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Fixing a Small Business Network

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coxhaus

Part of the Furniture
I am cleaning up my Daughter's new business network. They have little switches strung all over. I am trying to pull out all the extra switches I can and replace wires which have cuts and nicks in them. The big plan is to get longer wire in place running from a big switch but until then I need to fix all the small problems. This network has been in place many years running the way it is.

I figured out one of the switches was giving us problems on one side of the business. They are generic China made gig switches. I went to Fry's and bought 3 DLINK 8 port non-manages switches for $20 a piece. They seem to work well. I wanted cheap since this is temporary.

Back at the DMARC I pulled the small switches and replaced them with an old Cisco small business non-managed switch which I bought many years ago. I centralized all the wires into one location at the DMARC. I moved their old business Time Warner network over to Spectrum. Moving to Spectrum gained us free bandwidth. Spectrum is a 200/10 connection and Time Warner is a 100/10 connection. I also put my old Cisco RV320 router in place since they had a very old Linksys router running.

All the desktops were out of date with a virus on a couple of them. I have been putting security updates on all the PCs.

The network is running much better now. There are no more time out clocks coming up when you access the internet.

As of Monday there will be 10 people working there. They hired a new employee and they need another PC and phone. I think we are running out of good PCs. Some are just too old to use any more.
 
Sounds like a fun project, and a good example of organic growth over time (e.g. all the switches/hubs and spaghetti wiring)...
 
I setup my daughter a computer at her desk yesterday. I found a recycled Dell 7010 PC which I thought would make s good PC for cheap. There are a lot of high tech computer companies in Austin TX. They change their hardware real often. It is easy to find recycled Dell PCs. I bought a new Dell 27 inch monitor on sale at OfficeDepot $149. I have less than $500 in her computer and monitor. I set it up and it runs well. It is an Intel i7 3.4 with turbo mode. I outfitted it with 8 gig and Windows 10.

I am going to try to standardize on Dell PCs since with are in Austin Texas where Dell is located. There lots of Dell parts around. They were buying what ever PCs was on sale at Bestbuy, OfficeDepot or other stores. They have a hodge-podge of machines right now.
 
I am firm believer in the retired/recycled business class desktops no matter Dell or HP. Most are built like tanks, handle general computing just fine, and can be found for sub-$150 with a Windows license installed. My general Linux server as well as my firewall were picked up from our local electronics recycler for sub-$100 many years ago.

It is amazing what you start finding in a small business network when you go poking around. Sometimes it is amazing it even works at all.
 
Dell only because we are in Dell territory, Austin Tx. HP need not apply here. I do like Dell and there are so many machines and parts around here for cheap. The Dell OptiPlex 7010dt has the fastest processor ever installed in this PC. The CPU is a i7-3770 processor 3.4 with turbo 3.9. It runs quite nicely and is better than all the other machines in her business.
 
Dell only because we are in Dell territory, Austin Tx. HP need not apply here. I do like Dell and there are so many machines and parts around here for cheap. The Dell OptiPlex 7010dt has the fastest processor ever installed in this PC. The CPU is a i7-3770 processor 3.4 with turbo 3.9. It runs quite nicely and is better than all the other machines in her business.

Dell Latitudes are a good choice - many enterprises and large customers lease on 3 or 5 year terms, and as such, when out of lease, they get recycled back into the pipeline, either direct from the lease companies or on eBay...

Win7 based 2nd/3rd Gen Intel Core i3/i5 machines are pretty common these days, and with the Windows license code, they make a lot of sense...

HP corp and IBM ThinkCenter's are also good choices there - the ThinkCenters, IIRC, include a refresh/restore partition on the HDD, and the license code is in the BIOS...
 
All the desktops were out of date with a virus on a couple of them. I have been putting security updates on all the PCs.

You probably know this already, so this is more for the benefit of others - when setting up the new machines, the primary assigned user account should not have Admin access - this really helps when managing a small business network with 10-20 machines...
 
I am cleaning up my Daughter's new business network. They have little switches strung all over. I am trying to pull out all the extra switches I can and replace wires which have cuts and nicks in them. The big plan is to get longer wire in place running from a big switch but until then I need to fix all the small problems. This network has been in place many years running the way it is.

Friend of mine went through something similar a couple of years back, and it's an ongoing project for him...

His approach was similar - sort the network, get the PC's into some semblance of order (e.g. get licensing aligned, hot copies of Office 97, Win XP/Vista/7 Home/Pro, ad-hoc, etc)...

Once all that sorted - moved to Office 365 on Win7 for machines that could support it, retire old machines, and replace with refurbs (see comment above about HP and Think Centers).

He's moved them over to G-Suite using a hybrid approach with Office 365 - and slowly moving things over to Asus ChromeBoxes - the upside here is that since everything is essentially cloud-based, he doesn't have to do VPN for off-site workers and sales folks on the road, access control there is all managed at the application level.

