Blocked by Fiber Folk's Box

[JT Strickland]

I have been looking forward for over a year for the new fiber line with Gb/s up and down, but am sorely disappointed. They want to furnish a zyxel modem/router even though they told me more than once I could use my equipment but they couldn't troubleshoot from their office. However, they won't help me a little bit to get my internet going. Tech hooked up the box yesterday morning and said here it is.

Now I will have a conflict with a double dhcp server/ double nat even if I could get it to work with their box and my router. I'm hoping you guys can tell me how to eliminate their box all together.

I am happy with my routers and system as it is, and have no desire to trade down my RT-AX86's for a downgrade. I've got AsusWRT-Merlin firmware and custom scripts running and everything is configured and running smoother than ever, and I am happy with what I have. I am currently using my old internet provider, and may take the fiber folk's box back if I can't get mine to work with the fiber line.

 

[RMerlin]

Check with your ISP if it's possible to put their device into bridged mode, so it will only act as a modem, and your own router can handle the routing part.

 

[XIII]

Or put your ASUS router in the DMZ zone of the ISP router and disable WiFi on the ISP router.

I had to do this after switching from cable to fiber.

I would prefer bridge mode, as RMerlin suggested (that was my setup with the cable ISP), but the fiber ISP does not support that.

 

[Jeffrey Young]

You can look at taking the ISP stuff out and replacing with a media converter - depending of what kind of connections your ISP uses (SFP, ect.). You will need to know if your ISP uses any special protocol requirements (vlans).

If the connector is a SFP, Make sure you keep the ISP SFP connector. Ma Bell in my parts uses a coded SFP connector as authentication method on their network.

You can also call your ISP and discuss. It may be just an ordering error. See if they provide a straight up ONT box.

 

[JT Strickland]

Thanks a lot, that will help. So far they have been reluctant to tell me anything, I don't know why.
It looks like they use IPoE based on their router, but don't know much else yet.

 

[JT Strickland]

The tech with the ISP finally called me today and said I didn't need anything further, just connect to their "modem" with my router. It's not working. Rebooted. Still not working. He suggested power down both router and modem for 2 minutes. Still not working.

I think there is something that must be changed on my router, like virtual server and/ or something else. He said I don't need a password and user to use the fiber line.

I asked about bridging but he said that wasn't a possibility.

I tried a dual wan with theirs to work on, but can't get anything out of their line yet.

Or put your ASUS router in the DMZ zone of the ISP router and disable WiFi on the ISP router.

I had to do this after switching from cable to fiber.

I would prefer bridge mode, as RMerlin suggested (that was my setup with the cable ISP), but the fiber ISP does not support that.

I finally got it going by putting it in the DMZ as you said and disabled their WiFi. I know there are other companies and people that use their own equipment. Why they wouldn't tell me anything I don't know. Unless they didn't know, but that's unlikely.

I had to reset my local ip to something higher than the ISP router, and now I am trying to do damage control to see what to fis.

I thank all of you, I appreciate you guys.

 

[Jeffrey Young]

Being forced to use ISP equipment (and regulatory bodies not sticking up for the public) has long been a sticky point for a lot of folks. Myself included. I have read stories the last few days about Ma Bell throttling traffic speeds as soon as they detect you changed out their HUB for a media converter. Too many prying eyes in the background when ISP's are not controlled.

That is my conspiracy theory post for the day

 

[JT Strickland]

My ISP doesn't charge anything for their equipment, so it's a pretty good give away why they want to use theirs: To monitor and control, although they say they are not going to do it. Why else would they not want me using my equipment?

It's kinda limping along, but it's sure not an ideal situation. I've got logs like "Let's_Encrypt: Err, DDNS update failed" to deal with while doing damage control for known issues to see what else is broken.

I'm going to keep trying to find out how to connect direct if possible, or at least how to disable the other router without crash and burn.

Any tips are appreciated.

 

[JT Strickland]

You can look at taking the ISP stuff out and replacing with a media converter - depending of what kind of connections your ISP uses (SFP, ect.). You will need to know if your ISP uses any special protocol requirements (vlans).

