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Orbi - Do wifi devices switch to another satellite IF signal stays strong?

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njweb

Senior Member
Dilemma
I am debating whether to leave my Orbi sealed and return it or give it a shot:

Especially after reading this user comment on an Orbi article:
xxxx, Rosemount, Minnesota said:
Quote from the above user I have the Google mesh system and scratching my head about the effectiveness. Most my devices (Apple) won't automatically switch between satellite units because they simply don't drop to low enough signal to make the move. (you'd need a monster house for this and major dead spots which is the whole point of these in the first place) This means my devices pretty much use the device they initially connected with. This might be good for stationary devices, but most of what I'm concerned about are iPads, iPhones, Macbooks etc.

To my knowledge you can't tune devices to react any differently so you must turn wifi on and off as you move about the house to take advantage.

Other than that the Google units haven't required rebooting every 5-6 days like my Airport used too so there is that.

I'm wondering if I'd been better off buying a high powered more advanced single router with lots of antennas... it feels like the mesh system is really only good if someone has stationary devices that can't plug into wall ethernet.

(end quote by the above user - NOT me)

Wifi coverage test with Asus RT-AC5300

I just ran speedtests throughout my house (just under 3100 SF without the finished basement).
Even on my deck (other side of house from my Asus RT-AC5300), I get close to full speed (although wife's iPhone and my Galaxy Note get very different speeds in a couple of cases).

In 6 of 9 locations tested I get well over 200 Mbps or at a minimum close to 200 Mbps. In one of the other 3 locations (my home office where wife's iPhone will not be used), the iPhone falters (same room as router) whereas the Note 4 gets 198.5 Mbps (slower than many other distant rooms; maybe the signal is almost too strong or there is interference).
So in short, I have just 2 weaker spots in the entire house - one with 82 Mbps down with both phones and one where they got 88 Mbps down and 78 Mbps down respectively.

Speed Tier
I am on a 200 Mbps down / 12 Mbps up plan from Comcast.
I am using a 2 year old Arris SB6141 (waiting for my SB8200 D3.1 modem to arrive), but even with the SB6141 I get as much as 239 Mbps in some spots.
My Tivos (7 in all) are all connected via MoCA so wifi coverage is not an issue for them,
Even though my Asus is in one corner of the house (on mail level), my house has a wide open tall center hall that no doubt is the main reason the Asus is able to cover so much area all itself (less walls).

So with the background info on the speeds I am getting with my Asus and, more importantly, that user's comment I am rethinking whether to even try the Orbi. I don't have any true dead spots.

Does anyone know how low the signal needs to be for a wifi client (mobile phone etc.) to switch from one Orbi unit to another?
Is it the Orbi that controls the switching of devices as I move from room to room, or is that controlled by the client?

Since we have no true 'dead' spots in the house, I wonder whether the Orbi makes sense. But being somewhat of a geek when it comes to tech, part of me likes to get maximum speed. :)
Then again, if I do keep the Orbi (still sealed and untested), I might leave the Asus hooked up to do the routing and security functions and use the Orbi system in AP mode, which means I will have shelled out $380 + tax for the Asus RT-Ac5300 and another$450 + tax for the Orbi. Maybe overkill...

But even 4K streaming on Netflix requires 'only' about 25 Mbps. Not to mention they have limited 4K content and we only have one 4K TV out of 7 sets (and even then, our bed is too far away to notice the difference between 4K and 1080P).
I also considered the Veloop from Linksys ,but it has some mixed reviews and Dong Ngo from cNet claims a 2 unit Orbi outperforms the 3 unit Veloop (I have the 3 pack $450 + tax from Costco). Others seem to have mixed experiences between the two.

Decisions, decisions, which ultimately only I can make.
 
