Max Number of devices on a Aimesh Setup

[Dapolux]

Hello,

Quick summary on my actual installation:
-House is ~2100 sq ft (~700 x 3 floors)
-1 Routeur per floor: ax58u (main), ac88u (aimesh node), ac68u (aimesh node), main is connected to nodes with eth wired connection. All of them are working on Asus Merlin 384.19_0
-~60 Devices (~10 wired + 50 wireless), only few of them are 5gz capable, and none of them are Wifi6 / AX capable (anyway, AX is disabled)

1) Is my AC88U to be replaced?
So few months back, i was running only with the AC88U as a main + the AC68U as an aimesh node, and randomly, the connection falled down (sometimes all was fine during a month, sometimes only few days). This was affecting Wifi, but also Wired.
After rebooting the router, all was working fine again until next freeze. I tryed several modifications in the parameters, i was also thinking that it was due to too much temperature (i bought an aluminium base with a fan for laptops), but the issue continued appearing randomly.
I finally bought a 3rd router, the ax58, which is now my main, and since that (few weeks now), i didn't have any global freeze, but i had once an issue with all what was connected to the ac88u. Again after a reboot (only this router), all was fine again.
==> So basically, i guess that there is something wrong with this one, and as i bought it less than a year ago, it's under warranty i can contact Asus (or Amazon maybe, where i bought it), but should i test and/or verify something before? (support services is always complicated , and after rebooting all is fine, will be complicated for support services)

2) Number of devices issue?
So this one is my main issue. Globally, all my Iot devices are correctly connected to the network, but with mobile phone and/or tablets (globaly, the moving devices), sometimes, the wifi connection is not able to be etablished, until i move to another place in the house (so it probably changes to another router connection), and/or just changing a paramater + saving int the router interface (like activating / desactivating smart connect).
So I suspect that the issue is due to a maximum number of devices per router and/or per band. On some topics here, i read that the limit should be 25 wifi devices (per router band), which is never written in asus specs, but sometimes i'm having this issue even if the connection on 1 single router are less than 25, so maybe there is a limit for the whole local network.
I can release some Iot wifi connection to the router (i can connect for exemple a small additional access point which will be connected with ETH to the router), but i'm not sure that it will work, and anyway it's not the idea for my asus local network.
Following to different topics, i tried different settings (with and without smart connect, fixing the bandwith, fixing the canal, disabling roaming assistant, disabling airtime fairness.
My number of devices will continue to increase, so anyway i need to find the source of the issue.
Any idea / suggestion?

Thanks for your help (and sorry for the long speech ).

 

[OzarkEdge]

Hello,

Quick summary on my actual installation:
-House is ~2100 sq ft (~700 x 3 floors)
-1 Routeur per floor: ax58u (main), ac88u (aimesh node), ac68u (aimesh node), main is connected to nodes with eth wired connection. All of them are working on Asus Merlin 384.19_0
-~60 Devices (~10 wired + 50 wireless), only few of them are 5gz capable, and none of them are Wifi6 / AX capable (anyway, AX is disabled)

1) Is my AC88U to be replaced?
So few months back, i was running only with the AC88U as a main + the AC68U as an aimesh node, and randomly, the connection falled down (sometimes all was fine during a month, sometimes only few days). This was affecting Wifi, but also Wired.
After rebooting the router, all was working fine again until next freeze. I tryed several modifications in the parameters, i was also thinking that it was due to too much temperature (i bought an aluminium base with a fan for laptops), but the issue continued appearing randomly.
I finally bought a 3rd router, the ax58, which is now my main, and since that (few weeks now), i didn't have any global freeze, but i had once an issue with all what was connected to the ac88u. Again after a reboot (only this router), all was fine again.
==> So basically, i guess that there is something wrong with this one, and as i bought it less than a year ago, it's under warranty i can contact Asus (or Amazon maybe, where i bought it), but should i test and/or verify something before? (support services is always complicated , and after rebooting all is fine, will be complicated for support services)

