Dual ISP and router printing problem

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loady

Regular Contributor
This house i live in i gave up trying to get connection around the house with one router and isp, tried power lines, wireless bridging, i gave up in the end because the problem was always going to be double NAT. I got a new fibre connection in upstairs for myself and still have the other isp going downstairs.

The problem i now have is that the router upstairs i can roam around the house and get full internet speeds, however, unless i am close to the router i cant access its GUI, is the reception/range for internet access different for GUI access ?..the problem this is causing me is being able to print to the printer located downstairs as it is connected to the router upstairs, i cant connect the printer to both routers as they would have to be in the same subnet...that doesnt work with the two routers. Is there some easy solution to this ? i will layout my set up below.

NETWORK 1:

Is downstairs, it uses talktalk as the ISP and the router is a DSL-AC88U, this replaces the ISP provided router completely, the router is set to 192.168.1.xxx, i do not pay for this, my mother has it for her talktalk TV service and the speed is mediocre but usable.

NETWORK 2:

is upstairs, it is a community fibre service using my AC86U, it is set to 192.168.11.xxx internet access across the whole house is good, just access to the GUI is poor, if i stand next to the router and get into the GUI, i can go downstairs and it will remain connected for a few minutes then just flake out, is there a setting to increase GUI access, does it use a different radio to that of the internet connection ?

I quite often work downstairs on my laptop which is where the printer is located, i also need to be able to use the printer from upstairs at my desktop PC.

so how can i either increase the range of the GUI on network 2 or somehow link the two routers together, the printer can only be attached to one IP address, i dont think its possible to have the routers on the same subnet as it causes a double NAT situation and they also have their own internet connection.
 

eibgrad

Very Senior Member
As described, this is NOT a double NAT situation. Double NAT means that your router's WAN is daisy-chained to another router over its LAN, which in turn is NAT'd over its WAN to the internet. IOW, one router has to be routed through the other to reach the internet. What YOU have described is two *independent* routers, each with its own ISP, and each of which is *single* NAT'd over its WAN wrt the internet.

In such a situation, neither router has access to the other's local network unless a) you configure a third router between them, or b) you configure port forwarding on one to reach services on the other (just like any you would offer those same services to anyone else on the internet). In the case of this printer, the former would be preferred in terms of security and just general ability to share resources between the two local networks, but the latter would likely be easier to implement.

When it comes to reception on the radio, beit for whatever purpose, you may have to use a repeater to increase range and signal at some point. That could be a wireless repeater, or even another AP bridged to the primary router via ethernet, powerline, or MoCA, whatever works best.
 
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ColinTaylor

Part of the Furniture
The problem i now have is that the router upstairs i can roam around the house and get full internet speeds, however, unless i am close to the router i cant access its GUI, is the reception/range for internet access different for GUI access ?
No there is no difference between accessing the router's GUI and any other web site.

..the problem this is causing me is being able to print to the printer located downstairs as it is connected to the router upstairs,
What has being able to connect to the router's GUI got to do with printing to your printer?
 

loady

Regular Contributor
No there is no difference between accessing the router's GUI and any other web site.


What has being able to connect to the router's GUI got to do with printing to your printer?
It has to do with the fact the printer is picked up by the router, the router gives it its IP address no ?, when i add a printer it is adding it via wifi, i assume from the router, when sat next to printer it will say it is offline, if i then go upstairs next to the router the printer will spit out everything that was queued to print.
 

loady

Regular Contributor
As described, this is NOT a double NAT situation. Double NAT means that your router's WAN is daisy-chained to another router over its LAN, which in turn is NAT'd over its WAN to the internet. IOW, one router has to be routed through the other to reach the internet. What YOU have described is two *independent* routers, each with its own ISP, and each of which is *single* NAT'd over its WAN wrt the internet.

In such a situation, neither router has access to the other's local network unless a) you configure a third router between them, or b) you configure port forwarding on one to reach services on the other (just like any you would offer those same services to anyone else on the internet). In the case of this printer, the former would be preferred in terms of security and just general ability to share resources between the two local networks, but the latter would likely be easier to implement.

When it comes to reception on the radio, beit for whatever purpose, you may have to use a repeater to increase range and signal at some point. That could be a wireless repeater, or even another AP bridged to the primary router via ethernet, powerline, or MoCA, whatever works best.

Hmm, how would i go about port forwarding to the router downstairs, it is on a different subnet than the one upstairs that is linked to the printer downstairs, would that work like i would be able to log in to the downstairs router and because the upstairs one os port forwarded it would share the printer with it ?

I am trying to avoid adding more hardware, security i dont think is a concern, i manage both router/isp they are not being used by other people
 

eibgrad

Very Senior Member
Hmm, how would i go about port forwarding to the router downstairs, it is on a different subnet than the one upstairs that is linked to the printer downstairs, would that work like i would be able to log in to the downstairs router and because the upstairs one os port forwarded it would share the printer with it ?

