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redski

Occasional Visitor
Hello, I have dsl from AT&T which is very slow by today's standards. I'm thinking about subscribing to xfinity internet from Comcast because my father refuses to let AT&T drill a hole in our wall to get fiber. For now I think I'm going to get the 400 mbps down 10 mbps upload package they offer.

There is one room in my house which is a complete wifi deadspot because it has a cinder wall dividing it from the rest of the house. Right now I use powerline adapters to get an ethernet connection to said room.

I'm thinking about upgrading to MoCA adapters once I get the new internet because I fear that powerline isn't gonna cut it.

Please look at the diagram of my house I have attached to this post. (I'm sorry if it's bad I tried my best)

My confusion is that when I see most people's coax setup it goes...
Point of entry (coax) > 2 way splitter (one end goes to modem other one goes to amplifier)

On my house currently the point of entry goes straight into the amplifier as you can see in the diagram. Would the modem still work even though it's going through the amplifier and the passthrough on the MoCA? Also generally does the diagram look like everything would work okay?

I just looked today and all the coax cables running through my house are RG6.

If I was to do this setup I would just need to buy 2 splitters, 1 amplifier, and the point of entry MoCA filter. (currently have non moca splitters/amplifiers set up)

Modem I'm looking at is Motorola MB7621.
The router I want to buy is the google wifi one that comes with 3 router puck things. I am aware that most of you on this forum are not the target audience for this router but it seems pretty neat to me. (open to other suggestions)
I am also aware that only one of the routers needs to be plugged into your modem while the other 2 pucks can be wireless. However I want the one in the deadspot room to be wired so I think I'm just gonna wire up all of them to get the most speed.

Thanks!


SNB.png
 

krkaufman

Very Senior Member
because my father refuses to let AT&T drill a hole in our wall to get fiber.
Would changing the location of said hole influence his decision? What if the hole and associated gear were at the central junction, rather than into a finished room?

As for the suggested setup for cable Internet, what is the purpose of the amplifier? Would you also have cable TV service or just Internet via the cable provider? If just Internet, you might consider moving the modem and main router to the central junction, to minimize the need for amplification and to isolate the DOCSIS signals from the MoCA-infused coax plant, future-proofing for DOCSIS 3.1 and on. (An amplifier has no value relative to MoCA signals, since MoCA offers its own automatic power adjustment.)

Re: choice of splitters... satellite service (950-2150 MHz) prefers high output port isolation, while retail MoCA adapters (Ext band D, 1125-1675 MHz) prefer lower output port isolation ... so a given splitter can’t be optimized for both satellite and retail MoCA (band D). The choice isn’t as critical in small, simple setups with a “PoE” MoCA filter properly installed, but grows in importance with coax complexity.
 

redski

Occasional Visitor
Would changing the location of said hole influence his decision? What if the hole and associated gear were at the central junction, rather than into a finished room?

As for the suggested setup for cable Internet, what is the purpose of the amplifier? Would you also have cable TV service or just Internet via the cable provider? If just Internet, you might consider moving the modem and main router to the central junction, to minimize the need for amplification and to isolate the DOCSIS signals from the MoCA-infused coax plant, future-proofing for DOCSIS 3.1 and on. (An amplifier has no value relative to MoCA signals, since MoCA offers its own automatic power adjustment.)

Re: choice of splitters... satellite service (950-2150 MHz) prefers high output port isolation, while retail MoCA adapters (Ext band D, 1125-1675 MHz) prefer lower output port isolation ... so a given splitter can’t be optimized for both satellite and retail MoCA (band D). The choice isn’t as critical in small, simple setups with a “PoE” MoCA filter properly installed, but grows in importance with coax complexity.

No my dad is pretty stubborn about stuff like this so cable internet it is.

I kind of just assumed you needed an amp because that is how my house is wired up currently, I don't have cable tv anymore the only signal that would be coming through would be xfinity internet.

I kind of like the place where the modem would be in the diagram for convenience purposes so would it still work? I understand it would be better at the central junction but everything is wired really nicely already. The current amp says "radio shack bi directional cable amplifier" so it's probably really old and I wasn't sure if it could work with MoCA.