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So with the background info on the speeds I am getting with my Asus and, more importantly, that user's comment I am rethinking whether to even try the Orbi. I don't have any true dead spots.


then the question is why did you get the orbi in the first place as it seems the 5300 is doing fine for you and spending yet even more money prob wont solve a lot

Then again, if I do keep the Orbi (still sealed and untested), I might leave the Asus hooked up to do the routing and security functions and use the Orbi system in AP mode, which means I will have shelled out $380 + tax for the Asus RT-Ac5300 and another$450 + tax for the Orbi. Maybe

maybe someone ( minister of finance ) should take your credit card of you :) as it seems you purchase on a whim before then thinking about the over spend :)

yes the best solution would be to use the very expensive 5300 as a router only and the orbi in ap mode and thats almost exactly what i do but i get the stuff for free , if i had to pay for it im sure i wouldnt be shelling out hard earned just to have the very best of everything , you cant beat the asus firmware and gui but keep in mind asus is bringing out the hivespot that might give the best of the firmware and the wifi but thats yet to be seen

the simple fact is your current router is giving you about as good as it you can and would expect , going up to the orbi may resolve a small coverage issue but at a huge price , so its ether return the orbi or sell the 5300 or wait for another solution , in your case i think the 5300 is doing fine but its your money

forgot to add i have a mixture here of andriod / apple and windows devices and they all roam fine with the orbi 3 pack here , what i do think is some ppl are using orbi in quite small areas and over lapping the wifi too much as this will cause the clients to stick , here i have a long house thats approx 25 meters from one end to the other with the orbi router in the middle and a sat at each end
 
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then the question is why did you get the orbi in the first place as it seems the 5300 is doing fine for you and spending yet even more money prob wont solve a lot



maybe someone ( minister of finance ) should take your credit card of you :) as it seems you purchase on a whim before then thinking about the over spend :)

yes the best solution would be to use the very expensive 5300 as a router only and the orbi in ap mode and thats almost exactly what i do but i get the stuff for free , if i had to pay for it im sure i wouldnt be shelling out hard earned just to have the very best of everything , you cant beat the asus firmware and gui but keep in mind asus is bringing out the hivespot that might give the best of the firmware and the wifi but thats yet to be seen

the simple fact is your current router is giving you about as good as it you can and would expect , going up to the orbi may resolve a small coverage issue but at a huge price , so its ether return the orbi or sell the 5300 or wait for another solution , in your case i think the 5300 is doing fine but its your money


Thanks a lot for the feedback Pete.
As you noticed, I mostly answered my own questions above, but wanted some feedback from others.

To explain why I bought the Orbi in the first place (aside from the tech geek in me who like to try the newest gadgets, although with cell phones and computers I am not as picky as wifi gear and do not need the very latest every year):
1. I bought the Orbi before I had retested all locations in my house (I was at Costco and I read great things about Orbi).
2. I also knew I could easily return it to Costco if it did not help or meet any special needs.
3. I, like most here in the US, am paying a lot for Comcast's services (that is even though I use my Ooma Telo for home phone VoIP service, own my own cable modem to save on rental fees and use 7 TiVo units for our 7 TVs to save on Comcast's box rental fees, as well as to get TiVo's extra benefits - more DVR storage space, and access to On Demand and TiVoDVR on all 7 TVs).
The point being I wanted to get the speeds I am paying for (200 Mbps down). We are paying a fair amount for high speed internet monthly.
Deciding which wifi speeds meet our needs is the trickiest thing to consider since in many situations on any ONE device you do not need more than 25 Mbps for streaming (and that is only if streaming 4K content) and where one has e.g. (just examples) 50 Mbps, 100 Mbps or 200 Mbps download speeds, it probably won't provide a dramatic difference for web browsing regardless (correct me if I am wrong).
4. I also originally intended to sell my Asus RT-AC5300 if I decided to keep the Orbi 3 pack; it was only later that I noticed the Orbi's routing and security feature etc., might leave a bit to be desired.