If the connector is a SFP, Make sure you keep the ISP SFP connector. Ma Bell in my parts uses a coded SFP connector as authentication method on their network.

You can also call your ISP and discuss. It may be just an ordering error. See if they provide a straight up ONT box.

Will something like this work?
The ISP furnishes a ONT box with ethernet/ telephone receptacle connections.

 

[RMerlin]

Why else would they not want me using my equipment?

To reduce technical support costs of dealing with customers using incompatible or sub-optimal equipment is another reason.

 

[JT Strickland]

To reduce technical support costs of dealing with customers using incompatible or sub-optimal equipment is another reason.

You are right, of course, but I think they should make available the protocol and parameters necessary to connect to their system.
But I can see how they could spend a lot of time answering questions regarding different equipment and settings.

 

[Jeffrey Young]

Will something like this work?
The ISP furnishes a ONT box with ethernet/ telephone receptacle connections.

View attachment 38462

If you already have a ethernet port at the ont box (not a router), then you don't need a media converter. Just need to know about any special protocol requirements.

That box is what you would use if the fibre termination into the ISP modem is a SFP connector.

 

[Jeffrey Young]

To reduce technical support costs of dealing with customers using incompatible or sub-optimal equipment is another reason.

I do agree in principle with you, however, most of their functions are basic and lack even basic ability to use bridge mode. If the ISP equipment were of any quality, it would be less of a problem for more advanced users.

 

[JT Strickland]

If you already have a ethernet port at the ont box (not a router), then you don't need a media converter. Just need to know about any special protocol requirements.

That box is what you would use if the fibre termination into the ISP modem is a SFP connector.

That's kinda what I thought too, but this is all new to me.
If I can figure out their port forwarding setup in the ISP box, at least I think it will be in a usable state until something changes.

I have built a bit of rapport with one of the techs. I'm going to ask him some questions when his shift is on about some basics that they can talk about.

 

[tl3000]

Just curious, is your fiber setup using the ZyXEL PMG5617GA/PMG5622GA?

If so, might check with your ISP and see if they could/would replace it with a ZyXEL PMG1005-T20B or equivalent?

Good luck!

 

[JT Strickland]

Just curious, is your fiber setup using the ZyXEL PMG5617GA/PMG5622GA?

If so, might check with your ISP and see if they could/would replace it with a ZyXEL PMG1005-T20B or equivalent?

Good luck!

Its a Zyxel EMG 6726-B10A
I'm gonna check on a static ip. They might swap boxes for that, I'll ask tomorrow.
Thanks!

 

[HTMLSpinnr]

Looking at https://www.zyxel.com/us/en/uploads/images/EMG6726-B10A_CAF.pdf , this device - on paper - supports bridge mode. There are no SFP interfaces, so the media conversion is done downstream. There's no technical reason for it to even be in place other than them creating a standardized infrastructure for supportability.

 

[JT Strickland]

The Zyxel EMG6726-B10A shows Start Port and End Port and Translation Start Port and Translation End Port, server IP address (private address of my router?), a Configure Originating IP check box, and protocol (TCP/UDP). I'm unsure what goes where on this one.

 

[JT Strickland]

Looking at https://www.zyxel.com/us/en/uploads/images/EMG6726-B10A_CAF.pdf , this device - on paper - supports bridge mode. There are no SFP interfaces, so the media conversion is done downstream. There's no technical reason for it to even be in place other than them creating a standardized infrastructure for supportability.

I wonder why my router won't work plugged into the ONT? The tech said it should. Could it be my DNS over TLS or DNS servers maybe?

 

[HTMLSpinnr]

Have you tried cloning the MAC address of the existing router's WAN interface to your router before connecting to the ONT? DNS servers would only affect name resolution.

First, make sure the router receives an IP address on the WAN interface via DHCP. Assuming no 802.1x, PPPoE, IPoE, hostname, or other DHCP field requirements, it should just work. The ONT may be looking for the MAC of the old router. Assuming you've rebooted the ONT after connecting your router, if it's not getting an IP even w/ a cloned MAC address, there's an authentication bit missing.

DNS server symptom would be WAN interface receiving an IP but browser or other clients unable to resolve hostnames.