Help me optimize my home WiFi: APs, Bridge, Repeater, Booster, Extender...

[ascanio1]

Please help me optimize my home network! I need to extend my 802.11ac range to another room. I already tried to move my WiFi routers to different locations but there are always a couple of rooms left out.

I can lay Ethernet cables but not use power line adapters.

I cannot "steal" control channels from my neighbors if I want to keep peace in the building. My WiFi neighborhood is super congested (on 2.4GHz there are up to 4 radios on each one of the 4 main channel: 1, 5, 11 and 14) and the 5GHz too, is very busy. There are very few control channels available in Japan which are also compatible to both our European PCs/phones and Japanese Mac/phones. Basically 36, 40, 44 and 48 only.

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> I have 3 WLANs:
TLS-1 802.11ac on 5GHz (channel 44)
TLS-2 802.11n on 2.4GHz (channel 1)
TLS-3 802.11g on 2.4GHz (channel 11)
> I use 2 routers:
ASUS RT-AC66U and an old
Buffalo Airstation Nfinity Giga (only 802.11g).
> I have 13 clients of which 2 stream media and or talk on Skype continuously:
3 iPhones
3 Androids (some 802.11ac)
2 PC laptops (w/ 802.11ac adapter)
1 Mac Book Pro (802.11ac)
a number of internet radios, Media Players, Wii consoles, PS3 etc etc
----------------------------------------------

Given this situation I don't know how to setup the new 802.11ac AP. I was reading on internet that bridges are good and extenders and repeaters are bad because they cut in half the throughput and I should add a new WLAN for 802.11g instead of using the same router.

1:
APs, Bridge, Repeater, Booster, Extender...?
What does each one of these do?
Which is better?

2:
Should the new 802.11ac AP use the same control channel or a different one (if I can convince my neighbors to let me use another one)?

3:
Should I use 1 or 2 SSIDs? Please consider that seamless roaming is top priority.

4:
Won't the 2 radios create conflict and reduce throughput if they are on the same channel?

Did I leave anything out? Any other consideration advice?

Thanks in advance for your advice and help!

 

[thiggins]

802.11ac is not good for your situation because it eats up all your four available 5 GHz channels. You would be better off using N, which uses 2 or 4 channels.

If you feel you must use AC, reduce the power of both APs to minimize co-channel interference.

Best way is to connect an Access point via Ethernet.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...best-way-to-get-whole-house-wireless-coverage

 

[ascanio1]

Even if I switch my router's 5GHz band from 802.11ac to n only, this still will not make the 5GHz band available in that specific location where I don't get the 5GHz signal. That's why I was considering an AP.

And I do remember that article, that's exactly the one which I was mentioning, it's very good, but it does not address my problem by explaining if I should use the same channel or a different channel (assuming that I convince my neighbor to use a lower channel). Same SSID, different SSID?

And how should I setup the AP? Since it would be connected to the router via Ethernet, would it be called bridge? Right? What about the DHCP settings... any other setting I should be aware of to ensure seamless roaming from one area of the house to the other?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[thiggins]

The article links to this article, that explains how to add an access point (AP) to an existing router. It also addresses your other questions.

Of course changing from AC to N doesn't extend your existing router's signal. It will keep a router and additional AP from having to share channels.

"Seamless" roaming is hit or miss with consumer routers and access points. It depends a lot on the wireless drivers in your client devices. This topic has been discussed many times in many threads. There is no one answer. You basically have to try single SSID vs. multiple SSID and see what works for you.

 

[azazel1024]

802.11ac is not good for your situation because it eats up all your four available 5 GHz channels. You would be better off using N, which uses 2 or 4 channels.

If you feel you must use AC, reduce the power of both APs to minimize co-channel interference.

Best way is to connect an Access point via Ethernet.
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...best-way-to-get-whole-house-wireless-coverage

You can still use 11ac, but you could back it off to 40MHz channel widths, instead of using the full 80MHz. In theory you'd still get higher through put with 40MHz 11ac than with 40MHz 11n, plus you have other required supported features in 11ac that can be of benefit potentially (explicit beamforming if supported on the AP/router). Certainly the likely increase in range and throughput of using 40MHz 11ac over 40MHz 11n is likely to be relatively small, but it would still be better.

