ASUS AX11000 or Archer AX11000

[Hexenhammer]

Guys, what do people here think about TP-Llnk? Can they make good products?
This Archer AX11000 is newer release [I think September 2019] vs ASUS, so it probably has some bugfixes and maybe even [maybe, who knows] will get WiFi 6E update.
Mainly it has 8 port switch over 4 in asus, it also has 2.5G port but pre-configured as WAN [no idea if it can be switched to LAN] and it has dual USB 3.0, but unlike ASUS, it has one port on each side, instead of on top of each otehr [easier to plug 2 devices] and one is port is USB-C.

I never had any ASUS or TP-Link routers, im ASUS fan in motherboards and GPUs, but most of my network hardware was always D-Link and sometimes Linksys, I kinda viewed Tp-link as discount Chinese brand, but maybe I was wrong.

Cheers

 

[Val D.]

I kinda viewed Tp-link as discount Chinese brand, but maybe I was wrong.

They have really good reliable products for years, like classic Archer C7 router, for instance. Archer A9 is a new excellent router too, Archer C2300 is very good performer for the price, Omada line products is very reliable and competing with more common brands in small business segment, etc. About Chinese brand... ASUS is in fact Chinese brand too. Taiwan is officially a territory of China (PRC). What I personally don't like about ASUS lately is increased false advertising (following industry trends) and decreased quality control (cost saving measures, perhaps). Also, I wouldn't buy either of the products you are asking about. The price is too high and WIFI 6 is still work-in-progress. For the same amount of money (or a bit more) you can get a x86 appliance, a switch and two AC access points. Then you have the options to upgrade components separately, if needed and when needed.

I'm currently using (may change in time) small business series TP-Link TL-SG108PE switch (managed with PoE) and TP-Link EAP245 V3 access points (AC1750 class with PoE). Not because I like TP-Link so much, but because of excellent price/performance ratio they offer and very good user reviews. And indeed, the products are trouble free and easy to use. My router is a x86 hardware box running pfSense Firewall. It can do whatever you want it to do, your imagination in networking is the limit. If you want to learn something new and build a really reliable high performance and enterprise class security home network, think about it. There is no comparison to consumer routers. You have many options to chose from from different manufacturers - routers, switches, access points, network controllers, etc. Some combinations may cost a lot, but you'll have a network, not a just a flashy spider-looking toy.

In case you really want an ASUS router, go for RT-AX88U. You can run Asuswrt-Merlin custom firmware on it, expanding the routers functionality even further. As per users' feedback, it is a reliable model too with one of the fastest router hardware available and excellent WiFi speed and coverage. It is also cheaper than RT-AX11000.

 

[RMerlin]

TP-Link tend to do a very poor job at keeping their firmware up-to-date. They are still using a 5-7 years old version of OpenSSL among other things, with a pretty long list of known security issues.

I haven't checked what they use for their newer models, however if they never bothered to update the previous models, then I wouldn't expect them to keep the new models up-to-date over the coming years.

 

[Val D.]

TP-Link tend to do a very poor job at keeping their firmware up-to-date.

ASUS is definitely updating the firmware more often, but still about 40 models routers were vulnerable to hacks few years back. Not to mention that ASUS update servers (for PC products) were hacked in 2019, spreading malware with updates. And they disclosed the issue 2 months after being notified by Kaspersky Lab. How often the firmware/software is updated is one thing, what is being updated and how is another. The more popular the model is, the more potential interest from hackers.

 

[RMerlin]

ASUS is definitely updating the firmware more often, but still about 40 models routers were vulnerable to hacks few years back. Not to mention that ASUS update servers (for PC products) were hacked in 2019, spreading malware with updates. And they disclosed the issue 2 months after being notified by Kaspersky Lab. How often the firmware/software is updated is one thing, what is being updated and how is another. The more popular the model is, the more potential interest from hackers.

I'm not referring to the frequency of firmware updates, but to the update of internal components. If TP-Link releases 6 updates within a year but still use the long-dead OpenSSL 1.0.1, then it's meaningless.

 

[Val D.]