2) Number of devices issue?
So this one is my main issue. Globally, all my Iot devices are correctly connected to the network, but with mobile phone and/or tablets (globaly, the moving devices), sometimes, the wifi connection is not able to be etablished, until i move to another place in the house (so it probably changes to another router connection), and/or just changing a paramater + saving int the router interface (like activating / desactivating smart connect).
So I suspect that the issue is due to a maximum number of devices per router and/or per band. On some topics here, i read that the limit should be 25 wifi devices (per router band), which is never written in asus specs, but sometimes i'm having this issue even if the connection on 1 single router are less than 25, so maybe there is a limit for the whole local network.
I can release some Iot wifi connection to the router (i can connect for exemple a small additional access point which will be connected with ETH to the router), but i'm not sure that it will work, and anyway it's not the idea for my asus local network.
Following to different topics, i tried different settings (with and without smart connect, fixing the bandwith, fixing the canal, disabling roaming assistant, disabling airtime fairness.
My number of devices will continue to increase, so anyway i need to find the source of the issue.
Any idea / suggestion?

Thanks for your help (and sorry for the long speech ).

The AC88U has a reputation for the upper LAN5-8 ports failing. Could it be that backhauls/clients on those wired LAN ports had connection issues? If so, you could avoid using the AC88U LAN5-8 ports to see if the issues clear.

OE

 

[L&LD]

I would not be running an AiMesh network today with firmware from this past summer. The RMerlin 386.1 Beta 2 firmware is stable for many today.

Also, there is closer to a 32-client limit for each radio band for wireless clients for most consumer routers today. So, even with a single router, with clients balanced between the two radios/bands, you should still have a stable, if not a fast, network. With two routers, your needs are easily covered and you don't have to worry about the bands used anymore by any particular client device, even though you should still limit certain devices to the slower 2.4GHz network when and where you can.

Are the three routers one above the other, relative to the main router? How are they positioned in relationship to each other? I believe you have too much Wi-Fi in your 'smaller' home. While the three levels make it seem bigger, they only need to cover 700 SqFt, if placed in a central location. I would not be surprised to see the RT-AX58U have the most 'reach' and throughput if placed centrally too. If you can do that, that is where I would start. Then, only add an additional AP, if needed.

To get your routers back to a solid base again, I would suggest resetting each of them, starting with the main router and following the suggestions below. You may also want to flash the Beta 2 I suggest above, first.

New M&M 2020

I would then flash the same Beta firmware to the next router that you'll be using as an AiMesh node, after doing the following steps (which are part of the steps included in the link above too).

Beta - Asuswrt-Merlin 386.1 Beta is now available

I recently factory reset my AX88U and currently on Beta 2. After manually setting up everything up again (painfully) my router ALWAYS "crashes" if I make changes now. well I just loses internet and I have to end up rebooting it even though some of the changes made by default doesn't require a...

www.snbforums.com

Do the same for the last router too, but only if you really need the Wi-Fi coverage it will provide. Do not just blindly add it to your network.

Ideally, the best location of the routers, if we're seeing your home from the (long) side, is as shown below, for your wired or wireless AiMesh nodes (or, as close to this as possible).


Top Floor: ------------------AiMesh node ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Main Floor: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Main AiMesh Router--------------------

Bottom Floor: ------------------AiMesh node ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


With the routers updated to current firmware (albeit with a few bugs for some), fully reset, wired, and optimally placed, the issues you're describing should be a thing of the past.

Additionally, if that RT-AC88U continues to give issues, the link below may help further in determining if it is a hardware issue for you.

Fully Reset Router and Network

I am sure some, or all the above suggestions if followed fully, can help bring your network back to stable and reliable for you again. And hopefully, with even more performance too.

 

[Dapolux]

Hello,

Thanks for your replies.

@OE: AC88U eth clients are already connected to Lan 1 to 4 (i only have one). Eth connection to the main router is done with the WAN port.