The whole "limited channel thing" is something various regulatory bodies really need to work on. Even though the US FCC just upped the power restrictions on the UNI-I band in the US (36-48), which is nice, and is know effectively allowing a couple more UNI-II DFS channels to be used, almost no one implements DFS and the UNI-II channels.

With 160MHz gear coming soon, the situation is going to get worse. As it stands, in the US anyway, there is effectively 160, occasionally 180MHz of available spectrum in 5GHz (channel 161 seems to be hit or miss in terms of support). That means a SINGLE AP will eat up the entire 5GHz band if DFS support is not mandatory.

If it was mandatory, depending on the spetrum usage in your area, you do potentially open things up to a pair of 160MHz APs without overlapping IIRC (I THINK there is now something like 180-200MHz of 5GHz DFS spectrum in the US).

Granted, the situation in Japan is much more complicated.

If you are simply looking at coverage and not necessarily maximum bandwidth, you are probably best off setting both access points to 80MHz and overlap each other, as you are unlikely to have hidden node issues (which can REALLY thrash performance). Alternately, set each to 40MHz and keep them non-overlapping. It'll reduce potential "light use" maximum bandwidth, but it is going to be the best option to preserve maximim bandwidth for all devices if there is more than one device on each access point that is in heavy use (as contention, even with no hidden node issues, will drop total bandwidth below what is likely to be available having seperate and non-overlapping 40MHz chunks/APs).

 

[azazel1024]

The article links to this article, that explains how to add an access point (AP) to an existing router. It also addresses your other questions.

Of course changing from AC to N doesn't extend your existing router's signal. It will keep a router and additional AP from having to share channels.

"Seamless" roaming is hit or miss with consumer routers and access points. It depends a lot on the wireless drivers in your client devices. This topic has been discussed many times in many threads. There is no one answer. You basically have to try single SSID vs. multiple SSID and see what works for you.

Very much true. I will note again though, you can use 11ac and 40MHz channel width (unless of course the router doesn't support that). You do not have to set 11n to get 40MHz channel widths in 5GHz.

 

[bobsilver]

You guys are a wealth of knowledge. I always learn something when monitoring this forum. My compliments this was great info.

Bob Silver
NETGEAR Networking Assistant

 

[ChristineBCW]

(Bob, same here. THanks, all.)

If I had the chance to use Ethernet - superior speeds - even to free up 3 devices from WiFi, I'd think this would be helpful.

 

[ascanio1]

(Bob, same here. Thanks, all.) If I had the chance to use Ethernet - superior speeds - even to free up 3 devices from WiFi, I'd think this would be helpful.

Thanks for the advice and funny coincidence because that's exactly what I did this morning after reading another thread here on SNB: I connected via Ethernet:
- Oppo BR+media player;
- Nintendo Wii;
- Internet Radio streamer

That reduces the clients to 10. It will be difficult to reduce further as we talk about laptops and mobile phones.

 

[ascanio1]

@ Azazel 1024 and Thiggins,

Thanks for all the help so far.

... this morning I crossed my neighbor downstairs who agreed to switch his 5GHz control channels to much lower ranges. I must add that Inssider showed his network very weak in the first place. Bottom line now I have all the following channels to play with: from 36 to 48 on 5GHz.
2.4GHz remains as packed as an egg!

With this new info, is there any different advice on how to setup my AP?
- bandwidth (20/40/80),
- protocol (n/ac),
- SSID (same/different),
- channel use (same/different)?

I have an ASUS RT-AC66U. Should my AP be ASUS too or it doesn't matter since I use Ethernet?

When I connect an AP to a router via Ethernet is it called Bridge or...?

 

[azazel1024]

Doesn't matter on the brand of the other router/AP.

No, an access point is called an access point, no matter how you are connecting it. A wifi router is just a router with an access point built in. The only time the access point would be a bridge is if you are connecting the access point to another access point wirelessly, to connect to physically seperate ethernet networks in to one network. Then it would be an access point in bridge mode (there are also dedicated wireless bridges that do the above).

