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Featured Netgear Adds Wi-Fi 6 Mesh System And AC3000 Mesh Extender To Orbi Line

Discussion in 'NETGEAR AX Wireless' started by Julio Urquidi, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. Julio Urquidi

    Julio Urquidi News Editor

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    netgear-rbk852.jpg
    NETGEAR today announced availability of the Wi-Fi 6 version of its Orbi mesh Wi-Fi system that was announced at CES 2019 in January.

    The Orbi Wi-Fi 6 Wi-Fi tri-band Wi-Fi system (RBK852) consists of two AX6000 tri-band nodes, each powered by a 2.2 GHz quad core processor. Aside from using a four-stream 1.2 Gbps 2.4 GHz band and a four-stream 2.4 Gbps 5 GHz band for client connections, the RBK852 includes a third four-stream 2.4 Gbps band as a dedicated backhaul, providing fast throughput between the kit’s two nodes.

    Other interfaces on the RBK852 include one 2.5 Gbps WAN Port and four Gbps LAN ports.

    Additional listed features include an optional wall mount (sold separately) and VLAN-based guest network separation.

    netgear-outdoor-orbi-lifestyle.jpg
    The second announced Orbi product is an AC3000 tri-band Wi-Fi extender and satellite (RB50Y). Designed for the outdoors and housed in an IP56 compliant enclosure, the RB50Y extends a wireless mesh network’s range and feature set using a two stream 400 Mbps 2.4 GHz band, a two stream 866 Mbps 5 GHz band, and a dedicated third 1.733 Gbps 5 GHz band also used exclusively for backhaul operations.

    The wall-mountable (included) RB50Y is powered by a quad-core processor and includes features such as implicit and explicit beamforming, security using 802.11i and 128-bit AES encryption with PSK, and extended guest Wi-Fi functions when used in Orbi Satellite mode. Lastly, you can use up to three RB50Y satellites with Netgear Orbi routers.

    The Netgear Orbi WiFi 6 System (RBK852) will be available in October and is priced at $699.99, while the Orbi AC3000 Outdoor Wi-Fi Mesh Extender/Add-On Satellite is available now and priced at $349.99.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
    sd70mac likes this.
  2. Internet Man

    Internet Man Senior Member

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    The Tech Specs section of the product page seems to have an error under the AX6000 Tri-Band WiFi sections:

    They swapped 1200Mbps of the 2.4GHz link with the 2400Mbps of the 5GHz wireless backhaul. There is no explanation for the "†" symbol on the page.
    *Update* It looks like they tried to correct these speeds but still have it wrong both places and now they have different speeds listed for the router and satellite.

    Also, "Works with Amazon Alex"

    It's mind-boggling how many errors appear on Netgear's product pages.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
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  3. ricky124

    ricky124 Occasional Visitor

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    Going for the RB50Y when I own a home :)
     
    sd70mac likes this.
  4. pete y testing

    pete y testing Very Senior Member

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    greetings all

    the elephant in the room is they are not using full ax speed for backhaul or 5 gig

    full ax is 4804Mbps sync rate

    netgear are using 2400 they are ether only using 80mhz or only 3 streams

    i also see no reason to have the backhaul the same speed the front side 5 gig client wifi

    yes prob no 5 gig client device will ever be 4804Mbps so 2400Mbps prob makes sense but why skimp on the backhaul

    so unlike the rbk50 and its 1733M backhaul and 866M 5 gig front side the ax6000 seems some how less because of its glaring short fall
     
  5. thiggins

    thiggins Mr. Easy Staff Member

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    Unless they have changed Orbi architecture, the backhaul is 4 stream and client connect is 2 stream.

    So whether they are using 160 MHz channels or not, backhaul B/W is still 2x fronthaul.

    I am checking with NETGEAR to clarify.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  6. thiggins

    thiggins Mr. Easy Staff Member

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    NETGEAR clarified the radio capability as follows:

    2.4 GHz client connect: 4 stream 20/40 MHz B/W (1.2 Gbps max link rate)
    5 GHz client connect: 4 stream, 20/40/80 MHz B/W (2.4 Gbps max link rate)
    5 GHz backhaul: 4 stream, 20/40/80 MHz B/W (2.4 Gbps max link rate)

    @pete y testing , you are correct that 5 GHz fronthaul and backhaul bandwidth is the same.
     
