Ground floor Actiontec MoCA 2.0 ECB6200K02 problem

[RogerSC]

First off, my problem is that my cable modem will not connect with my ISP with both Actiontec
ECB6200K02 adapters connected in.

Here's what I did:

1. On modem/router end, connected Actiontec adapter...ISP cable into adapter, adapter into modem cable input. Powered it up without connecting to my router, and all was good so far. Modem connects with ISP fine.

2. On TV end, put in adapter. Connected cable from wall into adapter input, and adapter output to the TV amplifier power supply that then goes to TV.

3. Powered up the TV end adapter, and the "cable" light is on for both adapters, indicating that they are connected via the cable TV coax in the walls.

4. Came back to my modem/router end and saw that the cable modem was no longer connected to my ISP, so no internet of course.

5. Pulled power connection on the TV end, and still cable modem would not connect again. Took the adapter at the TV end out entirely, and cable modem will connect. Note that the adapter at the modem/router end is still connected and powered up.

Any ideas of what might be blocking my cable modem from connecting to my ISP when the adapter on the TV end of the line is connected? That adapter, the TV end one, doesn't even have to be powered up (apparently) to prevent my cable modem from connecting to my ISP, which is pretty mysterious to me.

I did reset both adapters, before removing the one on the TV end, to see if that would have any effect, and nothing changed. I also tried connecting the adapter at the modem/router end to a LAN port on my router, no change in behavior there, either (wasn't expecting it *smile*).

I should add that I have used MoCA 1.1 here very successfully, but that was before the cable amplifier for the TV was installed, as I recall...the TV amplifier is outside, and the power supply for it along with the connection for the TV (on the power supply brick) is inside. Don't know if the amplifier could be affecting things. I need to find out the mfr. and model of the amplifier and look it up and see if it passes MoCA frequencies. Seems to be the most likely suspect, I guess.

Thanks!

 

[degrub]

First off, my problem is that my cable modem will not connect with my ISP with both Actiontec
ECB6200K02 adapters connected in.

Here's what I did:

1. On modem/router end, connected Actiontec adapter...ISP cable into adapter, adapter into modem cable input. Powered it up without connecting to my router, and all was good so far. Modem connects with ISP fine.

2. On TV end, put in adapter. Connected cable from wall into adapter input, and adapter output to the TV amplifier power supply that then goes to TV.

3. Powered up the TV end adapter, and the "cable" light is on for both adapters, indicating that they are connected via the cable TV coax in the walls.

4. Came back to my modem/router end and saw that the cable modem was no longer connected to my ISP, so no internet of course.

5. Pulled power connection on the TV end, and still cable modem would not connect again. Took the adapter at the TV end out entirely, and cable modem will connect. Note that the adapter at the modem/router end is still connected and powered up.

Any ideas of what might be blocking my cable modem from connecting to my ISP when the adapter on the TV end of the line is connected? That adapter, the TV end one, doesn't even have to be powered up (apparently) to prevent my cable modem from connecting to my ISP, which is pretty mysterious to me.

I did reset both adapters, before removing the one on the TV end, to see if that would have any effect, and nothing changed. I also tried connecting the adapter at the modem/router end to a LAN port on my router, no change in behavior there, either (wasn't expecting it *smile*).

I should add that I have used MoCA 1.1 here very successfully, but that was before the cable amplifier for the TV was installed, as I recall...the TV amplifier is outside, and the power supply for it along with the connection for the TV (on the power supply brick) is inside. Don't know if the amplifier could be affecting things. I need to find out the mfr. and model of the amplifier and look it up and see if it passes MoCA frequencies. Seems to be the most likely suspect, I guess.

Thanks!

a sketch of the working and not working layout would help.

 

[RogerSC]

Found that the cable amplified splitter that Comcast uses is this one:

PPC EVO1-5-u/u Active Return

Says that the forward gain is 0 dB, and reverse gain is 0 dB. I assume that means that the amplifier is making up for the usual signal loss of a 3-way splitter, resulting in no loss. And it shows MoCA being used in the accompanying video, so I'm not seeing what the problem here could be. Not allowing my modem to connect with Comcast seems like an odd problem, given that the amplified splitter is supposed to work with MoCA.

