News Here we go. Qualcomm announces Wi-Fi 7 chipset

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member


Key technologies behind the new 5.8 Gbps BNOB are:

Multi-Link

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320 MHz wide channels and 4096 (4K) QAM.
 

sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
I saw that...

Question still remains - how to sort the extended 6GHz spectrum and keep AP's affordable (still need the extra transceiver there).
 

RMerlin

Asuswrt-Merlin dev
And people think 6E APs and routers are expensive...

Back in 2012 I used to feel like my new RT-N66U was a bit expensive at around $180 CAD. Since then manufacturers have now reached $500 for routers, and I expect things to keep going up (with a quad-band router from Asus having recently hit the FCC). I guess it means people are still willing to pay those prices, so manufacturers will just keep pushing them higher.

Wouldn't be so bad if previous generations were actually going down in price as new models come out. Instead, manufacturers are adding higher price brackets on top of the existing ones, and previous models barely dip in price, except for the low-end stuff that still goes even further down.
 

danceedance

Occasional Visitor
arent these prebuild routers use rather less sophisticated chips, the profit margins must be high!

many bcm based high end routers today are still on 28nm and at best 1GB ddr3L ram.
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
I would not say these routers are using 'less sophisticated' SoCs.

And the node they're built on has little to do with it, other than economics (and lately, supply).
 

avtella

Very Senior Member
arent these prebuild routers use rather less sophisticated chips, the profit margins must be high!

many bcm based high end routers today are still on 28nm and at best 1GB ddr3L ram.
Definitely on older nodes (cheaper) and a few generations old ARM CPUs compared to what you see in today’s smart phones and tablets. CPUs mostly being the low power A53s rather than the much larger and more complicated high performance A57 cores of that generation. Raw power wise the Quad Core A15 (predecessor to the A57) in the older Netgear R9000 is more powerful than the Lower power A53s (A53 succeded the A7 and performs near A9 levels when clock matched) in todays models. Still good enough for consumer use plus these A53s are generally having a superior crypto unit allowing better VPN performance than even the old A15 containing routers.

Not like you need an Intel Core series, AMD Ryzen or even an Atom on these for what most people use them for. Simply not worth the hit on margins to cater to a tiny niche. Plus some of those would likely just get/build a seperate wired router at that point. Much of what you pay as a consumer is more for the WiFi component. Even for those who have built x86 boxes in a home environment an Intel Atom C3XX or older Core series or AMD Ryzen is for the most part more than good enough even for multi gig routing. Unless your in a large scale business environment you probably don’t need the bleeding edge chips.
 
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Tech Junky

Very Senior Member
Much of what you pay as a consumer is more for the WiFi component.
Well, that may be the case for 6E boards as the only one I've seen is ~$350 but, then there's a new 6E AP from Netgear for $360 and that's compelling except for the rumor it will cost you a subscription price of $10/unit / year to manage it through their app.

As to the homebrew DIY option if you're using the box for more than just routing / FW / VPN the modularity of it all adds up but the performance outweighs the consumer versions when bundling multiple services into a single device. Being able to pull one piece of tech i.e. AP and swap it out at a reduced price in comparison to a $500+ router makes it easier to stay current w/o paying for unneeded addons / mark ups.

The issue I have with some of this tech being released is for instance I upgraded my WIFI cards over a year ago to 6E and just now seeing 6E AP's being released. Unfortunately Intel locks out AP mode other than 2.4G which makes it a real PITA to spin up 6E since the other players haven't released HW to allow for spinning up a 6E AP.

I suspect 7 will be the same way when it comes to both sides of the link being released.
 

skates15

Occasional Visitor
And people think 6E APs and routers are expensive...
The routers are expensive, but the time I've put into getting my AXE11000 working right with 6E far outweighs the cost of the router.
 

blade12

Occasional Visitor
Don't you need a fast enough net to actually take advantage of wifi 7? The average US household doesn't even hit 50 Mbps. The upper echelon of net speed in USA is 1gbps for the consumer internet plans. Commercial internet, ofc, is an exception for companies and other businesses. I don't really see the need for wifi 7 if we consumers can't even take full advantage of wifi 5 yet (and here we are talking about wifi 7!). The standards keep going up to allow faster speeds, but nothing even close to these speeds exist in the consumer's household. Wifi standards are just becoming gimmicks.