  7. avtella

    avtella Very Senior Member

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    QCA chipsets as far as I know use half the streams in HT160 when compared to HT80 so it was expected.

    A while back there was talk that the 5Ghz portion of QCAs latest WiFi chipset with 8 5Ghz ax streams could be divided into two 4x4 bands or used as a single 8x8 band but in HT160 mode it would still use half the streams regardless of mode.

    I think the old Orbi used the IPQ4019’s 2x2 WiFi chipset for the front end and a separate QCA9984 specifically for the backhaul. Either way still not a big loss with just a 80Mhz 4x4 bckhaul.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
  8. pete y testing

    pete y testing Very Senior Member

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    not sure what you mean here

    the architecture of the RBK50 allowed multiple sats to connect and have full backhaul sync and speeds for the front end clients connected to each sat or node without congestion

    with the same client speed as backhaul the backhaul will be saturated easily with one or a few clients
     
  9. avtella

    avtella Very Senior Member

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    With the new chipset allowing the 8 5Ghz streams to be split into two bands it was probably seen as cost effective and unnecessary to have an additional chipset for the backhaul like in the older unit. They must have figured in real world use it wouldn’t have much of an impact for the vast majority of users. I personally don’t really see much of a congestion issue in real world use unless you’re doing lots of large simultaneous LAN transfers between clients on various satellites or something of the sorts. But yeah it would have been nice if they had an additional chip for the backhaul.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  10. DrA

    DrA Occasional Visitor

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    I am a noob in mesh WiFi networking. I have a 1 Gig internet which is fine only wired. For more than a year I am suffering from ATT mesh system with BGW 200 router with 4 AirTies 4920 mesh extenders. To be fair I have more than 30 wireless devices and probably ATT 's Arris BGW 200 is not able to handle it . My hope is this new Netgear RBK852 system in bridge mode after disabling ATT router's wireless .
    Is one AX6000 router and one AX6000 satellite enough for 7000 sq ft 3 story home? I am sure I need a RB50Y for outdoor equipment 65 feet away from the house but do I need an extra AX6000 satellite?
    If yes why a single AX6000 satellite is not available for sale? Can I use another RB50Y on the first floor? I know this not going to be cheap but it will be "future proof" for few years with Wi-Fi 6 right? I am planning to connect the main node to the AX6000 satellite node and extenders connected wired to the AX6000 satellite.
    Why people worry about this new Wi-Fi 6 system with mesh technology? Nighthawk Wi-Fi 6 is working fine separately and the latest Orbi mesh systems are good so far. Just combine the two together. Easy for me to say. I hope there will be no major issues in November.
     
  11. avtella

    avtella Very Senior Member

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    DrA if you wan’t proper AX with all features working I’d wait till 2nd gen products. Even though Qualcomm for example advertised everything being supported on current gen chipsets, UL MIMO and UL OFDMA for example haven’t been officially enabled in any current products. Also there are still issues with stability in certain situations in both the QCA and Broadcom based AX products. Firmware still needs a little work on current gen AX routers. Unless you are an enthusiast and don’t mind being effectively beta tester and dealing with occasional issues I’d wait at least 6 months before buying new consumer networking gear if stability and reliability is of great importance and by then prices will also hopefully have fallen.

    As for the Satellite question:
    How many satellites you need depends also on your home layout and construction materials. My home for example is mostly wood/drywall interior and with the router (Previously an R7800) on the top floor I could still get away with excellent speeds 2 floors down in my (2600 Sqft) home. On the other hand a friend with more concrete partitions and granite flooring gets significantly lower speeds and coverage just one floor below the (R7800) router’s location and even in some rooms on the same floor.

