In over my head.

[Stephen_D]

Hi Everyone,

Ive been lurking around here for a while, trying to learn what I can (boy is there a lot and boy do I have a lot to learn). I'd like to thank everyone for their various contributions in advance.

I'm currently in the market for a new router. Previously I have used a variety of different devices, most recently and airport extreme, Im tech savvy but not well versed in networks specifically.

A few years ago I moved from a house at 2000 sq ft to an apartment at 837 sq ft. When I first moved in I had a modem that fed my router (The AirPort Extreme), however that was soon "upgraded" by my provider to a modem/router all in one (required to get the faster speeds, cable and DOCSIS3 vs DOCSIS2). Ive been using it ever since, but it is less than stellar. To complicate things, being in a high-rise environment I can see over 30 plus wireless networks at any given time. Its crowded to say the least. Also the building is concrete and in-between the apartments in reinforced by security mesh as well as 2 layers of drywall.

Most recently Ive moved away from my desk top iMac to a new MacBook Pro. This has created the complication of using Time Machine back ups. Since the computer is seldom plugged into the drive, it can go a long time without backing up. This I would like to avoid by using the over the air ability of Time Machine. Unfortunately the USB ports on my providers Modem/Router are disabled and cannot be disabled, they can put it into bridge or IP Passthrough. My first thought was that I would just use the AirPort Extreme again, however it os getting long in the tooth and I thought that I would start exploring the options. This, it would appear is mistake one. In any event, things that interest me are QOS and Parental Controls as well as security. The last one is important as my wife is now pregnant (read we are pregnant) and we plan on using IP based cameras for "baby monitors" but we don't want them compromised. I have a very large budget to throw at this, so money isn't the problem, but obviously I don't want to overspend if Im not going to see any benefit.

Network devices as follows:
Cable (Shaw in Canada) -> Hitron CGNM-2250 Advanced WiFi Modem -> New Router

Wired Connections:
Apple TV (4th Generation)
Android Kodi streaming box (proprietary M8ish box, BlackstreamTV.com
USB 2 X inexpensive bus powered 1tb hd's for backups of MacBooks

Wireless Connections:
Macbook Pro 2017 (mine)
MacBook Pro mid 2014 (wife)
iPhone 6 (wife) (probably upgraded soon)
iPhone 7+ (mine)
iPhone 5s (to be used as baby monitor)
iPad Air (mine)
iPad Mini4 (wife)
3X iHome IW3's scattered around the apartment for air playing music
Wireless Printer HP-1102 LaserJet
Likely 2 or 3 nest cameras.
Likely a nest thermostat.
TV also connects via wireless but don't use it for anything other than firmware.

Ive previously used net-gear products: Originally drawn to the Nighthawk H6X R800P due to its intelligent load sharing, but then looked at the R8500 which seems to have QOS but looses the extra off load processors it has less antennas but seems to be a better shape for where I would place it... Then looked at the R9000 and got really confused. Looked at the Synology RT2600, then like everything from ASUS then the RT-AC68U as it can firmware changed, but then I got worried about using open firmware.

All of that to say, I was wondering if you guys could point me in the right direction.


Thanks again in advance!

Stephen

 

[thiggins]

A few questions:

What is your service down/upload?

What does "less than stellar" performance mean?

How is the current router doing for 2.4 and 5 GHz range?

Where is the router/modem placed (location in apt. and surroundings, i.e. in cabinet, on shelf, up high, down low)?

 

[Stephen_D]

A few questions:

What is your service down/upload?

What does "less than stellar" performance mean?

How is the current router doing for 2.4 and 5 GHz range?

Where is the router/modem placed (location in apt. and surroundings, i.e. in cabinet, on shelf, up high, down low)?

Hi Thiggins, thanks for your reply; your expertise is very much appreciated.

Service is 150 Mbps down and 15 Mbps up. Hardwired I have seen 176 down and 20 up so I believe they cap it slightly higher than advertised. On the 2.4 ghz connection I can't get anything above 40 down and 10 up with an 18ms ping (just ran it 44.46 down and 14.23 up, so Im a liar) on the 5 ghz connection (router advertises separate SSID's) I normal get in the 130's down and 18 up though it surges and throttles back (just ran at 103.77 and 16.71).
With all that said, TV is an IP based TV and does seem to eat some bandwidth. If I unplug the box I can get into the high 150's down on the 5 ghz network, 2.4 seems fixed with what I get above. Keep in mind that the IP TV box has its own coax cable connection (thus its own modem) so Shaw (provider) must count it in the CAP on their end. Im hoping if I get the modem/router bridged (or with IP Passthrough) it picks up, supposedly they assign a second static IP when they do this, so maybe better?