@L&LD: Thanks for your detailled answer, here are some comments:

Router positioning is the following one (so it is already like you propose). Please note that it is mandatory for me to get the main in the garage, as is the central point for all my installation. This one has concrete walls, and thats why i lose coverage, it's not possible for me to put it in a central place. Rest of the internal walls are wood / dry walls. Before i add the 3rd on the top, it was complicated to get a signal in that place.

Regarding your answer, you speak about 32 clients per radio band, i guess this number is "per router", so this means that "theorically" i should understand: ax58u = ~32 in 2.4gz, + 32 in 5gz, same for ac68u, and for ac88u, same +32 as it has 2x 5gz band.
Remark: i never feel any "speed" issue, at least on my usage (maybe because what need strong bandwith uses eth).
Most of the wifi clients are on 2,4gz (Iot), on the 50 wifi client less than 10 are 5ghz capable.

I'll try then to install this beta release as you propose (i guess then i should install it in all the routers, main + nodes), and fully reset all from scratch (maybe i will just restore part (as i need more thant the 2999char limit) of the dhcp entries with the dhcp_staticlist nvram variable).

Thank you and have a nice day.

 

[L&LD]

I think you're set up very well then and you have a good understanding too of the 'per radio' capabilities.

The only thing I can add is that in your diagram if you can re-locate the RT-AC88U node more towards the center of the home, you should not need the third router upstairs at all (you've probably tried that though). What allows this option in your installation is the concrete walls in the garage (which segregates the Wi-Fi nicely here). Even if you're able to re-locate the AC88U right above the main router, it may still give all the signal you need for your home. Don't forget to test if the RT-AC68U or the RT-AC88U is the better, wired, AiMesh node in your environment too. Once an AiMesh node is added, you can turn it off and move it at will to test for its best placement within the home.

Please keep us posted on your results.

Have a wonderful day and a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and yours.

 

[Dapolux]

Thank you for the feedback.

Unfortenely, moving a node to the center is more complicated for me (not really beautiful/comfortable in the rooms, close to an eth access).
I'll keep you informed after testings.

Thank you for the help, and Happy Christmas / New Year too!

 

[Dapolux]

Hello,

First of all happy new year to everybody!

Now comming back to my issue, i'm still continuing to have connection problems (to remind: impossibility to connect new devices while others are not disconnected).

So as suggested, i have reinstalled my whole network:
- RMerlin 386.1 Beta 2 installation on the 3 routers
- Default initialization
- New SSID (was quite long to switch the SSID on all my network devices )
- Disable WPS
- Disable universal beamforming
- Channel 11 for 2.4 gz band (also tried 6 and 1)
- Channel 112 for 5 gz. (suggestion was on 161, but i don't have the possibility to go on more than 140)
- Adding the 2 Aimesh nodes
- Reassignement of DHCP manual assignements (to keep it clean, i finally didnt used the dhcp_staticlist nvram variable, so it was quite long ).


I did some tests moving the routers on different places, only putting 1 node with always same results (except that i was covering less places).
I think there are not "too much" devices per router / band as i'm anyway under 32 per router:

I experienced also to remove some devices on one place (connected to one node), and then the others were able to connect again.

So i feel that the issue is not a maximum of devices for 1 band / router, but more an issue to a maximum of devices for the whole aimesh network (is this possible?).
Also, if new devices tries to connect without DCHP manual assignation, it seems that the connection works better. I actually have 42 devices in the manual IP assignation (DCHP server tab), the rest of the devices are with automatic dhcp. Is it possible that i reached a limit ? (the screen shows that the limit is 64 devices). In that case, if a switch fixing the IPs in each device, should it be better?
Other suggestions?

Ps: Doing my tests i tried to pass some iots in a dedicated guest ssid (to easily switch on / off some of them), but then i've seen that guest ssid only works from the main router, not on the nodes . Hope in future releases this will evolve . I know that it is in progress and/or to come, but at least right now not working for me, and no option on the guest tab to extend to the aimesh nodes.

