FlexQoS vs CakeQoS vs FreshJR QoS vs ...........

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JohnD5000

Senior Member
Could someone explain, at a very high level, the differences between the various QoS being discussed here in this forum. There are so many and it if confusing for those that barely understand what a QoS is. I'm not looking for a detailed explanation, just a sentence or three that mentions the main differences of these. Yes, there are detailed threads on each of these, but they go into specific detail without discussing the very high level.

Note, I have FreshJR on since it is included as an option in amtm. Therefore, I'm assuming that was, at one time, the better choice. But, not sure on this and I'm sure there are many others here wondering this, too.

  • Asus Adaptive QoS
  • Asus Traditional QoS
  • FreshJR QoS
  • FlexQoS
  • Cake QoS
  • Auto BW QoS
  • others?
 

dave14305

Part of the Furniture
ASUS Traditional QoS is usually not preferred because it cannot take advantage of hardware acceleration (referred to sometimes as CTF or Runner, depending on your router model). So your maximum connection speed may be limited by the router CPU capability. You have to define your own rules into High, Medium, Low buckets.

ASUS Adaptive QoS can use hardware acceleration and categorizes traffic using a DPI engine from Trend Micro. Other than prioritizing the major classes (gaming, VoIP, Web Surfing, etc.), there wasn't much control over how traffic was classified. And some people are wary of Trend Micro.

Merlin improved Asus QoS by implementing fq_codel.

FreshJR_QOS fixed a lot of the early flaws in Adaptive QoS and made it customizable in how traffic is categorized and how those categories are prioritized. It also improved the minimum/maximum rates per class. If you were going to use QoS on Merlin, you needed this script to absolve the sins of Asus. FreshJR himself has been absent for nearly a year, so the script is considered abandoned, but still functional.

FlexQoS is a fork and re-write of FreshJR_QOS, intended to make it more flexible with more rules possible and make it compatible with the latest Asus classes (e.g. Work-From-Home). It's currently available in beta for AC routers running 384.18 beta1. It's built on Merlin and FreshJR_QOS.

Cake is a newer queuing discipline (like fq_codel is an older one). It's available for AC86U and AX88U (HND) routers. Not my area of expertise, since my router isn't compatible.
 
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L&LD

Part of the Furniture
Asus Adaptive QoS - misses the boat with important details that FreshJR QOS solved for its time (and the reason FreshJR QOS was created in the first place).

Asus Traditional QoS - doesn't work as far as I know for anyone.

FlexQoS - the current extension of FreshJR QOS with support for GUI and the updated categories Asus now includes in Adaptive QoS (which is needed to be enabled along with TrendMicro being allowed to use some/all parts of our browsing data to work).

Cake-QoS - an alternative for users of the RT-AC86U and RT-AX88U routers along with the added benefit of being able to completely disable (a requirement, actually) all TrendMicro 'snooping' features. :)

BW QoS - is a speed test that fed FreshJR QOS with the current average up/down speeds for the network/ISP.


All QoS should be used on lower speed connections (less than 500Mbps) and only after actually testing to see if improvements are made to specific pinch-points in network usage.

For any router running RMerlin 384.18 Beta 1 or later, FlexQoS or CakeQos with the appropriate router hardware are the only two considerations.

If you're lucky and have a router with the ISP performance and the router hardware to test both, do so. One will be a better fit than the other, overall. :)
 

danielk

Occasional Visitor
Actually a great question/post, as i was wondering about the same. I've also never used QoS, as my fear was it just takes up resources and potentially introduces unwanted behaviour. What exactly would be the benefits of using say FlexQoS on my AC68U? Who should consider using it, and when would you recommend leaving it off? Not referring to the speed limitations/recommendations already made.
 

JohnD5000

Senior Member
@dave14305 & @L&LD Thanks for the replies. That clears up a lot. I have a AC86U (and a few AC68U that I use as Mesh nodes) and have 384.18 beta1 and my service is usually in the 220-240 Mbps range according to spdMerlin.

Sounds like CakeQoS may be the better choice for me since it is newer tech and my router can handle it. Any idea whether either of these are going to come to amtm (which makes these scripts so easy to install/update)?
 

XheliPilot

Occasional Visitor
I was wondering the same thing about the different types of QOS, I didn't realize there were so many versions?

I have been getting excellent results A+ across the board on dslreports with an IQ router for the last couple of years. I believe it uses fq_codel.

The MAIN reason I purchased the IQrouter was because it was user friendly and I can set it and forget it. I will admit the wireless is subpar so I do use an AP (R7800 w Voxels).. and the hardware is not as robust as the ASUS equipment...

Question: In the future if i wanted to upgrade to one of the ASUS routers that supports cake, is this something that anyone can set up? Or do i need a engineering degree to get cake up and running lol. To be honest most of this stuff if above my pay grade.

Thanks for any feed back.

