical) throughput you can expect by checking the bandwidth and the number of data streams that both ends of the connection do support.

Conditions, distance and disturbance at the given location usually result in lower throughputs.
Mixing older and newer standards (e.g. 802.11n with 802.11ax equipment on the same network) can cause performance degradadtion.
Hardware of different manufacturers can also cause less performance when used together, usually that will enhance (or get worse...) when new drivers for the hardware are released.
You still don't know the answer to my specific question.
 

ColinTaylor

Part of the Furniture
You still don't know the answer to my specific question.
Here are the specs for your router:
802.11a : up to 54 Mbps
802.11b : up to 11 Mbps
802.11g : up to 54 Mbps
WiFi 4 (802.11n) : up to 600 Mbps
WiFi 4 (802.11n) (1024QAM) : up to 1000 Mbps
WiFi 5 (802.11ac) : up to 3466 Mbps
WiFi 5 (802.11ac) (1024QAM) : up to 4333 Mbps
WiFi 6 (802.11ax) (2.4GHz) : up to 1148 Mbps
WiFi 6 (802.11ax) (5GHz) : up to 4804 Mbps
As you can see it is capable of up to 4804 Mbps on 5GHz (using 4 streams and 160 MHz channel width). So whether any particular phone can connect at those speeds will be down to each individual phone model. We can't research every single phone for you, that's something you need to find out for yourself. This is a router forum not a mobile phone forum.
 

avtella

Very Senior Member
If your phones support HT160 they should connect at 2.4 Gbps link rate when signal conditions are amenable to it…. If they can on 6Ghz they should on 5Ghz as well, if anything higher chance of those phones sustaining the higher link rates on 5 GHz as 6Ghz on current routers is relatively weaker.

I’m sure there will be exceptions to that, for example I can see some manufacturers like Apple in the future iPhone 14 if it comes with 6E enabling HT160 only for 6Ghz as there are more non overlapping sections. They also only allow HT20 on 2.4 GHz which is understandable.

Having said that unlike a laptop I’m not sure such high link rates make much of difference on phones for what’s generally done with them other than looking good on paper/speed tests.
 
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wouterv

Very Senior Member
You still don't know the answer to my specific question.
You are like that client I had years ago who always called me first before reading the f* manual himself.
Calling me because I could issue the answer quicker than himself searching the manual.
Here are the Samsung S21 Ultra spec, found with a search phrase "Samsung S21 Ultra specifications".
Scroll down, I assume you are willing to do so, then halfway the page in the right hand column (right as where your thumb sits left) is clearly shown what you are looking for.
Don't blame me for wrong information, it is Samsung who issues the given data.
 

Paliv

Regular Contributor
The other question is what use case requires this kind of connection for a phone? Most services won’t hit half this speed online, and what is a phone needing this speed for on an internal network? The router clearly supports 5G with 160Mhz width, the rest is up to the clients.
 

sanke1

Senior Member
You are like that client I had years ago who always called me first before reading the f* manual himself.
Calling me because I could issue the answer quicker than himself searching the manual.
Here are the Samsung S21 Ultra spec, found with a search phrase "Samsung S21 Ultra specifications".
Scroll down, I assume you are willing to do so, then halfway the page in the right hand column (right as where your thumb sits left) is clearly shown what you are looking for.
Don't blame me for wrong information, it is Samsung who issues the given data.
I am going to ignore your personal remarks.

Samsung's webpage mentions this:
Download and upload speeds reaching up to 2.4Gbps only available with Wi-Fi 6E. Wi-Fi 6E only supported on Galaxy S21 Ultra 5G

So I assume that Galaxy S21 Ultra does 2.4 Gbps only on 6 Ghz bands and won't do that speed on 5 Ghz 160 Mhz bands of RT-AX88U, GT-AX11000, RT-AX86U, RT-AX92U and so on....

If such trend in phones continue, it's really a bitter pill for us to swallow and upgrade to costly 6E routers.

If someone has one of these phones Asus ROG 5, OnePlus 9 Pro to verify this, it will greatly help.