I don’t know what OpenSSL version they use, but I know from experience Archer C2300 works better than RT-AC86U, both based on the same hardware platform. ASUS even cancelled one of the firmware updates recently. What’s the point in having latest components versions when the firmware has other issues?

 

[RMerlin]

I don’t know what OpenSSL version they use, but I know from experience Archer C2300 works better than RT-AC86U, both based on the same hardware platform. ASUS even cancelled one of the firmware updates recently. What’s the point in having latest components versions when the firmware has other issues?

You make it sound as if having a firewall with many known (meaning malicious actors are already actively exploiting them) security issues was better... I would take buggy over insecure. At least a bug won't compromise my entire network.

As I've often said it, it's time for SOHO router manufacturers to stop treating routers as toys, and start treating them as security appliances. Asus cleaned up their act there after the FTC slapped them with a fine. If Netgear/TP-Link/D-Link/etc haven't learned anything from it, then maybe someone should start grilling them as well over their lack of concern about security.

 

[Val D.]

At least a bug won't compromise my entire network.

And how is ASUS addressing a bug that shuts down your entire network? Did they recall the product or issue a refund to customers? It’s a great security feature, no doubt about it. Business first, customer second. Selling toys is a good description. Not ASUS only, all of them.

 

[Hexenhammer]

They have really good reliable products for years, like classic Archer C7 router, for instance. Archer A9 is a new excellent router too, Archer C2300 is very good performer for the price, Omada line products is very reliable and competing with more common brands in small business segment, etc. About Chinese brand... ASUS is in fact Chinese brand too. Taiwan is officially a territory of China (PRC). What I personally don't like about ASUS lately is increased false advertising (following industry trends) and decreased quality control (cost saving measures, perhaps). Also, I wouldn't buy either of the products you are asking about. The price is too high and WIFI 6 is still work-in-progress. For the same amount of money (or a bit more) you can get a x86 appliance, a switch and two AC access points. Then you have the options to upgrade components separately, if needed and when needed.

I'm currently using (may change in time) small business series TP-Link TL-SG108PE switch (managed with PoE) and TP-Link EAP245 V3 access points (AC1750 class with PoE). Not because I like TP-Link so much, but because of excellent price/performance ratio they offer and very good user reviews. And indeed, the products are trouble free and easy to use. My router is a x86 hardware box running pfSense Firewall. It can do whatever you want it to do, your imagination in networking is the limit. If you want to learn something new and build a really reliable high performance and enterprise class security home network, think about it. There is no comparison to consumer routers. You have many options to chose from from different manufacturers - routers, switches, access points, network controllers, etc. Some combinations may cost a lot, but you'll have a network, not a just a flashy spider-looking toy.

In case you really want an ASUS router, go for RT-AX88U. You can run Asuswrt-Merlin custom firmware on it, expanding the routers functionality even further. As per users' feedback, it is a reliable model too with one of the fastest router hardware available and excellent WiFi speed and coverage. It is also cheaper than RT-AX11000.

Is PFsense hard to configure? Does it have nice UI?
What I can do is grab one of the 260$ [209$ on sale] 10 port multigig netgear switches, x2 10G, x2 5G and x2 2.5G rest 1G ports, for access point I can use my current router, it has good signal, DIR-882 i think its rated here on the sites rating in top 5 or 6. so i live on 3rd story apartment and my parking is across, not below building but kind of 100 meter away and not across my window, i cant see my car from my window at all, and sitting inside my car with closed door i get both 5G and 2.4G signals, today I even run Speedtest and got 120Mbps down and upload maxed out 100Mbps.
Anyway for the "Brains" I can get one of the specialty build Intel Celeron boxes made for pfsense, no fan fully silent, sold on amazon and aliexpress, has from 2 to 6 Intel 1G ports, or I can use RouterOS based Ethernet only router HEX S with 256MB of RAM, I ordered it from amazon because it has one SFP for my fiber internet and wanted to use it in Bridge mode connected to my router, also I plan to build Rasbery Pi 4 based PiHole box, I heard it can also act as DHCP, but I never used and have no idea if it does firewall too.
I checked some of the RouterOS settings and its a headache, way too many options and complicated, its something you actually need to learn and look up videos of features explained its not just pick up and use if you had prior knowledge in otehr network devices, so thats why im asking if PFsense is complicated like RouterOS?
Can it also do Load Balancing? I want to bond my old 500MB cable with new 1G Fiber for both speed and backup.