I may wait for a while and see what develops and if our needs change.
Hivespot sounds interesting, especially since it includes the following (which is a big reason I would keep my AC5300 which comes with AiProtection if I were to stick with Orbi):
It includes AiProtection, a Trend Micro-based security suite designed to block and neutralize online threats.
Wondering how Hivespot will do coveragewise (smaller units such as Eero and Luma have not done as well as Orbi). Not sure of the antenna and amplifier capability.

For now I am considering returning the Orbi and simply waiting...
 
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The point being I wanted to get the speeds I am paying a fair amount for monthly (this is the trickiest thing to consider since in many situations on any ONE device you do not need more than 25 Mbps

and that is really the key , i think the only device in my house that even needs or uses my 100/40M speed here to its max is my torrent box which is my synology nas , everything else just doesnt or cant use that speed

it was only later that I noticed the Orbi's routing and security feature etc., might leave a bit to be desired.

the orbi router features are ok but if your used to the asus gui and feature set you will be a bit disappointed , at least the orbi now has guest wifi which works well in router mode but cant be isolated in ap mode

Wondering how Hivespot will do coveragewise (smaller units such as Eero and Luma have not done as well as Orbi). Not sure of the antenna and amplifier capability.

its prob going to need a 3 pack to cover the same as the orbi router and sat but im only guessing atm and will be able to tell you more when i get the hivespot when it comes out

For now I am considering returning the Orbi and simply waiting...

to be honest thats what i would do and recommend , 2017 is the year of the mesh and distributed wireless systems ( important difference as the orbi isnt a mesh device ) and as the dust settles and the firmware matures i think you will see the cream rise and the crud fall away , at this stage the orbi is still seen as the best overall whole home wifi solution if it remains that at the end of this year is anyone's guess , maybe hide the credit card till then :)
 
and that is really the key , i think the only device in my house that even needs or uses my 100/40M speed here to its max is my torrent box which is my synology nas , everything else just doesnt or cant use that speed



the orbi router features are ok but if your used to the asus gui and feature set you will be a bit disappointed , at least the orbi now has guest wifi which works well in router mode but cant be isolated in ap mode



its prob going to need a 3 pack to cover the same as the orbi router and sat but im only guessing atm and will be able to tell you more when i get the hivespot when it comes out



to be honest thats what i would do and recommend , 2017 is the year of the mesh and distributed wireless systems ( important difference as the orbi isnt a mesh device ) and as the dust settles and the firmware matures i think you will see the cream rise and the crud fall away , at this stage the orbi is still seen as the best overall whole home wifi solution if it remains that at the end of this year is anyone's guess , maybe hide the credit card till then :)


Yes, I think I am probably better off waiting at this point, given my needs (no huge rush since no true dead spots - I am getting the speeds any single device needs, even in the worst locations), as well as the fact that there will be additional interesting new products released this year.
The Asus RT-AC5300 has also been rock solid from a wifi connectivity point of view, once Smart Connect is turned off. I am surprised to see how many people have had bad luck with the RT-AC5300 in fact, judging by online reviews. I am very pleased with mine
I have also read about mobile phone wifi disconnection issues with Orbi (on the Netgear forums) even with the latest firmware.

PS: When I mentioned security features in my last post, I meant the built-in TrendMicro AiProtection (which I had mentioned earlier in the thread).

Edit- I have made my mind up and am definitely returning the Orbi in a few minutes. I figure I can see what else comes out in the next quarter (e.g. HiveSpot) or the quarter after. In the event nothing comes out in the next several months that can compete with the Orbi and there is nothing new on the horizon at THAT point, then I can always reconsider the Orbi which may even be lower in price by then (hard to tell since Costco has the $450 special on the 3 pack Orbi - main router + 2 satellites)
 
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The Asus RT-AC5300 has also been rock solid from a wifi connectivity point of view, once Smart Connect is turned off.

i have a bit of a love / hate relationship with the 5300 but for the most part its fine i do however prefer the 88u

I have also read about mobile phone wifi disconnection issues with Orbi (on the Netgear forums) even with the latest firmware.