On a side note, newly released Asus Zen Wifi ET8 router does not do 160 Mhz on 5 Ghz. It does on 6 Ghz only. Probably a sign of things to come and has potential to make current 5Ghz routers redundant if you want newest phones and fastest Wifi link speeds.
 
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wouterv

Very Senior Member
I am going to ignore your personal remarks.

Samsung's webpage mentions this:


So I assume that Galaxy S21 Ultra does 2.4 Gbps only on 6 Ghz bands and won't do that speed on 5 Ghz 160 Mhz bands of RT-AX88U, GT-AX11000, RT-AX86U, RT-AX92U and so on....

If such trend in phones continue, it's really a bitter pill for us to swallow and upgrade to costly 6E routers.

If someone has one of these phones Samsung S21 Ultra, Asus ROG 5, OnePlus 9 Pro to verify this, it will greatly help.
You know what, I am going to ignore you.
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
I can understand not 'believing' what members are offering.

But not believing what Samsung themselves states on their website is baffling.

The current and future routers that offer 6E Wi-Fi are not to blame for the specifications of client devices. Your position stuns me.

Buyer beware is more on-point today than it ever was before.

Buy the new hardware only if it gives you immediate benefits you can see with your current network client mix. Don't buy based on current promises of future capabilities.
 

sanke1

Senior Member
But not believing what Samsung themselves states on their website is baffling.

Don't put words into my mouth. I never said I don't believe Samsung's website. Asus and OnePlus might have different Wifi chipsets so they can have different specs for wifi.
 

wouterv

Very Senior Member
The other question is what use case requires this kind of connection for a phone? Most services won’t hit half this speed online, and what is a phone needing this speed for on an internal network? The router clearly supports 5G with 160Mhz width, the rest is up to the clients.
I was thinking the same.
In old days we wondered how we would ever fill the 10 MB harddisk of the good old IBM PC and wonder why the PC would ever need more than 640 kilo byte memory.
The law that applies here, like any storage space: no matter how much storage space you have, it will sooner or later be full.
The same applies to throughput, either wired or wireless. Long ago and for quite a while we were happy with 802.11g with 54 Mbps (which was much better and more stable then 802.11b with only 11 Mbps).
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
What words am I putting into your mouth? You quote the Samsung specifications page and then ask users of certain phones to verify. ???

Go look up those phones' specs instead and believe that.
 

sanke1

Senior Member
The other question is what use case requires this kind of connection for a phone? Most services won’t hit half this speed online, and what is a phone needing this speed for on an internal network? The router clearly supports 5G with 160Mhz width, the rest is up to the clients.

I will answer you. I have 1 Gigabit internet. The best current Wifi 6 (not having 160 channel width) phones like iPhone 11/12/13 etc can reach max 500-600 Mbps speeds on wifi. However, Intel AX200 and AX210 max out my connection at 950 Mbps speeds. I wanted to upgrade to Rog Phone 5 as it supported 160 Mhz channel width. That's why I asked this question as my budget didn't allow extra purchase of Wifi 6E router.

Intel AX210 is advertised as 1st Wifi 6E card and yet it supports 5 Ghz 160. But S21 Ultra does not.

What words am I putting into your mouth? You quote the Samsung specifications page and then ask users of certain phones to verify. ???

Go look up those phones' specs instead and believe that.

Different phones different chipsets and possibly wifi specs. Do you mean to say Samsung's wifi specs apply to Asus ROG 5 and OnePlus 9 Pro? Do you realise how ridiculous you sound?
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
I, sound ridiculous? Lol...

This is what I actually said:
Go look up those phones' specs instead and believe that.

And is basically what everybody said above too (in one form or another).

Client devices do not have to (and usually don't) have to have every single feature enabled for the wireless class they support. Deal with it.

The router that you can't afford (nor I) to buy today has no bearing on the capabilities or pitfalls of the client devices that you can consider purchasing. This is the crux of how baffling your argument sounds.
 
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