Guess I need to call Comcast about this one. Seems like I need to have them visit me and figure out what's going on with this configuration. I'm not seeing it.

 

[degrub]

Found that the cable amplified splitter that Comcast uses is this one:

PPC EVO1-5-u/u Active Return

Says that the forward gain is 0 dB, and reverse gain is 0 dB. I assume that means that the amplifier is making up for the usual signal loss of a 3-way splitter, resulting in no loss. And it shows MoCA being used in the accompanying video, so I'm not seeing what the problem here could be. Not allowing my modem to connect with Comcast seems like an odd problem, given that the amplified splitter is supposed to work with MoCA.

Guess I need to call Comcast about this one. Seems like I need to have them visit me and figure out what's going on with this configuration. I'm not seeing it.

That splitter doesn't pass anything over 1 Ghz, so maybe the MOCA2 is dropping into the range that interferes with the ISP cable frequencies.

 

[RogerSC]

Well, it is interesting that Comcast uses MoCA as part of their x1 product, and I've read that this amplified splitter is part of that product. Don't know how accurate that is, but people seemed pretty definite about it. Not sure if they're using MoCA 1.1 or 2.0, though. It may be referring to MoCA 1.1 in the information on the amplified splitter as well, all they mention is MoCA, not the version number that they're supporting.

These are the basic specs:

Model Number ECB6200

IP
LAN MoCA (v. 2.0; up to 1.4 Gbps throughput)
LAN Ethernet Port 10/100/1000 (1)

LAN Connections
Coax In Frequency Range - Extended D-band: 1125MHz ~ 1675MHz;
Full Port Range: 5MHz ~ 2150MHz
TV/STB Out Frequency Range - 5MHz ~ 1002MHz

I looked at the specs for the Actiontec ECB2500 also, and the frequency range is similar (Extended D-band), just 1125-1525MHz. instead of 1675MHz.

Interesting.

 

[degrub]

Search this forum for comcast. You may find some guidance.

 

[RogerSC]

I've looked around and haven't found anyone with the problem that I'm seeing with the cable modem not connecting to my ISP. I did just try using a POE filter connected to the cable input to my modem backwards (connections reversed from normal) to see if the MoCA frequency stuff was preventing the cable modem from connecting...read about that somewhere or other on the internet and thought it was worth a try before going the chicken/pentagram/incense route. That didn't help, so I've put in a support request with Actiontec in hopes that they've heard about this problem before. I'll see what they say, but my installation is so simple, I'm really stumped at what the problem might be.

 

[RogerSC]

Okay, re-wired the MoCA adapter at the modem end to use the splitter included in the ECB6200K02 kit: wall coax to splitter input. Splitter output #1 to modem, splitter output #2 to "Coax In" of ECB6200. This is supposed to be correct wiring, but same symptom...modem will not connect with my ISP. Still get the "Coax" lights and power lights all lit up, but no modem connection to my ISP. Again, I need to remove the MoCA adapter on the TV end to get the modem to connect.

I also did a couple of diagnostic tests involving wiring the units together to test if they work. According to the test results, the adapters are working just fine, both coax and ethernet ports are doing fine.

This just isn't working for me, not sure where to go from here. The only thing that I can think of offhand is trying a POE filter on the cable input to the amplified splitter outside. I just don't see how not having that would cause my modem to not connect to my ISP...

 

[sfx2000]

That splitter doesn't pass anything over 1 Ghz, so maybe the MOCA2 is dropping into the range that interferes with the ISP cable frequencies.

This is a very valid point - MOCA2 has two channel ranges - one for CATV/DOCSIS based systems, and another for DBS (DishTV/DirecTV) type of systems - it should auto-sense, but maybe not...

@RogerSC - have you checked with ActionTec directly? I've heard there is a hidden admin interface on these adapters that expose a lot of useful info...

You didn't mention which CM is in use - is this carrier provided as a unified services gateway, or a basic CM privately owned?

 

[RogerSC]

This is a very valid point - MOCA2 has two channel ranges - one for CATV/DOCSIS based systems, and another for DBS (DishTV/DirecTV) type of systems - it should auto-sense, but maybe not...

@RogerSC - have you checked with ActionTec directly? I've heard there is a hidden admin interface on these adapters that expose a lot of useful info...