I am trying to avoid adding more hardware, security i dont think is a concern, i manage both router/isp they are not being used by other people

The same way you would offer access to any of your services/devices to *me*; port forwarding. Let's say your printer is @ 192.168.1.100 and port 9100 (assuming that's correct) on router X. Then add a port forward to router X w/ the external port of 9100 (or whatever you prefer, might help to obscure it), internal port 9100, and internal IP of 192.168.1.100. Now clients on your other router, and me, and the rest of the world can have access to your printer by simply referencing router X's public IP and the external port.

TIP/HINT: Might be better from a security perspective to configure a VPN between the two routers than rely on port forwarding.
 
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pombiiii

New Around Here
Hi,
if the routers are physically isolated from each other, and you want to keep it like that, then some sort of VPN setup with selective routing would be your safest, most efficient option.

Another solution, however, would be to set up one of the routers in Dual-WAN mode, and connect the second WAN to the LAN side of the other router, and then define static routes to separate local traffic and send them through the 2nd WAN interface to the other router.

Both solutions are essentially the same; the only difference is that in the VPN option, the link is virtual and in the Dual-WAN option, the link is physical.

Nevertheless, I personally would go for the Dual-WAN setup, since with the VPN setup, if the internet goes down, so will your local connectivity; whereas in the Dual-WAN solution, local connectivity will remain functional regardless of internet status. Moreover, in an emergency, it can even serve as a failover internet connection, with only minor adjustments to routing settings.

Cheers
 
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loady

Regular Contributor
Another solution, however, would be to set up one of the routers in Dual-WAN mode, and connect the second WAN to the LAN side of the other router, and then define static routes to separate local traffic and send them through the 2nd WAN interface to the other router.

Both solutions are essentially the same; the only difference is that in the VPN option, the link is virtual and in the Dual-WAN option, the link is physical.

Both routers are physically isolated, so am i right to think that when you say that a dual WAN is physical as opposed to virtual then i would need to trail an ethernet cable from one router to the other ?, this is not viable, also i literally just want to be able to print downstairs.

I am also wondering if the router is slowly failing, i have been told that the connection to my laptop from router for internet is the same connection for the GUI, whilst i get full speed on the laptop wirelessly, i cant get access to the GUI unless i am closer to it, in fact i have to take the laptop to the router to let it load the GUI and then go back downstairs, it will be ok for a few minutes, enough to let the print job work then starts timing out again.
 

loady

Regular Contributor
The same way you would offer access to any of your services/devices to *me*; port forwarding. Let's say your printer is @ 192.168.1.100 and port 9100 (assuming that's correct) on router X. Then add a port forward to router X w/ the external port of 9100 (or whatever you prefer, might help to obscure it), internal port 9100, and internal IP of 192.168.1.100. Now clients on your other router, and me, and the rest of the world can have access to your printer by simply referencing router X's public IP and the external port.

TIP/HINT: Might be better from a security perspective to configure a VPN between the two routers than rely on port forwarding.

The router upstairs that is connected to the printer also run asus merlin and i have openVPN running on it which allows me to remote into the LAN from anywhere, it works well, the router downstairs is also an asus router but cant run merlin, could i still cobble some form of VPN between the two routers easily without breaking something ?
 

pombiiii

New Around Here
Both routers are physically isolated, so am i right to think that when you say that a dual WAN is physical as opposed to virtual then i would need to trail an ethernet cable from one router to the other ?, this is not viable, also i literally just want to be able to print downstairs.

I am also wondering if the router is slowly failing, i have been told that the connection to my laptop from router for internet is the same connection for the GUI, whilst i get full speed on the laptop wirelessly, i cant get access to the GUI unless i am closer to it, in fact i have to take the laptop to the router to let it load the GUI and then go back downstairs, it will be ok for a few minutes, enough to let the print job work then starts timing out again.
You are right. You would need to run a cable between the two routers in order to use the dual-wan method. If that is not feasible, then I would suggest that you deploy some sort of VPN setup, as opposed to exposing the printer to the internet through port forwarding, which would be asking for trouble.

As regards to your router failing, I think it's far likelier that the issue stems from a software problem rather than a hardware one. There is a good chance that a full hard reset of the router would make the problem go away. You might want to backup your files and settings first though, so that you can quickly restore the router afterwards.

As for the VPN solution, it will all depend on what the router downstairs is capable of supporting; but chances are that there will be something you can leverage. You might, however, need to set up some routes manually.

Cheers
 

eibgrad

Very Senior Member
The router upstairs that is connected to the printer also run asus merlin and i have openVPN running on it which allows me to remote into the LAN from anywhere, it works well, the router downstairs is also an asus router but cant run merlin, could i still cobble some form of VPN between the two routers easily without breaking something ?

Easily? I don't know enough about your setup. But if you have remote access already configured w/ OpenVPN server on one side, and the ability to configure an OpenVPN client on the other side, at least any resources on the former should be accessible from the latter. And if you need access between the two routers in both directions, you could configure the VPN as site-to-site.
 

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