ChromeBoxes do make sense to some degree - his customer was primarily Web based, and with Office 365 (and Android Apps) along with ChromeOS - updates at the App and OS level are essentially done - access policies can be centrally managed, and since things are Apps as a Service, billing is also simplified.

Less effort for him, and a better experience for his customer - G-Suite can also manage Android mobiles, and the Android Office 365 apps means that the internet access for ChromeOS is moot, work can be done offline and synced to either the G-Drive or OneDrive.
 
You probably know this already, so this is more for the benefit of others - when setting up the new machines, the primary assigned user account should not have Admin access - this really helps when managing a small business network with 10-20 machines...

I have gone back and forth on this. I don't want to create a domain where I am roped into every day support. As of right now I have not seen a need for a server or NAS. I am buying small hard drives as they are cheaper and most of their work is in the cloud. I thought about SSDs but the money saved will pay for a server or NAS.
 
I have gone back and forth on this. I don't want to create a domain where I am roped into every day support

Concur - getting the network sorted is one thing - but getting deeper into things is perhaps another...

If one goes down that path - one should have a support agreement that clearly defines the scale and scope of support - incidents as well as ongoing maintenance for updates/upgrades...
 
It's my daughter so there will be no support agreement. It will be Dad fix this. I need to be careful on what I create. Just enough to make it work well.
 
All the new Dell PCs are installed and running well. I have to say this is a pretty fast network with quick workstations. My old Cisco RV320 router is doing a good job with the new i7-3770 CPU PCs. We had 9 people all working today and the network is about as fast as you can click, it happens.
 
I guess I never stated that I ended up buying 5 Dell i7-3770 PCs. I also received a discount for buying 5 PCs which lowered the overall cost. All the PCs came with 8 gig of memory and Windows 10. I am using the digital out on the PC not VGA. Two of the PCs are setup with Dell 27 inch monitors.

The other 5 machines are good enough with the slowest PC at 2.9 GHz CPU and fairly large monitors. I set a standard of 2.4Ghz CPU being the slowest, lowest we would keep. I have 1 as a backup if any machine fails. The other PCs and small monitors were all given to Goodwill.
 
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I guess I never stated that I ended up buying 5 Dell i7-3770 PCs. I also received a discount for buying 5 PCs which lowered the overall cost. All the PCs came with 8 gig of memory and Windows 10. I am using the digital out on the PC not VGA. Two of the PCs are setup with Dell 27 inch monitors.

The other 5 machines are good enough with the slowest PC at 2.9 GHz CPU and fairly large monitors. I set a standard of 2.4Ghz CPU being the slowest, lowest we would keep. I have 1 as a backup if any machine fails. The other PCs and small monitors were all given to Goodwill.

Nice - nothing wrong with an i7-3770, esp that particular chip - pretty snappy even though it's older (Ivy Bridge) - most folks won't know/won't care for productivity apps - if the machines have spinning rust, might consider SSD's there and it'll be hard to tell them from the current state of the art...

FWIW - the Dell P2418D monitors are really good - HDMI and DisplayPort (hint, use display port) - the big deal is that they're QHD resolution (2560*1440), and they're at a good price - Dell discounts them often...
 
Processors starting with Sandy bridge age really well. On my 7-year old Sandy Bridge mac browsing is like a breeze. I'm pretty sure faster than when it was brand new. The tricks are SSD and DNS adblock. Hooked up to fast upstream DNS, loading a page is in the brink of an eye. Office applications also run well. Development work no problem. Video production might be one area that feel like slow but I seldom do.
 
On my 7-year old Sandy Bridge mac browsing is like a breeze.

Sandy Bridge has aged very nicely over the years...

My personal prefs/recommendations
  • Ivy Bridge - die shrink from SNB - similar IPC, but less power consumption and a better iGPU (22nm)
  • Haswell - Haswell was an arch step in Intel's Tick-Tock, same process as IVB, but a strong performer, and again, the iGPU is better (22nm)
  • Kaby Lake - follow up from the Skylake arch update, and 14nm process improvement, along with very good iGPU (14nm)
CannonLake (another Skylake family core) is looking very interesting, as this is another 14nm process improvement, and the turbo speeds on the i7/i9 high end cores are impressive.

I'd avoid Sandy Bridge, Broadwell, and Skylake (and anything earlier) because of where they fall within Intel's Process and iGPU scheme, aka Tick/Tock

Of course, someone ( @System Error Message ) will likely pop in with a comment about AMD/Ryzen - and I would agree with that, as the zenver arch is a big improvement over AMD's earlier efforts.
 
@sfx2000 lol i wasnt going to pop in seeing that the thread already has a long conversation, i mostly look at new threads.

reading the original thread and skipping through the convo, i can explain some things.
Firstly, when it comes to desktop use or any basic use even if it involves a user, avoid low power CPUs like intel atoms. AMD ryzen has low power variants like their dual or quad core ryzen coupled with a vega GPU but have a TDP limit, but offer decent performance, only intel cant do that at such a TDP at the moment. I also bought one of udoo's' ryzen kickstarter too which offers decent price but i'll wait on the ram for the price to drop. With intel the minimum would be the iseries pentium line as long as its not an atom based arch. Outdated hardware is fine because even a core2duo will run windows 10 fine and keep up with desktop use.