 

[Dapolux]

Hello,

So to give some news, after doing more changes / tests, i found that the issue was focused on some specific clients, and after changing the place of one of the nodes, it was better (even if initially the signal was >50%). It seems that even at 2 meters from the router, a concrete wall blocks too much.

During few days it was fine, but now i have again the issue, and i see a new error on the logs that i never had before:

Jan 7 03:14:44 kernel: 8C:AA:B5:06:17:9E not mesh client, can't update it's ip
Jan 7 03:15:14 kernel: 8C:AA:B5:06:17:9E not mesh client, can't update it's ip
Jan 7 03:16:45 kernel: 8C:AA:B5:06:17:9E not mesh client, can't update it's ip
Jan 7 03:17:11 kernel: 8C:AA:B5:06:17:9E not mesh client, can't update it's ip
Jan 7 03:17:13 kernel: 8C:AA:B5:06:17:9E not mesh client, can't update it's ip
Jan 7 03:17:17 kernel: 8C:AA:B5:06:17:9E not mesh client, can't update it's ip
Jan 7 03:17:25 kernel: 8C:AA:B5:06:17:9E not mesh client, can't update it's ip
Jan 7 03:19:56 kernel: 8C:AA:B5:06:17:9E not mesh client, can't update it's ip
Jan 7 03:29:35 kernel: 8C:AA:B5:06:17:9E not mesh client, can't update it's ip
Jan 7 03:31:45 kernel: 8C:AA:B5:06:17:9E not mesh client, can't update it's ip
Jan 7 03:35:11 kernel: 8C:AA:B5:06:17:9E not mesh client, can't update it's ip

The issue is almost always with the same mac address (which of course never joins the network).

 

[Dapolux]

I don't know if it's due to murphy's law, but just after writing the previous message, the device which was not able to connect since several hours, finally connected without doing anything in the system (for information, signal is -71dBm, and its an Iot device which is not moving).

Previous error message in the logs is no more appearing, but i have a new one:

Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: CPU: 1 PID: 1517 Comm: dcd Tainted: P O 4.1.52 #1
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: Hardware name: Generic DT based system
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: task: ccdbe000 ti: cd354000 task.ti: cd354000
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: PC is at 0x2a760
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: LR is at 0x2a9e0
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: pc : [<0002a760>] lr : [<0002a9e0>] psr: 200b0010
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: sp : be83d968 ip : 000a311c fp : 000825f4
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: r10: 00000026 r9 : 00000003 r8 : 00000026
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: r7 : b58fedc4 r6 : 00000036 r5 : 00000242 r4 : b58fee24
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: r3 : 00000000 r2 : 00000024 r1 : 00000015 r0 : 00000000
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: Flags: nzCv IRQs on FIQs on Mode USER_32 ISA ARM Segment user
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: Control: 10c5387d Table: 107a004a DAC: 00000015
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: CPU: 1 PID: 1517 Comm: dcd Tainted: P O 4.1.52 #1
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: Hardware name: Generic DT based system
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: [<c0026e60>] (unwind_backtrace) from [<c0022c38>] (show_stack+0x10/0x14)
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: [<c0022c38>] (show_stack) from [<c044f0c4>] (dump_stack+0x8c/0xa0)
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: [<c044f0c4>] (dump_stack) from [<c003aacc>] (get_signal+0x490/0x558)
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: [<c003aacc>] (get_signal) from [<c00221d0>] (do_signal+0xc8/0x3ac)
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: [<c00221d0>] (do_signal) from [<c0022658>] (do_work_pending+0x94/0xa4)
Jan 7 18:54:16 kernel: [<c0022658>] (do_work_pending) from [<c001f4cc>] (work_pending+0xc/0x20

maybe i can just ignore it (anyway i don't understand it) .

 

[Dapolux]

Well, i'm losing my hair with my AiMesh...