You didn't mention which CM is in use - is this carrier provided as a unified services gateway, or a basic CM privately owned?

My cable modem is an Arris tm822g that I own (and has been working well for almost 2 years), which is specified to have a "MoCA Immunity Filter", which sounds good to me. This says to me that this modem should not be adversely affected by the MoCA stuff on the cable.

Yes, I've been talking with Actiontec, they haven't mentioned any admin interface. That's something to look into. The amplified splitter is a:

PPC EVO1-5-U/U

which, according to the installation video on their web site, is MoCA compatible. Doesn't say MoCA 1.1 or MoCA 2 that I've seen, but the upper "extended band D" frequency is only about 100MHz. wider for MoCA 2 versus MoCA 1.1. At least, that's what I got out of the MoCA specs. So an amplifier that's MoCA 1.1 compatible is very likely to be MoCA 2 compatible as well.

And there are no splitters other than the main amplified splitter between the ISP cable that goes to my modem and the ISP cable that goes to my TV. Both of those are straight shots from the main amplified splitter. Oh wait, I just remembered *smile*, I am now using the splitter that came with the Actiontec ECB6200K02 kit at the modem end, but that one's definitely made to pass the MoCA frequencies (of course).

This really has me puzzled...I've had MoCA 1.1 working well here in the past...I think that was before the amplified splitter, though.

 

[degrub]

it would really help if you drew a map showing all the connections between each device. What was working before and what is not working now.

Here is a document from MOCA Alliance about coexistence between DOCSIS 3.1 and MOCA 2
http://www.mocalliance.org/access/SCTE-235-2017.pdf

Also, you do have 75 ohm terminator caps on any unused ports on splitters, yes ?

 

[RogerSC]

Okay, I did find the web admin GUI, it is real well hidden *smile*. The adapter that I looked at has the current latest version of the Actiontec firmware: 2.11.1.50.6200.7. The rest of the information there isn't very interesting, don't see any errors or information that I would find useful at this point.

 

[RogerSC]

it would really help if you drew a map showing all the connections between each device. What was working before and what is not working now.

Here is a document from MOCA Alliance about coexistence between DOCSIS 3.1 and MOCA 2
http://www.mocalliance.org/access/SCTE-235-2017.pdf

I don't know of any decent drawing tools for this...I could try Paint and freehand it *smile*. But it is really about as simple as it gets...

 

[degrub]

I don't know of any decent drawing tools for this...I could try Paint and freehand it *smile*. But it is really about as simple as it gets...

pen paper and an iphone works

in the doc i referenced above, there are specific configuration drawings to compare your installation to.

 

[sfx2000]

I don't know of any decent drawing tools for this...I could try Paint and freehand it *smile*. But it is really about as simple as it gets...

try this...

https://www.draw.io

 

[RogerSC]

Okay, drew it freehand and scanned it into an image. With any luck, image should be attached. Told you it was as simple as it gets *smile*.

 

[RogerSC]

try this...

https://www.draw.io

Hey, thanks, good to see that there's something out there for us artistically challenged folks *smile*.

 

[sfx2000]

Go from the demarc into the MOCA, from MOCA to the CM on the first leg...

Ethernet from LAN port on the GM/GW/Router to the Ethernet port in the MOCA adapter, BTW..

It's non-obvious, but it work - there's a filter on the MOCA to keep things from going upstream back to the demarc - so look at the RG connectors carefully to ensure it's oriented correctly if I recall...

Give that a try...

 

[degrub]

Okay, drew it freehand and scanned it into an image. With any luck, image should be attached. Told you it was as simple as it gets *smile*.

What does the upstream (above the "In"s look like ? all the way to the drop to the demarc.

 

[RogerSC]

Go from the demarc into the MOCA, from MOCA to the CM on the first leg...

Give that a try...

That was the first way that I hooked it up, if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly. The "cable output" port of the ECB6200 is marked "STB/TV out", and Actiontec told me not to connect that to the modem, to use their splitter in the way that I currently have it hooked up. Anyways, connecting it that way, with "STB/TV out" connected to the modem did the same thing that I'm seeing now...then Actiontec convinced me to use the splitter, and I also verified that on the internet with another couple of postings.