yer bit of a weird one , some have zero issues and others have heaps and i have no idea why , its mainly apple users and to be honest its more an issue with apple not conforming to normal wifi ways and thats been an issue across the board and for quite a long time specifically having to force wifi to 20mhz so apple devices would be happy etc

if you want my best guess as to what the future holds my crystal ball tells me that a small wifi mesh transmission units in every room and having 60ghz as standard will be what we will see and the big ugly routers we are seeing today will be moved side ways into the dedicated gamer market , aesthetics will play a much greater roll in future designs
 
i have a bit of a love / hate relationship with the 5300 but for the most part its fine i do however prefer the 88u



yer bit of a weird one , some have zero issues and others have heaps and i have no idea why , its mainly apple users and to be honest its more an issue with apple not conforming to normal wifi ways and thats been an issue across the board and for quite a long time specifically having to force wifi to 20mhz so apple devices would be happy etc

if you want my best guess as to what the future holds my crystal ball tells me that a small wifi mesh transmission units in every room and having 60ghz as standard will be what we will see and the big ugly routers we are seeing today will be moved side ways into the dedicated gamer market , aesthetics will play a much greater roll in future designs

Yes, it seemed to be mostly iPhone users are impacted by the Orbi disconnects if I recall correctly (although there may have been an Android user or two as well).
The future (near term future that is) of wifi should be interesting and whole home wifi is definitely the direction based on recent trends. That being said, I think there will always be a market for BHRs (like the Asus RT-Ac5300, Linksys EA9500 and Netgear X8 / X10 etc.), especially for smaller homes (or large homes like ours where coverage is still great thanks most likely due to an open floor plan) and / or for gamers who like the control options and built-in acceleration support etc.

I will be on the lookout for Hivespot and whatever else is on the horizon. For now I am excited to get my SB8200 D3.1 modem shortly since my SB6141 only has 8 downstream channels and my area supports 16 (confirmed when I recently tried out the CM1000).
 
Most my devices (Apple) won't automatically switch between satellite units because they simply don't drop to low enough signal to make the move. (you'd need a monster house for this and major dead spots which is the whole point of these in the first place) This means my devices pretty much use the device they initially connected with. This might be good for stationary devices, but most of what I'm concerned about are iPads, iPhones, Macbooks

Nodes are too close together - apple devices generally tend to start looking for things at a given RSSI - idle, around -68 dB, in traffic, around -60...

Same goes with many other clients as well...
 
Forgot to ask, what specifically do you like more about the 88U vs the RT-Ac5300?
Just curious

well the 88u doesnt look like a spider lol , its got more ports and it just seems to work a bit better here when compared to the 5300 , not convinced there isnt some near field interference going on between the two 5 gig bands , i have also had some weird things go down with the 5300 that i couldnt put my finger on the cause whereas the 88u has just worked and never bothered me , besides who really needs 2 x 5 gig unless you have many many 5 gig clients , reality is once you go down the road of distributed wifi and or mesh wifi you already have the ability to load balance the clients and makes tri band routers obsolete

pete
 
Speed Tier
I am on a 200 Mbps down / 12 Mbps up plan from Comcast.
I am using a 2 year old Arris SB6141 (waiting for my SB8200 D3.1 modem to arrive), but even with the SB6141 I get as much as 239 Mbps in some spots.

The SB6141 will be just fine here -- watch out for the Puma6 devices - they've been a bit problematic...

At your speed tier - the 6141 is good enough.
 
Nodes are too close together - apple devices generally tend to start looking for things at a given RSSI - idle, around -68 dB, in traffic, around -60...

Same goes with many other clients as well...

Thanks for the useful info on the levels at which they start to look for a better connection point,
 
The SB6141 will be just fine here -- watch out for the Puma6 devices - they've been a bit problematic...

At your speed tier - the 6141 is good enough.