Regarding splitters I was gonna buy these
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0113JAN8K/?tag=snbforums-20

and this filter
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KO5KHSQ/?tag=snbforums-20
 

redski

Occasional Visitor
Would changing the location of said hole influence his decision? What if the hole and associated gear were at the central junction, rather than into a finished room?

As for the suggested setup for cable Internet, what is the purpose of the amplifier? Would you also have cable TV service or just Internet via the cable provider? If just Internet, you might consider moving the modem and main router to the central junction, to minimize the need for amplification and to isolate the DOCSIS signals from the MoCA-infused coax plant, future-proofing for DOCSIS 3.1 and on. (An amplifier has no value relative to MoCA signals, since MoCA offers its own automatic power adjustment.)

Re: choice of splitters... satellite service (950-2150 MHz) prefers high output port isolation, while retail MoCA adapters (Ext band D, 1125-1675 MHz) prefer lower output port isolation ... so a given splitter can’t be optimized for both satellite and retail MoCA (band D). The choice isn’t as critical in small, simple setups with a “PoE” MoCA filter properly installed, but grows in importance with coax complexity.
if the amp isn't required should I just replace it with a 5 port MoCA splitter?
 

krkaufman

Very Senior Member
if the amp isn't required should I just replace it with a 5 port MoCA splitter?
If you’re not going to tweak the setup to get an isolated, unsplit line to the modem, the next preference is using a 2-way splitter to feed the modem location (to minimize signal loss) with all other locations hanging off the other side of the 2-way splitter — and with a “PoE” MoCA filter on the input of this top-level splitter.

As a simple alternative, Amphenol Broadband offers a 7-output hybrid MoCA splitter with a similar loss setup (and built-in “PoE” MoCA filter. (see here, here)


Addressed in prior reply. See BAMF’s product description:
VERY HIGH QUALITY, solid built 2-way coax cable splitter designed for CATV or satellite services. Used frequency spectrum 5-2300 MHz for optimal performance on all devices. Whether you are using cable (internet,TV or phone), satellite TV or antenna system we have you covered. Works great with MoCA systems. Zinc die-cast housing with nickel plating, f-type connector, low insertion loss, high isolation, ...​
Re: choice of splitters... satellite service (950-2150 MHz) prefers high output port isolation, while retail MoCA adapters (Ext band D, 1125-1675 MHz) prefer lower output port isolation ... so a given splitter can’t be optimized for both satellite and retail MoCA (band D). The choice isn’t as critical in small, simple setups with a “PoE” MoCA filter properly installed, but grows in importance with coax complexity.
 

redski

Occasional Visitor
If you’re not going to tweak the setup to get an isolated, unsplit line to the modem, the next preference is using a 2-way splitter to feed the modem location (to minimize signal loss) with all other locations hanging off the other side of the 2-way splitter — and with a “PoE” MoCA filter on the input of this top-level splitter.

As a simple alternative, Amphenol Broadband offers a 7-output hybrid MoCA splitter with a similar loss setup (and built-in “PoE” MoCA filter. (see here, here)



Addressed in prior reply. See BAMF’s product description:
VERY HIGH QUALITY, solid built 2-way coax cable splitter designed for CATV or satellite services. Used frequency spectrum 5-2300 MHz for optimal performance on all devices. Whether you are using cable (internet,TV or phone), satellite TV or antenna system we have you covered. Works great with MoCA systems. Zinc die-cast housing with nickel plating, f-type connector, low insertion loss, high isolation, ...​
Okay, after some thought I have decided I'm gonna move the modem and router to the main junction like this.

Is this correct?

I apologize but I'm not really the most technical person so I didn't really understand the answer regarding the splitters at first.


SNB2.png
 

redski

Occasional Visitor
If you’re not going to tweak the setup to get an isolated, unsplit line to the modem, the next preference is using a 2-way splitter to feed the modem location (to minimize signal loss) with all other locations hanging off the other side of the 2-way splitter — and with a “PoE” MoCA filter on the input of this top-level splitter.