That AX11000 router has one big plus for me, why Im interested, I seen some reviews doing SSD benchmarks to USB 3.0 and 2.5G Ethernet to PC [Best case scenario to get actual possible USB speed] and it was doing 148MB/s read and write, so I can get one of them USB 3.0 4-Disk racks, either RAID based or no RAID and just plug it in and ill have something that faster then most Classical NAS boxes that limited by 1G Ethernet port, my PC will get max speed [10G Aquantilla and AX200 wifi Intel build in].
Also because it has 2.5 port in future I can get MultiGiG switch like the one above I mentioned, connect it to 2.5G to router to get 300MB/s "fastpath" and all the rest of my devices will be pluged into switch.

Both solutions work, ASUS will give me for now ease of use, and out of the box load balancing, USB Based NAS option and gaming options, including WTF or whatever its called and ill be able to upgrade it later by adding MultiGIG Switch.
Your solution is more PRO, will get me more control over my network, but will be more complicated and right now will lack AX [which i dont have any clients anyway]

 

[Val D.]

Is PFsense hard to configure? Does it have nice UI?

It all depends what level of networking knowledge you start from. You don't have to know much to install it and run it, but you need to learn how to tune it according to your needs. It doesn't have to be on the same day. You can install it and use it as a regular router at first, the start learning and expanding functionality one step at a time. Tutorials for non-technical users are readily available - installation, initial setup, packet inspection packages, IP/DNS blocking packages, network monitoring, QoS tuning, VLANs, VPNs, etc.... you can start using it and then go forward one component at a time. Just to warn you - it's addictive. Once you know what are you doing and you understand the logic behind it, you have unlimited options. UI is nice and well organized for a networking OS. You won't play 3D games there anyway.

That AX11000 router has one big plus for me, why Im interested, I seen some reviews doing SSD benchmarks to USB 3.0 and 2.5G Ethernet to PC [Best case scenario to get actual possible USB speed] and it was doing 148MB/s read and write, so I can get one of them USB 3.0 4-Disk racks, either RAID based or no RAID and just plug it in and ill have something that faster then most Classical NAS boxes

Don't believe marketing materials. You'll be deeply disappointed. I've done some tests on RT-AC86U and it's pathetic. Reads up to 110Mbps for few seconds, then falls down to 0, then shoots up again, then falls down to 0, etc. ASUS file share implementation in my experience is one of the worst, only to claim it as an extra feature. The ASUS pursuit of 100-in-1 router dream. Forget about it. This is a router and will never achieve real NAS performance. Large file transfers were even crashing RT-AC86U, only reboot could recover it. Other users here on SNB (@Grisu) showed how a proper software should behave with attached storage (on a different router model/manufacturer). Even cheaper Archer C2300 does the job much better than RT-AC86U. I never tested USB performance on RT-AX11000, but knowing what software runs on other ASUS models on same hardware platform... I don't have any high expectations. Just save your money and get yourself a real NAS.

 

[RMerlin]

And how is ASUS addressing a bug that shuts down your entire network?

What bug? I'm not aware of any such bug. I've had customers reaching close to a year of uptime with their Asus router. My own RT-AX88U reached 35 days a few days ago with the same wifi driver that some claim is "completely broken", and my wifi device never experienced a single disconnection.

If you are referring to the reboot issue some are expecting and is apparently unique to a very small number of RT-AC86U, well you just DID take your entire network down by rebooting the router, so it's not as if it will randomly take your network down without you even being aware of... Plus, I've owned an RT-AC86U since launch time (I actually have a pre-launch demo unit if I remember), I've done more reboots on my RT-AC86U during development that most people will do in their entire life, and mine has never failed to reboot, not a single time. So, I don't believe it to be a widespread problem - it's actually quite rare, and only seems to happen under a very specific scenario or with a very specific batch of routers. So, a router that might sometime not complete a reboot when you reboot it manually is hardly a network-breaking issue.

Again, I would take such a router over any D-Link router that has embedded backdoors which would put my entire network at risk.

