Need advice on how to choose home NAS/ storage/ backup solution.

[this]

Hi,

Total newbie here, looking for a storage/backup solution with good reliability/performance (of course).

I did read the "How to choose the right NAS" article and looked at the NAS Chart, but still need guidance for choosing the best gear/setup for my data. (Also curious - is the article outdated?)

Here's what I need to do:

Store music/media files where my partner and I can both access them for playback on our Mac computers.
Store and work on a large and growing library of photos (does not need to be shared) and some movies.
Store and work on original music files using music software (Logic Pro and others).
Have all the data backed up in a reliable secure way.

3TB is plenty of data for starters.

I’ve got a LaCie CloudBox NAS (3TB) and am currently using it to store everything, connected to our wireless router (Netgear n600) by ethernet and accessing it wirelessly from our Macs. I just changed to using an ethernet cable to connect to my iMac to improve performance (still not sure what the limits are with this performance wise).
I've found a few issues with this setup.
- File transfer/access can be slow (transferring large groups of files even crashed my iMac before I used the ethernet cable).
- Logic Pro (Mac music software) doesn't work well when files are on the NAS (it's recommended to use a connected external HD - not a NAS or internal HD - to work on music files in Logic).
- The LaCie Cloudbox doesn't have trash - when something is deleted from it, it's gone forever.
- Don’t have a real backup solution yet (aside from an aging firewire Iomega drive I'm using currently, and other externals).

So, I'm thinking I need to get a better solution for our storage/backup going forward.

One thing I considered is to continue to use the LaCie just for the shared music library/playback and get another HD (probably a firewire/thunderbolt external HD) for my photos and music files that I work on.

Of course I want fast performance and need compatibility with Mac OS. And the main thing is reliability, the data is really important to me of course.

I also need a backup solution.
Don't know much about the different types of HD protocols etc. I'm assuming if I use a NAS, I'll be using ethernet (as I am now) but don't know if there are different types/speeds of ethernet connections. If local I would be using Firewire/Thunderbolt or USB 3.0.

(The NAS Chart on this site was over my head - couldn't figure out how to select a benchmark...)

If I purchase a new NAS, the BYOD option sounds like the way to go for me, since it’s reliable and expandable.

So, I suppose I have a few questions in all:

Should I keep ALL my data on a single NAS (with regular backups)? ( I would then need to have an external firewire drive connected to my iMac, to work on music files, and then save them to the NAS.)

Or should I just use the NAS for shared files (mainly music files playback my partner and I listen to), and keep my photos and original music files (which I work on in Logic pro etc...) on a separate (USB or Firewire/Thunderbolt) HD (also with regular backups).

What do I need to know about file transfer speed? Are there different speeds of ethernet? How does this compare to firewire/Thunderbolt speeds?

Should I back up the data to another HD living at my house, or use some kind of cloud storage, or …? If I bought a multi-drive BYOD RAID NAS, do I still need to back it up elsewhere?

What about Mac compatibility? Is that hard to come by/ more expensive for a BYOD NAS?

OK, so many questions. I’m probably overthinking this, and I do feel in over my head, but really have a lot of data that’s really important to me which I need to be able to access and store reliably, so making good choices now is important. Not sure if the LaCie CloudBox was a good idea (see issues above) but might be able to continue to use it just for music playback.

Please let me know your thoughts or advice. Thanks in advance. Maybe I just need to learn more first, so any suggestions I can read up on would be appreciated. When I start looking at all the different options for storage, I find I don’t understand all the issues at play.

Tom

 

[stevech]

2+ years ago I chose a small home NAS to centralize data store away from PCs and to improve backups.

After turning every stone, trying on-line demos from the GOOD NAS vendors, it came to QNAP vs. Synology and a 2 bay NAS. Good enough for my projected needs. I chose the Synology DS212 at that time. I've been pleased and would buy the same brand again - due mostly to their feature set and no crashes/losses.

