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HDTV Antenna and Moca network?

Discussion in 'MoCA, HomePlug, HPNA' started by snbdora, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. snbdora

    snbdora Regular Contributor

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    Hi,

    I've one HDTV Antenna hooked up to a TV directly. I would like to route the antenna signal across the coax and I've Moca adapters installed. Is it possible to distributes the signal using Moca network or is there any other option available?

    Thanks
     
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman Regular Contributor

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    Can you be more specific as to the brand/model of your MoCA adapters (to determine the MoCA spec in-use)? Is MoCA the only signal present on the coax (i.e. no cable signal)?

    The raw OTA antenna signal wouldn't be transmitted via MoCA, but MoCA was designed to share coax with OTA or cable signals (one or the other, of course, since OTA and cable use overlapping frequencies and so cannot coexist on a coax segment).

    Consider the frequencies used:

    OTA: 54-806 MHz (lower top-end, actually, nowadays)
    Cable: 5-1002 MHz
    MoCA (Band D)*: 1125-1675 MHz

    So OTA signals could share a coax segment with MoCA (Band D) gear ... assuming no cable signals are present on the coax.


    * Most retail MoCA gear operates in MoCA band D, designed for use with cable or OTA setups. DirecTV markets their own MoCA gear, using MoCA band E frequencies -- which overlap OTA and cable TV frequencies and so prevent use of this gear on coax carrying either OTA or cable signals.
     
    Dave Parker likes this.
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman Regular Contributor

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    p.s. As an aside, whole home DVR setups such as TiVo transmit tuned video content between a host DVR and client boxes over the home network via MoCA, but these setups are simply streaming video over the home network, not sending the raw OTA/cable signal to each separate box.
     
    Dave Parker likes this.
  4. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

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    you may have to amplify your HDTV antenna signal before the first MOCA adapter depending on the number of cable connections. If it works today, you will loose 3dB typically at the connection into the MOCA adapter.
     
  5. krkaufman

    krkaufman Regular Contributor

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    ... plus all the additional losses for any splitters and the coax through which the signal will pass enroute to whatever destination(s) you have in mind.
     
  6. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

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    do you remember if the moca modem amplifies all of the bands or just the moca bands ?
     
  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman Regular Contributor

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    MoCA adapters only amplify the MoCA signals transmitted, and only if their algorithms identify the need. Sub-MoCA signals pass-through via a built-in diplexer ... assuming a pass-through port is present. (So the actual OTA signal loss is likely closer to 1dB than 3+dB.)
     
  8. snbdora

    snbdora Regular Contributor

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    I've 2x Actiontec ECB6200 adapters in the house. I don't have a cable signal but only internet. The HDTV antenna is upstairs with an amplifier ( came with it ) and is directly hooked to the TV tuner.
     
  9. krkaufman

    krkaufman Regular Contributor

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    ECB6200 == MoCA band D, and so compatible with either OTA or cable signals.

    What type of Internet service? DSL? Fiber? Cable? If cable, is the coax to the modem linked to the coax plant connecting your MoCA adapters?
     
  10. snbdora

    snbdora Regular Contributor

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    No. I've connected the MoCA adapters on a separate coax wall point which I guess is isolated from the coax cable network I've for the internet service.

    So I guess I can use MoCA splitters at both end to route the OTA signal on this isolated coax?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  11. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

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    Unless you know what each coax run is connected to, i would not assume. Typical is for runs put in at one time to terminate at an amplified splitter near the cable isp entry to the house either for combined cable tv plus internet or one of the two. If it is an older installation, it may be rg59, which can causes issues with moca2. There are cable testing devices available that can used to figure out which cable is run where.
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman Regular Contributor

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    ^^^ what degrub said! ^^^​

    For example:

    IF the shared coax is entirely isolated from the cable provider, then you should be OK to merge OTA and MoCA ... and you could use splitters, antenna/satellite diplexers, or the ECB6200 pass-through port, depending on what's needed.

    You'd also want to make sure to keep the MoCA signals from reaching and emanating from the antenna ... typically accomplished using a "PoE" MoCA filter.
     
  13. snbdora

    snbdora Regular Contributor

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    Thank you guys! I appreciate your help and the guidance. My knowledge is pretty limited when it comes to the MoCa technology which I recently came across. I wish I knew about MoCA technology before. I'd been using Router/Repeater combo with all sort of troubles all the time. I'll get a cable tester just to be sure about the connectivity. I did buy a MoCA PoE filter and a 2 way splitter ( Holland make ) along with the ActionTech Adapaters. See the attached schematic that I thought would be the layout assuming the coax is isolated.
    [​IMG]

    This is the Antenna I've upstairs
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07K9SGXFL/?tag=snbforums-20
     
    krkaufman likes this.
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman Regular Contributor

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    Diagrammed setup should work, assuming sufficient OTA signal strength and that the cable modem's "Wall Coax" is isolated from the ECB6200s' "Wall Coax."

    NOTES:

    . The "PoE" MoCA filter should be installed on the input of the 2-way splitter, and you've properly located the splitter downstream of the amp.

    . ECB6200 "Coax In" ports should connect to wall outlets.

    02E_ECB6200.jpg
     
    snbdora and L&LD like this.
  15. snbdora

    snbdora Regular Contributor

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    Ok the coax is indeed an isolated one. I can get OTA channels on the TV downstairs. I did at least one 720p HD channel after scanning channels twice. Maybe I have to do the scanning a few times to see if I can see more HD channels down there. ( I get the HD channels upstairs perfectly ) Do I 've look into a better amplifier to help with that? Is there any way to check signal strength at the 6200 ends?

    Any suggestions on this would be great!

    Thanks
     
  16. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

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    If you are having to scan multiple times, that means the signal level is marginal.

    I would start by looking at the coax terminations to the wall plates on each end. Make sure there are no shield braid wires contacting the central conductor, the central conductor is proper length from inside the connector with a little bit of the core insulator extending inside. No hard kinks in the cable. Don’t use push on connectors, use screw on type and make sure they are tight.

    If you have to replace the amp, you will need a low noise version otherwise the noise floor goes up as well. You can help the losses by replacing any splitters with lower loss versions and minimizing the number. Any unused ports should capped if you cannot replace the splitter with one with the exact number of ports needed.

    Is the antenna outside with at least 1.5 meters of air around it or is this an indoor antenna ? You may need to correct the aim of the antenna by a few degrees to improve the signal level, tilt it slightly up, or relocate it to a higher spot with a clear line of sight to the transmission tower. You might need a higher gain, directional, not omnidirectional, antenna . If this is an indoor antenna, the best spot may be elsewhere in the room.

    Or you could use something like a HD Homerun box and connect to your TVs across ethernet. I do both as i had too much loss on one run. It uses DLNA to talk with the tv, so any recent tv should work.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  17. snbdora

    snbdora Regular Contributor

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  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman Regular Contributor

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    Ok, but now that you have signal strength issues at the downstairs location, it’s more important to understand exactly how these two rooms are connected via coax. What are the specific connections behind the “Wall Coax” block for the OTA/MoCA portion of your diagram? e.g. Are you using a barrel connector to direct-connect the two rooms? Are the rooms just end-points off a central splitter? My typical recommendation is that a diagram be generated, however rough, illustrating the coax runs and connections available and in-use.


    Separately, have you reviewed your antenna requirements at TVFool.com or antennaweb.org?
     
  19. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

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    You may be better off with a second antenna downstairs. Try the one you have downstairs if you haven't already.
    Otherwise, look into a HD Homerun box to supply streamed OTA TV to both TVs.
    https://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/
     
  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman Regular Contributor

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    #Buehler...