As a simple alternative, Amphenol Broadband offers a 7-output hybrid MoCA splitter with a similar loss setup (and built-in “PoE” MoCA filter. (see here, here)



Addressed in prior reply. See BAMF’s product description:
VERY HIGH QUALITY, solid built 2-way coax cable splitter designed for CATV or satellite services. Used frequency spectrum 5-2300 MHz for optimal performance on all devices. Whether you are using cable (internet,TV or phone), satellite TV or antenna system we have you covered. Works great with MoCA systems. Zinc die-cast housing with nickel plating, f-type connector, low insertion loss, high isolation, ...​
So based on my new diagram I should buy 3 of these
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CRQLG8T/?tag=snbforums-20

and one of these
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013ENOTAG/?tag=snbforums-20

plus the filter
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KO5KHSQ/?tag=snbforums-20

these say 5-1675 mhz in description so I think they are the correct ones?
 

krkaufman

Very Senior Member
Okay, after some thought I have decided I'm gonna move the modem and router to the main junction like this.

Is this correct?
Close. Consider that you’ll only have cable Internet service, and no cable TV, right? If so, only the modem requires a connection to the cable provider, so no need for the split upstream from the modem; the incoming cable line can be connected directly to the modem, entirely isolating the cable Internet DOCSIS signals and modem from the “MoCA” signals. (Further, without any splits, the cable Internet signal strength at the modem will be stronger than in the suggested amplified setup.)

As a consequence, you can also eliminate the short coax line connecting the now-removed splitter to the secondary (6-way) splitter, capping this splitter’s input port with a MoCA filter and 75-ohm terminator. (e.g. // Though no longer needed for securing the MoCA network, I prefer sticking with the MoCA filter on the splitter input for its reflective performance benefit; also, it keeps the setup ready for inclusion of an antenna or cable TV signal, should that need arise.)

Aside from using splitters other than the proposed BAMF models, you might consider eliminating splits for coax outlets that won’t be utilized. (Could the 6-way be smaller, one or more of the other 2-way splitters eliminated?)
 
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krkaufman

Very Senior Member

Oh, also... though moot based on my prior reply Re: isolating the modem feed, it is generally correct except for one aspect, the “PoE” MoCA filter location.

In the above diagrammed setup, MoCA signals wouldn’t need to travel anywhere upstream of the 6-way splitter, so the optimal location for the “PoE” MoCA filter would be on the input of the 6-way splitter, making the MoCA network more efficient and with the added benefit of keeping the modem feed free of MoCA signals.
 
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krkaufman

Very Senior Member
these say 5-1675 mhz in description so I think they are the correct ones?
Yeah, those splitters are considered “designed for MoCA.” Any splitters from the same series as the following get the thumbs-up:

See prior reply Re: right-sizing the splitters and coax tree.

edit: p.s. You could stick w the Holland GHS-PRO-M series if you’re willing to risk alternate sources. ex: https://www.wiredathome.com/ghs-2pro-m-catv-moca-rated-2-way-splitter-holland-electronics/
 
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redski

Occasional Visitor
Close. Consider that you’ll only have cable Internet service, and no cable TV, right? If so, only the modem requires a connection to the cable provider, so no need for the split upstream from the modem; the incoming cable line can be connected directly to the modem, entirely isolating the cable Internet DOCSIS signals and modem from the “MoCA” signals. (Further, without any splits, the cable Internet signal strength at the modem will be stronger than in the suggested amplified setup.)
Ahhh that's right I didn't even think about that...

As a consequence, you can also eliminate the short coax line connecting the now-removed splitter to the secondary (6-way) splitter, capping this splitter’s input port with a MoCA filter and 75-ohm terminator. (e.g.// Though no longer needed for securing the MoCA network, I prefer sticking with the MoCA filter on the splitter input for its reflective performance benefit; also, it keeps the setup ready for inclusion of an antenna or cable TV signal, should that need arise.)
Good idea

Aside from using splitters other than the proposed BAMF models, you might consider eliminating splits for coax outlets that won’t be utilized. (Could the 6-way be smaller, one or more of the other 2-way splitters eliminated?)
I want to keep the splitters/all coax jacks in my house wired up for possible expansion in the future if I want ethernet in those rooms. I may end up buying more MoCA devices down the line.

