NAT reminder.

[podkaracz]

Ive been strugling with unstable connection all the time but i think ive found source. It all comes down to your isp. By this i mean not only quality of connection in my case radio which is bad compared to fibre lets say but also the fact that you might be behind dual NAT which i dont know how but interrupts connection and makes it unstable. I opened all ports and stuff for my games as well as for services like xbox and im still behind nat. The ping jumps seems to be steady but its late in night so it might change once the traffic hits but still. I think before you blame router for beeing faulty you should consider that you might be behind dual NAT and i still dont know how to resolve it. Ill probably call my isp to remove anything that separates me from the internet so that my router is the only line of defence and if needed i can configure it for my needs ( which will probably result in open nat that might fix some issues that ive encountered.

 

[dosborne]

I disagree. NAT is a simple networking function. Everyone on the internet is multiple layers inside many NAT levels. I've always run at least a double NAT internally as cannot measurable demonstrate any appreciable difference.

I would be more inclined to suspect, and believe, that poor cables, insulation and shielfing, quality connectors, leaking interference or other factors would have an impact.

 

[podkaracz]

I disagree. NAT is a simple networking function. Everyone on the internet is multiple layers inside many NAT levels. I've always run at least a double NAT internally as cannot measurable demonstrate any appreciable difference.

I would be more inclined to suspect, and believe, that poor cables, insulation and shielfing, quality connectors, leaking interference or other factors would have an impact.

In my case i see drop in spikes when opening everything on my router but still beeing behind nat somewhere so in my case its proven to work.

 

[OzarkEdge]

Ive been strugling with unstable connection all the time but i think ive found source. It all comes down to your isp. By this i mean not only quality of connection in my case radio which is bad compared to fibre lets say but also the fact that you might be behind dual NAT which i dont know how but interrupts connection and makes it unstable. I opened all ports and stuff for my games as well as for services like xbox and im still behind nat. The ping jumps seems to be steady but its late in night so it might change once the traffic hits but still. I think before you blame router for beeing faulty you should consider that you might be behind dual NAT and i still dont know how to resolve it. Ill probably call my isp to remove anything that separates me from the internet so that my router is the only line of defence and if needed i can configure it for my needs ( which will probably result in open nat that might fix some issues that ive encountered.

I think you are right to look elsewhere for the issue besides blaming your router/firmware, but I think you should investigate and determine the issue first before blaming WAN network arrangements. Figure it out first... solve it... and then share.

OE

 

[ColinTaylor]

I'd agree with @dosborne, NAT in itself would not "interrupt your connection and make it unstable". However, that's not to say that changing NAT might have some coincidental effect on an application, perhaps exaggerated by poor line quality. But that would be more of an issue with the application design rather than with NAT.

 

[podkaracz]

There are like 2 big isp's that wont block ports and 1 that is orange that block ports. Im using local radio internet and i can tell by running traceroute that after my router ip there is a isp gateway and then some ip and then 4th is again isp ip so im not sure whats going on. When i opened all the ports on my router it felt better and it was measurable to see lower variable in ping and higher connection stability but when testing online still all the ports were closed/invisible to the internet. Ill call my isp to unlock all the ports for me so my router is the only defence. If there is some1 that can lets say make "traceroute 8.8.8.8" and explain each line to me so i can troubleshoot what im actually seeing there. Also is traceroute a good way to find out whats the problem with lets say double nat?

 

[OzarkEdge]

Maybe the radio Internet link is saturated... over-sold and under-provisioned... and all last mile traffic is suffering delays.

OE

 

[dlandiss]

I disagree. NAT is a simple networking function. Everyone on the internet is multiple layers inside many NAT levels. I've always run at least a double NAT internally as cannot measurable demonstrate any appreciable difference.

I concur. Anyone who thinks their connections do not pass through several IP Addresses should review the attached clip.

 

[podkaracz]

I concur. Anyone who thinks their connections do not pass through several IP Addresses should review the attached clip.

View attachment 28613

Just check this
1.My router ip
2.My isp gateway ( i know cuz i have static ip and i post this ip into gateway section)
3.I have no idea what that is
4.This ip has name of my internet provider in it so probably isp related too.


I have radio internet but 4 steps before it even exit my territory is a lot dont you think?

 

[ColinTaylor]

I have radio internet but 4 steps before it even exit my territory is a lot dont you think?

No, that's perfectly normal. In fact I'd say that's a lot better than most ISP connections (compare your results to the previous post). The only numbers that matter are the ones for the destination and with a response time of 8ms I'd call that very good.