It's setup to backup most all directories/shares every day to a time backup of last 90 days of file versions to the 2nd drive in the NAS. I elected no not use RAID since this was a 2 bay.
And daily the NAS backs up key folders via USB3 to a large external that's out of sight.
And more frequently, VVIP folders to to an SD card plugged into the NAS.

On-line storage - silly, with such low uplink speeds we have from ISPs. I do put some photos up that I want to share.
I don't open my NAS for Internet remote access.


I feel that data loss is most likely due to hardware theft, human error (goofed up file, oops deleted file), power supply/electronics fault in NAS causing a corrupted file system, and lastly, drive failure.

 

[this]

Thanks for the useful info.

The Synology DS212 is BYOD right? How do you choose disks for it? Does one need to look at the specs of a BYOD NAS to find what drives to use in it?

Thanks again,

Tom

 

[stevech]

Thanks for the useful info.

The Synology DS212 is BYOD right? How do you choose disks for it? Does one need to look at the specs of a BYOD NAS to find what drives to use in it?

Thanks again,

Tom

Bring Your Own Disks. Yes.
Many/most of us select our own disks for the QNAP/Synology NASes. Shop around.
I just used two dissimilar drives - one I had, one I bought in a USB2 enclosure as it was much cheaper than a bare drive (really).

All NASes use USB for sharing. All decent ones use gigabit Ethernet.
USB3 is used to plug in backup drives.
Drives are all SATA - today they're all about the same speed.


Both are Seagate 7200RPM 2TB.
Esp. in my 2 bay, I don't use RAID. So it reallly matters little. Could even be different sizes.
I tend to buy Western Digital, sometimes Seagate. Not keen on others.
Never buy a refurb.

 

[thiggins]

First, for easy total performance comparison, use the NAS Ranker.

It sounds like your computers use wireless connection. This will limit performance well below what even inexpensive entry-level NASes can provide today. You need to use Gigabit Ethernet to take full advantage of NAS performance.

If you use Gigabit Ethernet, you might find that performance is fast enough to avoid having to use a local attached drive. Or, transfer the work file to your machine from the NAS, then back to NAS when you are done.

Why not use Time Machine for backup? It is built in and many NASes support it.

Your needs are very simple, basically central storage, which all NASes can provide. Backup is mostly dependent on the application used on your client machines. That is why I suggest Time Machine since you are using Macs.

QNAPs and Synologies have many features you don't need and can be comparatively expensive. Something like a WD MyCloud could save you some money.

If you go with a BYOD NAS, check the manufacturers recommended drive list. In most cases you will find WD Red drives are supported. They provide a good combination of price, performance and power consumption.

 

[stevech]

First, for easy total performance comparison, use the NAS Ranker.
.

I urge users to take into account what their use of the NAS will be and not get myopic on performance over features. Not saying you need to accept very sub-par performance. But the big speeds are rare in the real world due to file system overhead and use of many small sized files versus an impressive rate with one gigabyte file.

 

[thiggins]

I urge users to take into account what their use of the NAS will be and not get myopic on performance over features. Not saying you need to accept very sub-par performance. But the big speeds are rare in the real world due to file system overhead and use of many small sized files versus an impressive rate with one gigabyte file.

The NAS Ranker incorporates both large and small file transfer performance into the ranking.

 

[stevech]

The NAS Ranker incorporates both large and small file transfer performance into the ranking.

Yes, but the point is that the goodness of a NAS is as much in what features it has beyond file moving, e.g., DLNA, photo browsers, video archiving, backup tools, time backup/versioning, user account management, system software updates for free, than merely speed of file transfers. These, versus a focus on just file transfers. That's could be said to be choosing a car based solely on the zero to 60mph spec.

 

[this]

Thanks for your replies. I'm learning quite a bit, honing in on what we need here...