Oh, also... though moot based on my prior reply Re: isolating the modem feed, it is generally correct except for one aspect, the “PoE” MoCA filter location.

In the above diagrammed setup, MoCA signals wouldn’t need to travel anywhere upstream of the 6-way splitter, so the optimal location for the “PoE” MoCA filter would be on the input of the 6-way splitter, making the MoCA network more efficient and with the added benefit of keeping the modem feed free of MoCA signals.
Yep, I understand now

Yeah, those splitters are considered “designed for MoCA.” Any splitters from the same series as the following get the thumbs-up:

See prior reply Re: right-sizing the splitters and coax tree.

edit: p.s. You could stick w the Holland GHS-PRO-M series if you’re willing to risk alternate sources. ex: https://www.wiredathome.com/ghs-2pro-m-catv-moca-rated-2-way-splitter-holland-electronics/
snblist.png


Planning to buy this stuff from wiredathome then since I saw another thread recommending Holland Electronics. (I will purchase terminator caps elsewhere)

Here is my revised diagram... Please let me know if everything looks good.

SNB2.png
 

krkaufman

Very Senior Member
Looks correct, provided all open ports are capped w terminators (including unused pass-through ports on the adapters).
 

redski

Occasional Visitor
Looks correct, provided all open ports are capped w terminators (including unused pass-through ports on the adapters).
Yep I will be sure to cap all of them when I set this up.

So if I did want to get cable tv back up and running along with my cable internet do I just add another MoCA Holland Electronics 2 way splitter at the central junction? Like in this diagram?

SNB2.png


Also thank you so much for all the replies really appreciate it. I was about to do all this without asking for help and would've bought all the wrong stuff and been lost.
 

krkaufman

Very Senior Member
So if I did want to get cable tv back up and running along with my cable internet do I just add another MoCA Holland Electronics 2 way splitter at the central junction? Like in this diagram?
Yes, exactly, though the additional 2-way wouldn’t be required to be a MoCA-compatible model, since it will be located outside the scope of your MoCA network. (If/when that time comes, support for whatever DOCSIS frequencies are in use by your provider would be determinant.)

(and happy to help, where possible)
 

degrub

Very Senior Member
and if you want to use OTA TV signal instead, just connect it to the input of the MOCA POE filter, no need for two way as shown. Use a CM7777HD TV preamp on the antenna mast ( as close to the antenna as you can). With 30dB of budget, that should be enough to reach any receiver on your coax. Or you can use a HDHomerun tuner box instead, placing it at a location convenient to the antenna coax and an ethernet port with the 15 dB budget if ahead of the 8 way splitter.
 

krkaufman

Very Senior Member
and if you want to use OTA TV signal instead, just connect it to the input of the MOCA POE filter, no need for two way as shown. Use a CM7777HD TV preamp on the antenna mast ( as close to the antenna as you can). With 30dB of budget, that should be enough to reach any receiver on your coax. Or you can use a HDHomerun tuner box instead, placing it at a location convenient to the antenna coax and an ethernet port with the 15 dB budget if ahead of the 8 way splitter.
Yep, it’s that flexibility and readiness for either setup (beyond just the performance aspect) that leans me towards sticking with the configuration with the “PoE” MoCA filter on the splitter input port.
edit: NOTE: Reconsidering... if cable TV service were required, it might be necessary to replace the 8-port passive splitter with a MoCA 2.x-compatible amplifier, or perhaps the Amphenol hybrid MoCA splitter. TBD.​

In a similar “future upgrade” vein, if you flip to a fiber Internet provider from cable, little would need to change in the setup: the router’s Ethernet WAN link would just be coming from a device other than the cable modem. (And you can perhaps use the cost negotiating benefits of being able to easily flip between providers as an argument to get fiber Internet to that central junction.)
 
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redski

Occasional Visitor
edit: NOTE: Reconsidering... if cable TV service were required, it might be necessary to replace the 8-port passive splitter with a MoCA 2.x-compatible amplifier, or perhaps the Amphenol hybrid MoCA splitter. TBD.​

Yeah I was actually gonna ask about needing an amp but honestly youtubeTV has been a way better experience so far... I highly doubt I'll ever need it.
 

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