Spectrum 400/20
MB8600
IQrouter
AP- R7800 w/ Voxels
 

raion969

Regular Contributor
really great thread :D cleard up some questions :D
 

QuikSilver

Very Senior Member
@dave14305 & @L&LD Thanks for the replies. That clears up a lot. I have a AC86U (and a few AC68U that I use as Mesh nodes) and have 384.18 beta1 and my service is usually in the 220-240 Mbps range according to spdMerlin.

Sounds like CakeQoS may be the better choice for me since it is newer tech and my router can handle it. Any idea whether either of these are going to come to amtm (which makes these scripts so easy to install/update)?
my speed is 250/20 and I use flexqos. To me even though CakeQOS is a set it and forget it option, in my household I want VOIP then Streaming to be higher than everything. That on top of being able to "drill down" into the stats and traffic is why I chose flexqos. I suggest trying to stay on top of the conversations in both threads and if possible try them out on your network. If you like one more than the other let us know. You may change some of our minds as well. ;)
 

jata

Regular Contributor
Very helpful thread and big thanks to everyone contributing to QOS - Flex/Cake etc.

I have a rt-ac86u and my internet is NBN in Oz at 50/20. I have been using FreshJR and now FlexQOS on 384.18 beta1. It works great so thanks @dave14305

I wanted to try Cake and compare it with FlexQOS. Can someone explain what I need to do to easily switch between the two QOS approaches?

Thanks
 

Vexira

Part of the Furniture
@dave14305 & @L&LD Thanks for the replies. That clears up a lot. I have a AC86U (and a few AC68U that I use as Mesh nodes) and have 384.18 beta1 and my service is usually in the 220-240 Mbps range according to spdMerlin.

Sounds like CakeQoS may be the better choice for me since it is newer tech and my router can handle it. Any idea whether either of these are going to come to amtm (which makes these scripts so easy to install/update)?
Problem with cake is ists not hardware accelerated, fresh is in amtm already and flex will be soon.
 

JohnD5000

Senior Member
Problem with cake is ists not hardware accelerated, fresh is in amtm already and flex will be soon.
I am running a AC86U, from the discussion, I was under the impression that cake needed newer technology and would therefore not run on the older (ie AC68U) modems (ie Cake would be better on AC86U). Can you explain why hardware acceleration is needed on the newer modems (ie AC86U) and why Cake would therefore not be "better"?

Note, I do like the fact that Flex will soon be in amtm. Any plans for Cake?
 

Vexira

Part of the Furniture
I am running a AC86U, from the discussion, I was under the impression that cake needed newer technology and would therefore not run on the older (ie AC68U) modems (ie Cake would be better on AC86U). Can you explain why hardware acceleration is needed on the newer modems (ie AC86U) and why Cake would therefore not be "better"?

Note, I do like the fact that Flex will soon be in amtm. Any plans for Cake?
Hardware acceleration is need to achieve the higher connection speed if IRC it 200mb to 1gb which is not possible just running on the CPU alone.

I'm pretty sure @Jack Yaz had a great more in depth explanation about the issue of hardware acceleration, I know I've seen a post on it here somewhere.

The reason I can say flex is going to be there is because the freshjr QoS script is this fork super seeds it and is more compatible with the new QoS categories where as the old freshjrs is not.

As for cake I have no idea you would have to ask @thelonelycoder .
 

Markster

Senior Member
I have tested both (CakeQoS and FlexQoS) on my RT86U and after running both for few days I observed that FlexQoS is performing better with my Cable DOCSIS connection 300MB/15Mb speeds. I have noticed noticeable difference especially in latency. Overall these are both good technologies but what made me to select FlexQoS is the fine grained ability to tune and prioritize traffic. Using FlexQoS with Adoptive QoS both Runner and Cache are enabled and if you use Cake the Runner must be disabled. Hardware acceleration with Adoptive/FlexQoS make it faster when routing and controlling traffic so I am not surprised that FlexQoS performs better.

For people that have this paranoia about Trend Micro "snooping" I would say that it is very exaggerated without actual proof to the fact.
 

ugandy

Senior Member
I have tested both (CakeQoS and FlexQoS) on my RT86U and after running both for few days I observed that FlexQoS is performing better with my Cable DOCSIS connection 300MB/15Mb speeds. I have noticed noticeable difference especially in latency. Overall these are both good technologies but what made me to select FlexQoS is the fine grained ability to tune and prioritize traffic. Using FlexQoS with Adoptive QoS both Runner and Cache are enabled and if you use Cake the Runner must be disabled. Hardware acceleration with Adoptive/FlexQoS make it faster when routing and controlling traffic so I am not surprised that FlexQoS performs better.

For people that have this paranoia about Trend Micro "snooping" I would say that it is very exaggerated without actual proof to the fact.
how was your latency when you saturated the upload ? for me it was terrible
 

Markster

Senior Member
how was your latency when you saturated the upload ? for me it was terrible
Not an issue for me. I have a NAS drive on my local network and using my iPhone I forced playing movie from the NAS on my phone and at the same time using another computer to browse and stream from bbc or cnn. I cannot see any lag at all. In your case if you have many local devices streaming I honestly think you should be better off with FlexQoS as it has hardware acceleration enabled and further you can identify all devices and what they are doing allowing you to fine control the traffic.
 