Thanks. Yes, I have been reading tons about Puma 6 'latency' issue for the last month on dslreports, but hopefully your warning will help others here on SNB.

The SB6141 has exceeded my expectations, most of the time. Will be posting my SB8200 experience on dslreports when I receive it.
 
Thanks. Yes, I have been reading tons about Puma 6 'latency' issue for the last month on dslreports, but hopefully your warning will help others here on SNB.

The SB6141 has exceeded my expectations, most of the time. Will be posting my SB8200 experience on dslreports when I receive it.

The mob has taken over the Puma6 thread there, so that's a mess in, and of, itself... and that's a no-win situation, even though parties involved are working the issues (Intel, Arris, CableCo's) to sort it.

SB6183 is a very nice modem - use that one myself after my 6141 took a major power hit...
 
You know, I've been using the Orbi for a while now. Also have an Android phone and tablet, and 2 iPhones and 2 iPads. No disconnects on current firmware. None. So I guess that it is true that some people have problems and some don't. For me, the Orbi just keeps on working, giving me great wireless throughout my house. More so than any single router that I've had...even though the R7800 doesn't have dead spots, the signal strength drops off in my living room where the Orbi is full strength. Of course, that's where the satellite is *smile*.

Also, my Apple devices do switch between the router and satellite, depending on which side of the house I'm on. I've verified that. So maybe I'm just lucky that the Orbi works so well for me, but I kinda doubt it from the reviews and tests that I've seen. I haven't tried it in AP mode, although I could do that, and use the R7800 with the wireless turned off. Not strongly motivated to do that. Works well the way that it is. I might do that if I had faster internet download speed, but that's not an issue here *smile*.
 
Long time luker..............
Had to post, Orbi has been horrible for me, called support many times, to no avail.
I get disconnects like crazy, android, apple, directv its crazy, so fed up.
I have a 3 pack from Costco, house is 4K feet 2 stories, they told me 3 is too much, I'm running 2 now, one upstairs and one downstairs.
as soon as you walk up or down the stairs you DROP, takes about 3 min to get connected to the proper router/satellite.
Even if your near the hardware you can drop, its pretty bad. Not ready for primetime for sure.
Sorry for the rant, LOL
-Bobby
 
Sounds like it could be a "sticky" client - one that stays connected to downstairs AP even when upstairs AP signal becomes stronger. This can happen when the downstairs signal is still strong enough upstairs to maintain a "good enough" connection as seen by the client.

BTW - Orbi tends to steer clients to 5G band, but clients sometimes revert to 2G when 5G signal drops off (this threshold/behavior varies from client to client). The 2G signal from downstairs Orbi AP may be good enough for client to stay connected on 2G instead of switching to upstairs Orbi 5G.
What kind of client are you walking with - a laptop, phone or tablet?

Some things to try (if you feel like experimenting):

1) If you aren't in the middle of a movie or call, one clumsy but efficient workaround may be to switch client wifi off then back on - once you are up the stairs, the client will likely prefer to connect to the 5G signal upstairs.
2) Another thing to see if on your devices you can force 5G band connection only, then the wifi coverage overlap between the downstairs and upstairs APs will be less, and the client will force itself to roam sooner and find a better connection - now the upstairs AP.
3) like you already determined, the Orbi signals are strong - this is why reducing from 3 to 2 APs helped. There may have been too much overlap of client facing wifi signals, and clients didn't feel the need to switch. Spacing the remaining Orbi APs farther apart may also help the clients decide sooner. Of course you still need the Orbis to be close enough for a decent backhaul connection to be maintained. This may require trial and error as the LED/app doesn't help too much...

Anyway just some ideas....
 
So I guess that it is true that some people have problems and some don't.

yes and that is whats so dammed confusing , as i guess it is for the orbi dev team , there seems to be little rhyme or reason as to why some are badly effected yet others are not

i am aware that the dev team are working on a fix but i would think its pretty hard to fault find an issue that seems so random
 

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