 

[podkaracz]

No, that's perfectly normal. In fact I'd say that's a lot better than most ISP connections (compare your results to the previous post). The only numbers that matter are the ones for the destination and with a response time of 8ms I'd call that very good.

Ping to google means nothing as its different server than most games use. And in my case its probably pinging google server that is located in Poland so its not a surprise you can compare it with photo of @dlandiss and you see its a different destination server. And ping is dictated by distance to host server and not quality of isp most of the time when there are no routing issues which are non existant pretty much in anyh bigger company. One of the biggest positives for an isp nowdays when looking from gamer perspective is open nat since ping difference is usually in a range of 5ms when using the same technology when comparing isp's. Also Im talking about double nat and not ping here. Based on logic its probably: my antenna ( can it have separate line there?) ( isp anthenna) and then double nat thats how it probably is when i thought about it physically where it must travel to reach internet.

 

[ColinTaylor]

I was directly answering your question "I have radio internet but 4 steps before it even exit my territory is a lot dont you think?".

Put simply my answer was, No I don't think 4 hops is a lot. I don't have double NAT and I have 6 hops before leaving my country.

 

[podkaracz]

I was directly answering your question "I have radio internet but 4 steps before it even exit my territory is a lot dont you think?".

Put simply my answer was, No I don't think 4 hops is a lot. I don't have double NAT and I have 6 hops before leaving my country.

You still dont get it. I want open nat to connect to every1 freely = easier to find games when you can join people that you cant join with strict nat that means game can choose the best server for you cuz of open nat and that means lower distance and lower ping at the same time. Before this you cant join certain people cuz of nat difference. I see your not into this topic.
Look you judged my isp based on pinging google. Here is the proof that you were wrong by doing this. Just watch traceroute to the same host as @dlandiss Its probably google servers in usa or somewhere around based on ping. Also i said "my territory when refering to home city". If we are talking about my country then its around 10 hops.

 

[ColinTaylor]

I was just answering the question you asked. If your questions are nonsense that's your problem. Goodbye.

 

[OzarkEdge]

Open NAT, Double NAT, NAT reminders... you've just got lousy Internet service for playing games.

OE

 

[podkaracz]

I was just answering the question you asked. If your questions are nonsense that's your problem. Goodbye.

I dont know why you seem offended. I appreciate every1 who tries to help but in this case you were wrong in nearly everything you wrote. And if we judge from logical point of view you will edit your post to "i wrote nonsense answers". The question was about my isp having double nat and its impact on gaming as well as about those 3 hops after my router ip. I observed better connection by opening most common ports on my router but when testing online it showed im still nated so its a clear sign on double nat that prevents me from troubleshooting my connection. In 100's of guides and all official games ive seen one of the steps is opening ports and for this to work you cant be double natted or it wont work. There is literally not a single game ive played that is not touching on nat issues. Lets say few Microsoft ( creator of windows and xbox) advises to check nat and suggest open helps in finding games. Sony (creators of ps5) the same. Those are the common i think most people know about. If you are windows 10 user you can even check your nat type when going into settings>gaming>xbox services as its part of every windows 10 image. Xbox services refers to number of ports and its easiest to check whats ur nat type if opening needed ports on your router changes it there. Asus is into it as well considering they added "open nat" which is visible in router gui on the left side since few firmware releases not too long ago and is helping people by opening ports needed for each game .

 

[cptnoblivious]

Multiple NATs is not an issue. Never has been.

Many things maybe wrong with your connection, there maybe setup issues, there could be congestion getting to you, but from a purely technological perspective, having 2 properly setup / configured NATs on it's own doesn't cause problems. And NAT's aren't hard.

Look elsewhere for the root of your problem.

 

[KevTech]

You still dont get it. I want open nat to connect to every1 freely = easier to find games when you can join people that you cant join with strict nat that means game can choose the best server for you cuz of open nat and that means lower distance and lower ping at the same time.

If you want lower ping you need to get a better ISP if possible.

If not then I would give up online gaming as a wireless ISP (Is that what you still have?) is never going to be good for gaming no matter what you change on the router.

Look how long and how many threads of you trying to make things better but nothing works for very long as it is an ISP issue not a router issue.

 

[podkaracz]

If you want lower ping you need to get a better ISP if possible.

If not then I would give up online gaming as a wireless ISP (Is that what you still have?) is never going to be good for gaming no matter what you change on the router.

Look how long and how many threads of you trying to make things better but nothing works for very long as it is an ISP issue not a router issue.

I mean dont post if you cant read its considered spam and should get reported. I said opening ports helps and i want to make sure how to do it properly on asus device. Once my isp removes double nat then ill need that knowledge.

 

[thiggins]

@KevTech and @podkaracz No need to get personal. Back to your corners.