Nowadays the minimum for desktop use is 8GB but more is better. Even browsers are memory hungry nowadays because its part of their sandbox and security features that they offer. So just browsing now is memory hungry and facebook will eat up 1GB or more ram just being left on overnight. So getting more ram is better than getting a faster CPU, you can go with 2nd hand, just make sure they arent low power CPUs (this is inclusive of laptops). I just started a business and i dont have any low powered CPUs around for anyone to use, productivity is important, and 2 cores 4 threads from any decent architecture would do well as long as they are above 2Ghz for basic use, a decent amount of ram, and an SSD if you want productivity. Anyone using their computers for their livelyhood or work should get better though as when getting a PC go with this mantra, it must not be a barrier to any work it is meant for for 5 years. This means that if you get a PC for a reception desk, that PC must be able to handle MS office, browsing and so on all at once for 5 years without once lagging to the user, and any lag more than 0.4 seconds is perceivable (there is an old rule about 0.4 seconds to keep the user's attention from wading away).

If you can go with AMD ryzen, go with it over intel. 1st gen AMD ryzen with IGP is a bad selection because in the 1st gen they reused their old CPUs, so go with the 2nd gen ryzen quad cores with vega GPU as those are truely ryzen and offer better value than intel. Intels IGPs are decent and their CPUs clock high but ryzen is a better architecture overall which i have been saying for quite long which turned out true as intel's bug patches significantly reduced their performance. if you can, even for desktop use go with the quad core 2nd gen ryzen with vega GPU.

For your networking, if you want to be cable efficient you'll need a faster central switch. An example would be a 16 port SFP+/10Gbe Switch in the center and 2x 10Gb 24 1Gb port switches around. This reduces cabling a lot while ensuring you have good performance and no bottlenecks. For your router, theres no better one than x86 based, usually i'd recommend mikrotik but even pfsense is more flexible. You'll need managed (or semi managed) switches at least. If you decide to go with 10Gbe you must take care of your cabling needs because 10Gbe needs good cabling, but while SFP+ would cost more, it is less strict on the cables because you can use fiber optics easily for example, you can go with 2nd hand modules and currently mikrotik offers the cheapest 16 port SFP+ switch but while cheaper, the extra cost goes into the modules which is the only downside of SFP+. though the extra cost of getting 10Gbe can be saved from having dozens of cables going around. But for a total of 10 peeps a 24 port gigabit ethernet switch will do and it seems that you got some cisco managed ones.

Before you buy a PC, go to the shop and use it, see for yourself the performance, try having MS office in the background and using the browser simultaneously for example. Remember that if your mind wandered while you were doing a task on that PC, it probably isnt fast enough and irregardless of any business offers, avoid bloatware (HP is notorious for this). With CPUs and pricing nowadays, theres no reason you cant get a quad core PC/laptop for a low price.
 
I feel like the Intel i7 is the lowest used CPU I would buy. I think AMD is going to kill off all the i5 and below CPUs. And when I buy a used CPU I try to buy the highest clocked ones since used prices are not much different. Hence the i7-3770.

I have a 10Gbe Cisco switch I could put in. And I might but I don't think they need it. Most of their work is in the cloud. I don't even see a need for a layer 3 switch in their shop.

There network was very slow when I started working on it. They had too many switches strung together the wrong way which created time outs. My daughter would click on something in the internet and she would get a clock as she was waiting for a response. I created a fast gig core switch and fanned out from there being careful not to go over 3 switches deep. Now things are very fast when you access them.

sfx2000. All the new used machines are setup using a HDMI display port. A couple are setup using HDMI display port to DVI since the monitors only had DVI ports.
 
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I got a call from my daughter saying 2 of the machines will not print and one is slow. It is 2 of the all in one computers which were bought previously by the old owner. They were working the last time I was there. So it means I have to drive in.

Somehow the all in one computers had switched from wired to wireless which I did not even know wireless was built-in. And to make matters worst they had connected to the next doors wireless network exposing my network. Yikes, this is bad. So of course the PCs would not print and are slow, they were on a different network. I went into the network adapters and disabled the wireless. I ran outside virus scans to make sure we were still safe. The backup machine had the printer defined weird with 4 versions. I deleted all printers and reinstalled the printer drivers. All started working again.

I hope to replace all of these PCs with my Dell standard PC in the future.
 
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I feel like the Intel i7 is the lowest used CPU I would buy. I think AMD is going to kill off all the i5 and below CPUs. And when I buy a used CPU I try to buy the highest clocked ones since used prices are not much different.

Given the choice - i7 on the second-hand market - don't look past i5's - esp. with laptops - there, the i7 has a premium that might not be worth the performance difference.

Second hand - RAM is probably more relevant, and storage if not replacing with SSD's (SSD is a very cost effective bump on an older machine, and more reliable that 2 year old spinning rust)
 
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