    You could try and return a 2 unit system first to see if it’s good enough. You may be better off with a 3 unit mesh system with your coverage requirements.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
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  12. pete y testing

    pete y testing Very Senior Member

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    what i can tell you about coverage comes from a different AX mesh system you will see in my signature

    what i can tell you is the ax backhaul works far further apart than with AC mesh units , whether this is the same with the netgear ax orbi may be a different matter as i think the splitting of the 5 gig chipset may effect the orbi's performance coverage wise between the nodes as compared to what i have tested so far

    just as an example

    rbk50 with 2 sats setup like this


    sat-------router ----------sat

    with orbi router in the middle of the house and a sat at each end covers my house

    with the ax unit im testing i have the main unit at one end of the house and the node at the other and get just as good a client coverage ( that being said the ax unit im testing is fully 160mhz 4804M ax backhaul)

    so all i can say that full ax 4804M backhaul works far better than AC mesh 1733M backhaul coverage wise between nodes

    how this half baked orbi fairs is anyone's guess till we get them and test , im going to guess slightly better than the orbi AC units but not as good as the ax unit im testing with full ax backhaul

    which orbi system ? the ax isnt out yet
     
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  13. DrA

    DrA Occasional Visitor

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    Thank you for the advice. Attached is my home layout. It is wood construction with no cement floors but has many walls.
    Internet fiber comes through from the outside of a 3rd floor bedroom which is in the furthest corner possible from where we normally hang out most of the time. I will try to avoid installing the main node there in the corner like in the layout picture. Instead only ONT and ATT disabled router (now modem) will stay there and I will relocate the main node in the center of the 3rd floor with preinstalled CAT 6.
    That way I can put the satellite node in the center of the second or first floor wired. I may need one more Orbi Outdoor WiFi Range Extender (RBS50Y) to add another 2,500 sq ft coverage inside if there are any dead spots left. will that work? Is it a WiFi 6 extender? does it matter if it is not? I am willing to learn.
     

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  14. DrA

    DrA Occasional Visitor

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    I was generally referring to previous Netgear non ax successful orbi mesh systems.

    Thank you. I will try sat-------router ----------sat configuration but there is no second AX6000 sat available for purchase. Can I use RBS50Y extender instead? I have willingness to learn.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  15. avtella

    avtella Very Senior Member

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    I highly doubt you’d be saturating even the 2.4 Gbps link rate, even with two satellites. You are limited by your WAN connection anyway unless you have a 2 Gbps ISP connection, available in few places at best and very expensive. Only way I imagine you are realistically going to run into any major congestion issue is through simultaneous LAN transfers or the likes as I said before where the 4.8 Gbps link rate would definitely help. I can’t imagine coverage being much greater with HT160, however throughput yes but I’d expect the signal edge and performance at signal edge to be somewhat similar at least that’s my experience with routers I’ve used (R7800/RAX80/RAX120) in conjunction with my laptops with Intel AX200 and Intel 9260ac WiFi cards which support HT160.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
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  16. DrA

    DrA Occasional Visitor

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    Thank you for all the information in above posts.
    Noob question: will number of wired connected devices affect the performance of a system like this? Me and my kids use wired 8 DirecTV and AV receivers, 2 Apple TVs, an Xbox, a Raspberry Pi and 3 smart TVs I forgot to add to my previous home layout.
    No wonder my ATT router can't handle this much traffic anymore. I have 1 Gbps service but the problem maybe was number of devices? When Netgear says that this new system will support "From 1 to 100 devices for today and tomorrow." is it for all devices combined or it can support 100 wireless devices plus wired devices too?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019
  17. pete y testing

    pete y testing Very Senior Member

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    it should work but its not wifi 6 , its the same standard as the rbk50 series but that should be fine if you really dont need wifi6 in that area

    advertising bull crap

    the dhcp server can support 252 clients , however the wifi will struggle with with more than say 30 clients per node
     
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  18. DrA

    DrA Occasional Visitor

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    Thank you for providing concrete numbers. So this 2 node system will support approximately 60 wifi devices like my wemo and lutron switches, cameras, smart phones and TVs? They keep dropping now with my ATT (Aris) BGW 200. Did you test multiple WiFi devices with asus rt-ax92u? What is the limit?
     
  19. coxhaus

    coxhaus Part of the Furniture

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    So to get 1.2Gbps max link rate how many channels do you need on 2.4GHz?
     
  20. pete y testing

    pete y testing Very Senior Member

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    i dont have that many clients sorry to test