Thiggins raised the question of the less-expensive option of using a WD MyCloud. I think a MyCloud is probably comparable to the 3TB LaCie CloudBox we're already using (correct?). We could just keep using that (though there were a few minor problems listed in my first post - these could be worked around esp. by using gb ethernet instead of wireless when possible), with a solid backup solution. Might be sufficient for our modest needs (I would probably also use an external HD Thunderbolt to my iMac for working on music files in Logic Pro, then save to the CloudBox). I was thinking of a 2-or-more drive NAS as a robust secure solution going forward, but maybe it's overkill for us at this time.

Stevech listed some NAS features beyond file transfer speed, so I ought to evaluate these features and compare to the CloudBox we're using, and consider whether they are important to us. The most important thing to me is having a robust secure storage/backup system going forward, so we won't lost data if a drive fails. (If we're going to outgrow the CloudBox in a couple years, it might be better to go ahead and get a 2-or-more drive NAS now, and get used to using it).

Thiggins also suggested using Time Machine for backup. Do you know what the pros and cons are to using a NAS based backup software or using Time Machine?

Thanks both of you, I'm learning a lot here.

 

[thiggins]

Yes, but the point is that the goodness of a NAS is as much in what features it has beyond file moving, e.g., DLNA, photo browsers, video archiving, backup tools, time backup/versioning, user account management, system software updates for free, than merely speed of file transfers. These, versus a focus on just file transfers. That's could be said to be choosing a car based solely on the zero to 60mph spec.

My reply about the NAS Ranker was in response to your point about large and small file performance that was quoted in my original reply, Steve.

 

[thiggins]

The LaCie Cloudbox isn't really a NAS. As our review noted, it's more of an Ethernet-connected (and backed up) disk.

The WD MyCloud is a true NAS that also has easy to use remote access features. It comes in single, dual-bay and four-bay configurations. They aren't the fastest NASes around, however.

I suggested Time Machine because it is built into MacOS and supports versioning (multiple backup versions). The NAS is just the data holder. The backup application does the work. Most backup applications that come bundled with NASes are very simple. But if they meet your needs, great!

Most any NAS can meet your needs, but you'll need to use a Gigabit Ethernet connection to take full advantage of the performance for even the slowest NAS today. If you are using primarily wireless connections between clients and NAS, NAS performance doesn't matter. The wireless connection will be the limiting factor.

If you want simplicity and robustness and have modest storage needs, a two-bay NAS configured in RAID1 is a good solution. But keep in mind that any file that you don't want to use should be stored on multiple devices.

 

[stevech]

...Most backup applications that come bundled with NASes are very simple.

Would you say that about the NASes with time backup of the last x months of versions of files? Incrementals. Time scheduled. email confirms/errors, etc. Inter-system backups via iSCSI and rSync?
One might take the comment above too literally.

May be true for LaCie, WD, Seagate, Buffalo, and the other mass market NAS wannabes as compared to the companies that focus on NAS products.

 

[thiggins]

Would you say that about the NASes with time backup of the last x months of versions of files? Incrementals. Time scheduled. email confirms/errors, etc. Inter-system backups via iSCSI and rSync?
One might take the comment above too literally.

May be true for LaCie, WD, Seagate, Buffalo, and the other mass market NAS wannabes as compared to the companies that focus on NAS products.

What bundled NAS backup application does all that?

 

[this]

The LaCie Cloudbox isn't really a NAS. As our review noted, it's more of an Ethernet-connected (and backed up) disk.

The WD MyCloud is a true NAS that also has easy to use remote access features. It comes in single, dual-bay and four-bay configurations. They aren't the fastest NASes around, however.

I suggested Time Machine because it is built into MacOS and supports versioning (multiple backup versions). The NAS is just the data holder. The backup application does the work. Most backup applications that come bundled with NASes are very simple. But if they meet your needs, great!

Most any NAS can meet your needs, but you'll need to use a Gigabit Ethernet connection to take full advantage of the performance for even the slowest NAS today. If you are using primarily wireless connections between clients and NAS, NAS performance doesn't matter. The wireless connection will be the limiting factor.