What is your wireless throughput requirements? Are they going to exceed, say, 100Mbps? If not, then I'd setup the router and an access point, use 40Mhz channels on 5GHz (and 20MHz on 2.4GHz). I'd still use 11ac and not 11n. If you do want/need more than 100Mbps of wireles throughput, then I'd set each one up in 80MHz even though they'll overlap. If you have a bunch of devices at once going, you'll likely have lower maximum wireless bandwidth than two 40MHz, but when you are only using a device or two and have high bandwidth requirements, you can get it.

Also if frequently most of your use is when by one of the APs, this also makes sense to have the widest channels possible on each one.

I'd use the same SSID for roaming purposes.

 

[ascanio1]

Thanks Azazel,

I'd still use 11ac and not 11n.

I just upgraded the firmware of my WiFi router (ASUS RT-AC66U) and now I only have 3 options on 5GHz:
- n+ac
- auto
- legacy

If you do want/need more than 100Mbps of wireles throughput, ... cut ... What is your wireless throughput requirements? Are they going to exceed, say, 100Mbps?

I don't think it will exceed 100Mbps @ the AP: only 1 Mac Laptop "incessantly" running either Skype or streaming 1080p Vudu films but not both together. Often the WiFi router (not the AP) may be simultaneously streaming 1080p Vudu films to a second client and, less frequently (maybe 3/4 times a week) the same WiFi router may simultaneously have to connect to a 3rd client on Skype. And, constantly, 3 or 4 smartphones will be connected too, but these only for simple social media connections.

If not, then I'd setup the router and an access point, use 40Mhz channels on 5GHz (and 20MHz on 2.4GHz).

Thanks. So... 5GHz AP and router on 40MHz, right?

-----------------
2 last questions:
- AP and WiFi router on different channels, but same SSID, right?
- If I wanted to use 80MHz on both the WiFi router and the AP, how far should the 2 channels be set? 36 and 48 are not enough?

About my 5GHZ band conflict issue. From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels you can see which 5GHz channel mix are possible considering:
- I live Japan and want to abide by local laws even though my router has US frequencies access (but, unfortunately, not all the Japanese ones).
- 1 Mac laptop purchased in Japan only connects to some Japanese 5ghz bands (not sure which, though, as Apple has a weird limitation, don't ask me why...
- 2 European PCs have European 5GHz band access;
- Most phones were purchased in HK or Singapore and can connect on those 5GHz bands.
- Finally consider that we are 4, interconnecting network, neighbors. All neighbors use Japanese Wifi devices and I must keep everyone happy.

> The 1st floor guy only has 2.4GHz.
> I am on the 2nd floor, (802.11n+ac) and I can see the 3rd floor neighbor 5GHz network @60dB only.
> The 3rd floor neighbor (802.11n only) can see both my 5GHz network and the 4th floor 5GHz network.
> The 4th floor guy (802.11n+ac) can see the 3rd and 5th floor 5GHz networks.
> The 5th floor guy (802.11n+ac) can only see the 4th floor network.

Provided I grant equal 5GHZ bandwidths space to each other neighbor, then they would not mind re-arranging the control channel assignation. Please note that it took me 3 years to reach this "peace treaty"... before the treaty we had the "greater gain antennas war"!

Since I'm the one with mixed 5GHz devices problem, I'm the one who has to come up with a networks bandwidth and control channel distribution proposal. Unfortunately I:
- Don't know much about band spacing and radio interference;
- There are too many variables considering the different 5GHz radios involved in my home;
- I don't understand the compatibility and differences between Indoors, DFS, TPC, YES (I guess std) and client only meanings.

... it is all too complicated for me!
:-(
Can anyone spare the expertise (and time) to help me with the control band matrix assignation or should I not risk ruining the neighbor peace and call an IT technician (which I would have to pay by myself as the problem is mine only...)?

Again thanks for the great help which you are all offering me. It really is greatly appreciated.