After several new tries, changing placement, removing nodes, adding them again, 1 node, 2 nodes, no nodes, reinstallations, i'm still having the same issue, when i use more than ~30 wireless devices (4 of them are 5gz)
==> Some random devices can't connect to the network, and if i reboot the router, i still have some random devices which can't join the nework (but could be others, it's not always the same than before reboot).

So, as discussed earlier, i understood that there is a limit at 32 devices per band, per router, but, in addition, is there any number of devices limit for "the whole aimesh installation", and/or any limit "per channel"? (knowing of course that on the aimesh setup, router + nodes will use the same channel).

Is there anyone here who is handling more than 30 wireless devices on 2,4gz on the same aimesh without this problem with a similar setup?

For information, devices non accessible are in the logs as: Jan 12 17:51:04 kernel: xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:AB not mesh client, can't update it's ip
And they seems to have an ip assigned (i see them in the devices list): exemple (this ESP with IP 192.168.1.120 is not "really" connected to the network even i see it in the router) :

(Sorry for the french screenshot, is just to show that i can't reach it with a ping. When it correctly connects to the network, it's reachable with ping).

Ps: Latests tests done with the 386.1_beta4 on each router.

 

[L&LD]

(Guess) Your issues may be from having an AX router as the main and AC routers as nodes.

What Wireless Mode is the RT-AX58U using for each band?

Are not more devices capable of connecting to the 5GHz network?

Have you tried rebooting the entire network via the System Reboot option in AiMesh, System Settings?

Using Control Channel 112 may be causing some issues? Can you try a non-DFS Control Channel instead? And reboot the system with the method above.

Are you setting the AiMesh system in Ethernet Backhaul mode? Or is it in Auto? Or, something else?

If you are using Ethernet Backhaul mode, you need to turn it off before connecting your nodes again (after they've been fully reset).

See if the following suggestions/steps make any improvements for your network.

New M&M 2020

How to Connect an AiMesh Node

Keep in mind that you shouldn't select which steps you will perform. All are important in the order given.

Overall, you want to reset the nodes and leave them alone in the room that the main router is in. Reset the main router and follow the suggested defaults in the first link above. Then, add the nodes.

You may also want to try the suggestions below to get your routers back to a good/known state.

Fully Reset Router and Network

 

[Dapolux]

Hello,

Thank's alot for your support on my issues.
I tried the different suggestions, but the issue were stille there.
I then tested changing the Bandwith channel for the 5gz chanel (to 80mhz, as 2,4gz uses 20/40mhz), and until that, connections seems to be better (i will follow it closely in the comming days, but for the moment it seems good):

Extract for the pinged devices for the last 24h (ping every 10 seconds), red blocks are normal (bulbs switched off + tv disconnected), having done a test rebooting the router, and all came back, so right now is great.

So for that, 5gz channel is 40, with 80mhz for the bandwith, and 2,4gz, canal 11, with auto bandwith (20/40 mhz).


So to answer to your suggestions/remarks:

(Guess) Your issues may be from having an AX router as the main and AC routers as nodes.

Unless i'm mistaken, it is supposed to have this mix. Anyway, same issue was happening earlier with only AC routers

What Wireless Mode is the RT-AX58U using for each band?

Auto for both:

Are not more devices capable of connecting to the 5GHz network?

Only few of them (phones, tablets, and TV). Iot devices are usually on 2,4 (Shelly, Yeelights, Esp ...)

Have you tried rebooting the entire network via the System Reboot option in AiMesh, System Settings?

Yes i did (several times in fact )

Using Control Channel 112 may be causing some issues? Can you try a non-DFS Control Channel instead? And reboot the system with the method above.

I tested different once without success. So as per your suggestion, i keep it at 40 now (161 is not available for me).

Are you setting the AiMesh system in Ethernet Backhaul mode? Or is it in Auto? Or, something else?
If you are using Ethernet Backhaul mode, you need to turn it off before connecting your nodes again (after they've been fully reset).