If you want simplicity and robustness and have modest storage needs, a two-bay NAS configured in RAID1 is a good solution. But keep in mind that any file that you don't want to use should be stored on multiple devices.

Thanks. Yeah, I had the sense that the Cloudbox was not up to the level of a NAS, but made the (wrong) assumption that the WD myCloud was a similar class of drive.

When I look at the NAS Ranker, I see a "drive class" option when doing a search filter. What do I need to know about the different drive classes (SoC-1, Soc-2. Atom-1, Atom-2, uP-2, uP-4)?

I was under the impression Time Machine was just for backing up a Mac internal drive. Can I back up a NAS with it?

I think there are many features to many NAS's which are more than I need, so I'll be looking for something fairly simple, fast & reliable first and foremost.

Thanks again!

Tom

 

[stevech]

Thanks. Yeah, I had the sense that the Cloudbox was not up to the level of a NAS, but made the (wrong) assumption that the WD myCloud was a similar class of drive.

When I look at the NAS Ranker, I see a "drive class" option when doing a search filter. What do I need to know about the different drive classes (SoC-1, Soc-2. Atom-1, Atom-2, uP-2, uP-4)?

I was under the impression Time Machine was just for backing up a Mac internal drive. Can I back up a NAS with it?

I think there are many features to many NAS's which are more than I need, so I'll be looking for something fairly simple, fast & reliable first and foremost.

Thanks again!

Tom

Synology and probably QNAP have Time Backup, under various names. In my synology I have this tool set to keep the last 90 days of versions of all files in key folders that I designated. In those folders on the NAS are files from PCs, handhelds, and all sorts of places.
Saved my buns several times due to my errors.

Opinion: choose QNAP or Synology.

 

[this]

Synology and probably QNAP have Time Backup, under various names. In my synology I have this tool set to keep the last 90 days of versions of all files in key folders that I designated. In those folders on the NAS are files from PCs, handhelds, and all sorts of places.
Saved my buns several times due to my errors.

Opinion: choose QNAP or Synology.

Thanks for the suggestion Steve, I appreciate it. I'll be looking into those two.

thiggins: Regarding Time Machine, I asked the question to Apple support and they say Apple doesn't support Time Machine doing backups from a NAS. So I guess I'll be using the Time Backup on the NAS.

Thanks

Tom

 

[thiggins]

NASes are classed by processor type. This allows optional comparison among products that have similar processor types. Processor performance is a key determinant of NAS performance.

Time Machine is for backup of MacOS clients only. Backing up the NAS depends on features built into the NAS OS.

 

[thiggins]

Synology and probably QNAP have Time Backup, under various names. In my synology I have this tool set to keep the last 90 days of versions of all files in key folders that I designated. In those folders on the NAS are files from PCs, handhelds, and all sorts of places.
Saved my buns several times due to my errors.

Opinion: choose QNAP or Synology.

That sounds like file versioning. I agree it is useful to allow recovery of accidentally deleted or corrupted files.

As an option, NETGEAR NASes support unlimited volume snapshots, as well as Time Machine and very flexible backup features both to and from clients and other NASes.

 

[stevech]

That sounds like file versioning. I agree it is useful to allow recovery of accidentally deleted or corrupted files.

As an option, NETGEAR NASes support unlimited volume snapshots, as well as Time Machine and very flexible backup features both to and from clients and other NASes.

Having called Netgear's "Professional Product" customer support, and been subjected to the worse that Bangalore can offer, I take a pass on Netgear pro products except for switches which just work.

 

[this]

I've had some issues with Netgear's support myself! I can relate to that one.

As I'm still researching, and from your info, I'm seeing a few makers among the pack I'm considering:
Synology
Buffalo
QNAP
Western Digital

Any other makers I should consider? Any pro's and con's about any of these ones? Thanks