"Less than stellar" wasn't so much in relation to performance but rather features. Many of the routers internal features are locked down or turned off by default. Range has been fine, mostly, its a pretty small space. Outdoor with the sliding glass doors closed has been an issue in the past, but seems to be working well now. I would like to maximize the speed of the network as much as possible, particularly with getting time machine over the air back ups going. I would also like to have a little bit more control over the network from a security standpoint, particularly when we get the web cams going. Im not sure what other features I would like to have, but I also would like a rather simple dependable interface, I was very happy with the airport extreme in this regard. Also I would like to get away from the two SSID's for different speeds and would like to have a few more options in terms of the router intelligently balancing load. Ie it decides which devices use which bands etc. A number of routers claim to do this, but I was hoping that people on here can separate the wheat from the chaff in the reality that this plays. Lastly Im hoping to have this for a little while, Im not a new router a year kind guy. If I could get 5 years conceivably out of this that would be good, more would be great. I am a fan of the router being OTA upgraded regularly.

I have attached photos of the apartments lay out. Router currently sits where the yellow box is on the plan. Apartment is wired with structural cabling, I believe its Cat5 (could be Cat5e, was built in 2010). It also has fiber running in the building to support different providers. All the coax, cat5 phone, cat5 network and fiber to the home run into a structure wiring drop panel in the closet, indicated in the green box. I used to work in a home automation company while I was in university doing installs in custom homes (new build and retrofit). Its not the prettiest thing Ive seen but it works. I do have a coax to ip phone box in the structured cable drop cabinet that provides phone service to the house, it does not seem to impact the obtainable network speeds.

I spent a great deal of time with the charts and recommended routers portion last night. I found it a little confusing, try as I might I couldn't get my head around the Revision 9 vs Revision 10 testing method. I read it, seriously several times, but its like full on long white beard wizard level geek, I have like a moustache and some stubble (and its patchy).

Part of me just wants to buy the Asus GT-AC5300, but part of me knows that Ill never ever be able to use it fully. Also, I likely won't be able to figure out how to do half of the stuff. Ive been looking carefully at the Netgear X4S R7800 but the single USB 3 port has me flummoxed as it appears it cannot use a hub so multiple drives are out (I guess I could get one drive). The Netgear X6S R8000P was one of the originals the drew me into this, however Im not sure its antenna's will work well for me. I was hoping to mount the new router on the back of the cabinet and then rotate the antennas up, which I don't think I can do. For some reason I keep getting drawn back to the Synology AC2600, however the single USB 3 port has me worried and Synology doesn't support hubs, even though their forums indicate they do work (sort of). None of these have very robust parental controls (which isn't really important now but Im future proofing).

Most frustrating to me is when you go to various vendors and try to compare even their own routers, they have different ways of describing the same technologies or leave certain things off the "compare" lists that you then find in the router specific page. Guess I need to dive back in and start growing my beard, up that wizard level.

Thanks again for your help and any advice you can provide!

Stephen

 

[thiggins]

Lots of information there. Thanks.

The difference in test methods boils down to measurement method and client used. Bottom line is that results can't be compared between the two methods.

If range is ok using an ISP provided 3x3 router sitting inside low inside a cabinet, I'd say your throughput problems are primarily on the client side. So any 3x3 or 4x4 router is likely to work fine for you.

I don't see any need for a tri-band router. It might help only if you were willing to set a differnet SSID for one of the 5 GHz radios and manually assign slower devices (N, 1x1 AC, distant devices) to it.

If the TV isn't using the network for content, I'd shut off its radio to stop the network slowdown.

Don't assume that router-based storage sharing supports Time Machine. I don't test for it, so ask/search to see if candidates you're considering support it.

The NETGEAR R7800 is a good 4x4 AC router. With up to 8 TB USB 3.0 drives available, do you really need multiple ports?

If you want the most knobs to twiddle, ASUS or Synology would be your choice.

 

[Internet Man]

The Hitron CGNM-2250 specs are very good. Being an ISP-provided device, it's not surprising that many options are locked down. If you were happy with the Wi-Fi performance of your Airport Extreme then you can look into configuring IP Passthrough on the Hitron device (factory reset to see the option as discussed here or official instructions) using the Airport Extreme as your router. Alternatively, look into configuring the Hitron device as a bridge. See these:

https://www.reddit.com/r/shaw/comments/4daasj/hitron_cgnm2250_enabling_bridge_mode/
https://www.reddit.com/r/shaw/comments/5ydlv4/how_do_you_put_hitron_cgnm2250_into_bridged_mode/