Help deciding on which node/satellite should i buy for wireless backhaul

random_acc

New Around Here
Hello,

A couple of months ago I bought the RT-AX86U when I got the option to get fiber optics in my area.
I was hoping the 86u will have enough power to reach across all my 2 floor house, sadly this didn't happen.

Now I need a second node for the first floor in the house as the upper floor is where the 86u sits.
One important note is that it has to be wireless backhaul simply because our walls are full concrete and metal and all the wire tunnels are full.

The current options I have in my local store are the:
Asus RT-AX56U
Asus RT-AX58U
Asus RT-AX92U
Asus RT-AX86U
Asus RT-AX88U

Some more information:
1Gig ethernet
10 ~ wireless clients
3 ~ WIFI 6 clients right now and more in the future
Need to be able to stream 4K content on the first floor wirelessly on multiple devices
The distance between the router and the node should be around 10-15 meters and 1 concrete wall and 1 concrete floor
I get 80%-95% connection quality with my wireless phone where the node should be placed

Some questions I have..
Wireless backhaul means that the band used for (example 5gz) can't be accessed by devices on the network?
if it's blocked, is it on both the router and the node?
Can we somehow calculate the performance hit?
How should I point the router antennas to get the best signal to a specific point and not spread it?

Thank you in advance!
 
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slrt

Occasional Visitor
For proper wireless backhaul you should get tri-band routers, like ZenWifi XT8/ET8 or RT-AX11000/RT-AXE11000 - and return the RT-AX86U if you're still in the return window.
With these routers the fastest band is used for dedicated backhaul, and that leaves the 5GHz band available for wireless clients. Note that there is no magic here - the routers need to be close enough to one another to have strong backhaul signal.
A better alternative is to insist on wired. If you have a Coax cable running in the walls you can get a couple of MoCA 2.5 adapters, like this one, and use that to connect your node to the router.
 

random_acc

New Around Here
For proper wireless backhaul you should get tri-band routers, like ZenWifi XT8/ET8 or RT-AX11000/RT-AXE11000 - and return the RT-AX86U if you're still in the return window.
With these routers the fastest band is used for dedicated backhaul, and that leaves the 5GHz band available for wireless clients. Note that there is no magic here - the routers need to be close enough to one another to have strong backhaul signal.
A better alternative is to insist on wired. If you have a Coax cable running in the walls you can get a couple of MoCA 2.5 adapters, like this one, and use that to connect your node to the router.
Thank you for your replay.
The return window passed a long time ago...
As for the Coax cable, I have them inside the walls except for where the 86u sitting and where the node should be.
 

slrt

Occasional Visitor
Are the coax cable locations that bad? If you used a dual band router like the AX86U with wireless backhaul, at least half of the 5GHz channel bandwidth would be wasted on the backhaul. With concrete walls and floors the hit may be greater, as poor reception results in retransmits and high latency.
 

leerees

Senior Member
A few people here have AX92u's connected to AX86u's. As it will be running in dual band mode, remember to setup the AX92u to share the backhaul so you can get the full 1gbps for your clients.
 

random_acc

New Around Here
A few people here have AX92u's connected to AX86u's. As it will be running in dual band mode, remember to setup the AX92u to share the backhaul so you can get the full 1gbps for your clients.
The problem with the AX92u is that it has: 5 GHz 4 x 4 WIFI 6 | 5 GHz 2 x 2 WIFI 5 | 2.4 GHz 2 x 2 WIFI 4.
From my understanding this means that the 5 GHz 4 x 4 will be used as the wireless backhaul. I don't know yet if the clients will be able to use this band or not.
 

slrt

Occasional Visitor
The same band can be used by both backhaul and clients. With essentially all traffic propagating to the main router, the bandwidth available to wireless clients will be halved at best.
 

leerees

Senior Member
The same band can be used by both backhaul and clients. With essentially all traffic propagating to the main router, the bandwidth available to wireless clients will be halved at best.

It actually works really well. Then max speed from the router will be around 950mbs, you will still see speeds around 700mb/s on the satellite node.
 
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random_acc

New Around Here
The same band can be used by both backhaul and clients. With essentially all traffic propagating to the main router, the bandwidth available to wireless clients will be halved at best.
It actually works really well. Then max speed from the router will be around 950mbs, you will still see speeds around 700mb/s on the satellite node.
The max theoretical speed of 5GHz 4 x 4 (4804Mbps) will be halved or the max available in my home (1 Gbps)?
I read on dongknows guides and reviews that it's not wise to combine dual-band and tri-band routers in a mesh system, can you explain more on that please?
 

slrt

Occasional Visitor
You can get 4804Mbps in 5GHz only if you use the 160MHz DFS. I don't know if that's available in your area. If it isn't, you will get at most 2402MHz, used for both clients and backhaul.
The issue Dong pointed out with dual-band/tri-band wired-backhaul mix with AiMesh is that the system essentially disables the 3rd band - which is the fastest one. In the XT8 for example the 3rd band can pass 4804Mbps (at 160MHz), while the 2nd band can do only 1201Mbps. Until this is fixed by Asus, this can be circumvented by using an AP setup rather than the fancy AiMesh. Note this is relevant only for wired backhaul. For wireless there is actually a benefit for the mix, see here. Of course, a fully tri-band setup will always work better in a wireless setup than a mix.
 

random_acc

New Around Here
You can get 4804Mbps in 5GHz only if you use the 160MHz DFS. I don't know if that's available in your area. If it isn't, you will get at most 2402MHz, used for both clients and backhaul.
The issue Dong pointed out with dual-band/tri-band wired-backhaul mix with AiMesh is that the system essentially disables the 3rd band - which is the fastest one. In the XT8 for example the 3rd band can pass 4804Mbps (at 160MHz), while the 2nd band can do only 1201Mbps. Until this is fixed by Asus, this can be circumvented by using an AP setup rather than the fancy AiMesh. Note this is relevant only for wired backhaul. For wireless there is actually a benefit for the mix, see here. Of course, a fully tri-band setup will always work better in a wireless setup than a mix.
I understand.
Thank you very much for all your help.
I'm going to try to get the 92U and hope for the best.
 

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