 

[Val D.]

and mine has never failed to reboot, not a single time.

The last two new ones I had in my hands both turned off during first software update reboot, both manufactured in 2019. If you want, I can get another one and repeat the procedure, make a video and send it to you. I'm pretty sure it won't take much time to reproduce the issue. The one I had on my network was pretty good, actually - one fail in about 30-40 reboots. It was manufactured in 2017.

Again, I would take such a router over any D-Link router that has embedded backdoors which would put my entire network at risk.

OK, we have ASUS as an option. You know best what is included in their firmware, no question about it. Who else we can trust though in your opinion? What other manufacturers in consumer segment take security more seriously? Linksys, ZyXEL, Netgear... what's the situation there? If you can't answer this question for some reason, it's OK. It's getting hard to recommend a home router lately.

 

[Frankflash]

You make it sound as if having a firewall with many known (meaning malicious actors are already actively exploiting them) security issues was better... I would take buggy over insecure. At least a bug won't compromise my entire network.

As I've often said it, it's time for SOHO router manufacturers to stop treating routers as toys, and start treating them as security appliances. Asus cleaned up their act there after the FTC slapped them with a fine. If Netgear/TP-Link/D-Link/etc haven't learned anything from it, then maybe someone should start grilling them as well over their lack of concern about security.

did'nt the FTC slapp Dlink in the USA for not updating their secuity in their firmware

 

[Val D.]

did'nt the FTC slapp Dlink in the USA for not updating their secuity in their firmware

Looks like they did:
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/cases-proceedings/132-3157/d-link

I didn't find anything about TP-Link though. It was announced in 2019 TP-Link routers were vulnerable to hacks, but with the default password left unchanged. Now, every router with the default password unchanged is an easier target, no matter what model/manufacturer.

What about ASUS mobile app opening access from WAN? How secure is that feature? The app at some point wasn't even telling the customers what exactly changes it requires in order to work properly (kind of... properly).

 

[RMerlin]

Who else we can trust though in your opinion? What other manufacturers in consumer segment take security more seriously? Linksys, ZyXEL, Netgear... what's the situation there?

Security-wise, I would have to recommend a prosummer product (like Ubiquiti). Microtik are also an option, but I find them a bit painful to manage, as they come with a steep learning curve. I can't recommend any specific model however, I'm not familiar enough with their product lines.

I only personally checked D-Link, Netgear and TP-Link there to see how up-to-date their components were. Netgear wasn't as bad as the two others, and I haven't checked how their products based on OpenWRT/Duma were in terms of component updates. I also haven't checked the more recent Linksys products, but I'm always worried with them on whether they will still be around to provide support in the near future, as they seem to be passed along owners as a hot potato for some reason. They've been fairly discrete since landing in Belkin's hands.

No idea about Zyxel, their product aren't really available around here.

Beyond that, I would consider a device that supports OpenWRT, possibly moving the wifi portion to an AP. That AP can be from any of the usual suspects (Asus or Netgear would be my primary choices), as they won't be fronting your Internet connection, therefore not be such a security concern.

 

[RMerlin]

did'nt the FTC slapp Dlink in the USA for not updating their secuity in their firmware

They did, but I don't know if anything came out of it, or if the case is still being discussed. They certainly don't seem to have cleared their acts yet, as a large number of their products were found to have (yet again) major security flaws back in November, and D-Link's answer was they would not fix it, as they considered the affected products to be EOL.

What about ASUS mobile app opening access from WAN? How secure is that feature? The app at some point wasn't even telling the customers what exactly changes it requires in order to work properly (kind of... properly).

Not sure if it still forces the web access to be enabled on the WAN, but if it does, I would avoid that.

 

[Deleted member 22229]

Netgear wasn't as bad as the two others,

Forget Netgear. They may provide security fixes but refuse or are unaware of the same bugs that have plagued users for years. So to release a security fix only to leave the same broken code in place in my opinion is totally complacent.

 

[Frankflash]

Forget Netgear. They may provide security fixes but refuse or are unaware of the same bugs that have plagued users for years. So to release a security fix only to leave the same broken code in place in my opinion is totally complacent.

May be Symantec runs netgear