JohnD5000

Senior Member
Hardware acceleration is need to achieve the higher connection speed if IRC it 200mb to 1gb which is not possible just running on the CPU alone.

I'm pretty sure @Jack Yaz had a great more in depth explanation about the issue of hardware acceleration, I know I've seen a post on it here somewhere.

The reason I can say flex is going to be there is because the freshjr QoS script is this fork super seeds it and is more compatible with the new QoS categories where as the old freshjrs is not.

As for cake I have no idea you would have to ask @thelonelycoder .


With FlexQoS, what settings do you have the Merlin QoS settings at?
I have:

Enable QoS = ON
QoS Type = Adaptive QoS
Bandwidth Setting = Automatic Setting
Queue Discipline = fq_codel
WAN packet overhead = Cable (DOCSIS) 18 ATM (not checked)
(but after I click apply this still shows select preset)

Mode= Customize

Are these the correct settings?
 

dave14305

Part of the Furniture
With FlexQoS, what settings do you have the Merlin QoS settings at?
I have:

Enable QoS = ON
QoS Type = Adaptive QoS
Bandwidth Setting = Automatic Setting
Queue Discipline = fq_codel
WAN packet overhead = Cable (DOCSIS) 18 ATM (not checked)
(but after I click apply this still shows select preset)

Mode= Customize

Are these the correct settings?
In general, Bandwidth Setting should be manual with the Download and Upload set to 85-95% of your lowest observed speeds without QoS (my own personal belief). This ensures that the router QoS controls the bottlenecking of traffic instead of some external force out in your ISP network or the interwebs.

In Customize, just make sure Learn-From-Home is at the bottom of the list, since it's very useless as currently defined.
 

raion969

Regular Contributor
do you think device priority still dont work correct ?
 

cristake

Regular Contributor
Hi to community !

I'm for the first time in the SNB community and I'm glad to be here.
I'm looking for solutions and ideas to solve my network traffic / latency / priority problems.
Thank you in advance for your contribution.

The facts are:

1. I have ISP provider CABLE DOCSIS with 500/25 on paper but in the real life is 400/30 ??? (sometimes).
This speed is metropolitan ( 470 - 420 /30 ) but outside severs is 300/ 25 max ( Ookla )
2. Main router is provided by ISP and is COMPAL CH7465LG bridged with ASUS RT-86U. Why bridged ? Because we are 4 people who need max bandwith ALL and main router Compal can't manage different IP with priority.
3. The main consumers are 4 PC WIN 10 PRO ( wired ) + 1 sony PS4 ( wired ) and also wifi phones / ipad's ( over 6 ) + 1 wifi printer + 1 wifi vacuum cleaner on duty every day
4. Consuming bandwith are on those areas ( this is also the order ):
  • Gaming ( only Fortnite all the time ) :mad:
  • Streaming ( 4k movies over locat network )
  • File transfer ( bittorent )
  • Web surfing
  • VOIP
  • others ....
The problem is obvious ... WHEN almost all devices are online on the same time with all activities ( gaming / streaming / file transfer / VOIP ) , problems starts ...:eek:

When I have only one router COMPAL , the first person and the second who ENTER can manage the internet speed and traffic but when the others came with youtube / netflix and something the web surfing and other activities suffer / lag for gaming / scramble streaming and so on ... that's why I introduce ASUS RT-86U to manage the situation, but with the last Merlin firmware 384.18 and QOS active I can't solve the whole problem ....

I don't have IT knowledge in this area and also in scripts and stuff to make "magic" from "run CMD " to make things.
I try to install FlexQos and after a lot of surfing and websites I manage to activate SSH and install FlexQos ... but when I restart the router the FlexQos tab vanished from QOS tab ...I uninstall Flex AND and I try to install again ... installation complete and also after 2-3 hours and one router reboot >> NO FLEX !!!!

Now I'm in the situation with NO FlexQos installed and I try to manage which QOS should try to install ( Cake or Fresh or maybe Flex again with some guidance ) to mange my network traffic and latency for my son gaming sessions !!!

I read about cake but I'm worried about decrease my speed but I don't know I can manage the flow easily ... Flex ... is an enigma for me and Fresh ... I don't know what to do as next steps. Also I don't understood very well how to tweak CAKE or Flex to optimize my traffic. I'm on the area of GUI interface to activate or deactivate things, rather to use scripts with unknown parameters and stuff I can't understood at all, but I'm ready to hear and learn... because in the next weeks school will begin and all PC's and Phones and also PS4 and stuff will be on full throttle o_O

Thank you in advance for patience and sorry for bad English ...
Best
Cristake
 
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dave14305

Part of the Furniture
I try to install FlexQos and after a lot of surfing and websites I manage to activate SSH and install FlexQos ... but when I restart the router the FlexQos tab vanished from QOS tab ...I uninstall Flex AND and I try to install again ... installation complete and also after 2-3 hours and one router reboot >> NO FLEX !!!!
My only idea about this is that you have not enabled JFFS custom scripts. Can you check it?

1597319002567.png
 

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