It's set to auto, but i can't modify it. Anyway it's always using ethernet.

See if the following suggestions/steps make any improvements for your network.

New M&M 2020

How to Connect an AiMesh Node

Keep in mind that you shouldn't select which steps you will perform. All are important in the order given.

Overall, you want to reset the nodes and leave them alone in the room that the main router is in. Reset the main router and follow the suggested defaults in the first link above. Then, add the nodes.

You may also want to try the suggestions below to get your routers back to a good/known state.

Fully Reset Router and Network

Already done (twice), that was quite long and didn't helped.


I was close to sell the routers to switch to a ubiquiti unifi solution (i can return the AX58u to Amazon until end of this month), but if finally it works, and with the all the time already spend, i will keep it like that if it continues working .
Now i should restrict buying new iots (but will be hard for me ), otherwise I will not be able to affect manual IPs in the DHCP (limit is at 64), otherwise they will have automatic IPs.

Thanks alot for your help and support.

 

[L&LD]

Seems you're using hidden channels. Don't.

YazDHCP - feature expansion of DHCP assignments (increasing limit on the number of DHCP reservations) | SmallNetBuilder Forums (snbforums.com)

 

[Dapolux]

What do you mean by "hidden channels"?

Theses are the available ones (for the 5gz, if i swith the bandwith to auto (20/40/80), then i can set the channel until 140):

Thank's for the link for the DHCP expansion. Initially i was trying to avoid adding custom addons to asus merlin, but if my setup is stabilized, and this doesn't hurts the stability, why not .

 

[L&LD]

Sorry, hidden SSID's, not channels.

 

[Dapolux]

Ah, ok. SSID's are not hidden. (Hide SSID = No)

 

[Dapolux]

Hello,

So me again .
After working properly for some days, again i'm having problems with my AImesh:

1 of the nodes (the AC68U) has some devices already connected (15 on 2,4hz band), but if i move for exemple with a new device close to him (tried with a phone, and also with a tablet, tried connecting on the 2,4 gz ssid, but also with the 5ghz ssid), this new device is not able to join (and trying to renew the connection on the iphone, after some time it says that the password is wrong even if its the correct ones).

If i move the devices close to another node, it joins correctly.
If i restart the whole network, it works again properly.

Any "new" idea?

 

[L&LD]

What firmware are your routers running right now?

 

[Dapolux]

They all are on 386.1_beta4

 

[JayRitz]

Hello,

So me again .
After working properly for some days, again i'm having problems with my AImesh:

1 of the nodes (the AC68U) has some devices already connected (15 on 2,4hz band), but if i move for exemple with a new device close to him (tried with a phone, and also with a tablet, tried connecting on the 2,4 gz ssid, but also with the 5ghz ssid), this new device is not able to join (and trying to renew the connection on the iphone, after some time it says that the password is wrong even if its the correct ones).

If i move the devices close to another node, it joins correctly.
If i restart the whole network, it works again properly.

Any "new" idea?

You know far more and have tried far more than I have.

But my story is similar, with all of the frustration and less of an idea of how to fix it.

I have an ASUS Lyra trio. Set up via backhaul to Verizon router. I think my house has about 26 devices because everything works great for a few weeks, but then we pull out an old iPad or use a smart TV and - boom - can’t connect to network. I reset everything and it works fine for a few more weeks.

I have NEVER seen more than 25 devices on the network. And usually we’re fine. But then my parents or in-laws come over with their computers, phones, iPads... and the entire network just seems to shut down. And still, only 25 devices on the network at any time.

So when we have company at the house, I have to go around unplugging the Apple TV, Roku, Nest cams... turn the iPads to airplane mode, etc. just to keep it under 25 devices.

I never knew where the limitation was, but it has to be the ASUS stuff.

Anyone have any recommendations for a backhaul-type setup that can handle more devices? Commercial grade AP of some sort?

I have 1 or 2 Ethernet jacks on every floor of the house. There has to be something that is just plug and play, right?!?!