Or am I missing something here?
 

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member
LAN usage.
It's also capacity. The common interpretation of the higher link rates is higher speed for a single device. But it also means higher capacity. A 1 Gbps channel can support simultaneous operation of, say 10 devices @ 100 Mbps each. It scales up or down depending on what the channel will support (and, of course, device mix, distance from AP).

Wi-Fi 7's tricks primarily depend on grabbing even more bandwidth to form wider channels. And, like all previous new 802.11 flavors before it, will require clients that can understand the new bits in the management frames.

Wi-Fi APs are evolving much faster than users' abiity (or willingness) to upgrade their devices to match. It ain't the cost of the razor handle, although that will continue to increase. It's the cost of the blades that will getcha.
 

sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
It's also capacity. The common interpretation of the higher link rates is higher speed for a single device. But it also means higher capacity.

Bingo - and esp for mobile devices (or IoT even) - it's the race to sleep - get on the channel, push the bits over, and go back to sleep as quick as possible.

Comparing N to AC, there were significant gains to be made, and AX built on that...
 

coldengrey

Occasional Visitor
Back in 2012 I used to feel like my new RT-N66U was a bit expensive at around $180 CAD. Since then manufacturers have now reached $500 for routers, and I expect things to keep going up (with a quad-band router from Asus having recently hit the FCC). I guess it means people are still willing to pay those prices, so manufacturers will just keep pushing them higher.

Wouldn't be so bad if previous generations were actually going down in price as new models come out. Instead, manufacturers are adding higher price brackets on top of the existing ones, and previous models barely dip in price, except for the low-end stuff that still goes even further down.
With all the work you've done for this community and networking, in general; in a perfect world, It's unimaginable you'd actually have to pay for the hardware you developed such contributions in FW, etc!!!
May I ask, if any of the open-source FW Router mfr's have reached out to you and either provided or offered to, AT THE VERY LEAST, furnish you with their Hardware? { which, at least from my uninitiated sense is, you've made as many/much contributions to enrich and/or refine firmware, code, bugs; as perhaps any of them, directly employed Mfr's... Well, that may be understating what the technical directors of mfr's FW development team actually do, on the whole -> But YOU, of all people know what I'm getting at and intend to convey }
Hell, I'd be shocked if you haven't been scouted and attempts made to recruit you and your talents, with a full-time position and title!
(OR... Perhaps you already have/are?)
Just attempting to bestow praise and convey the idea that these hardware mfr's ought not ever require such a contributor to pay, out of their own pocket - a product you use as a tool to assist maturation and advanced features, etc!!!
@RMerlin
Grateful and I am,
JD
 

blade12

Occasional Visitor
LAN usage.
So it's pretty much a benefit for inter-network connections (intranet)? Such as for data transfers to/from NAS, to/from IP security cams, etc. For data transfer and connections outside of the network (which is the vast majority of the traffic), you will still be limited by isp internet speeds. If you are a home consumer, don't have NAS or have very many devices like IP cams, you may not benefit enough for it to be worth the upgrade.

The device would also need to support wifi7, which may be many years away if it does take off. That's a separate argument though for another day!
 

RMerlin

Asuswrt-Merlin dev
With all the work you've done for this community and networking, in general; in a perfect world, It's unimaginable you'd actually have to pay for the hardware you developed such contributions in FW, etc!!!
I wasn't doing any router firmware development when I bought the RT-N66U back in 2012. It's the last router I actually purchased, all subsequent routers I've worked on have been provided by Asus (with the exception of two routers that were user-donated).
 

rcfw

Occasional Visitor
I wasn't doing any router firmware development when I bought the RT-N66U back in 2012. It's the last router I actually purchased, all subsequent routers I've worked on have been provided by Asus (with the exception of two routers that were user-donated).
Wait You get Free routers from asus :0 now that’s cool
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
Nothing is 'free'. Only on the surface, it may seem that way. :)
 

torstein

Regular Contributor
Wait You get Free routers from asus :0 now that’s cool
Providing Rmerlin with "free" routers is a very cheap way for Asus to get quality firmware fixes and improvements in return. I'd say Rmerlin is underpaid by Asus.
 

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