RT AX86U - Help me improving my latency please! Bufferbloat?

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miguepram

New Around Here
Good afternoon!

First of all i want to say sorry for my english because it isnt my native language.

As the title says, I would like to ask your advice to improve the latency of my connection.
I have decided to change the router + ONT HGU GPT-2541GNAC of my ISP (Movistar Spain) precisely because of latency problems. I read that it was a not very powerful router and that it could give bufferbloat problems so I bought an ONT UFIBER Nano G and an Asus RT-AX86U.

With the HGU in dslreports I received very low marks, with the bufferbloat graph always in the red zone. The ping in online games (COD CW and Warzone) was always around 60-70ms at least. This has changed with the AX86U. Now I have a pin beteen 35-45ms. I thought they were more than acceptable results and I couldn't improve any more, but by surprise in the waveform test I see that I have an average download latency of 20-30 ms. The upload is usually 1ms and the idle latency about 10ms on average.

Are these results normal? I have seen people test with 1 ms both in download and upload and I would like to try to achieve this. I hope someone can advise me. Could be ISP related problems or router config?

I have installed the latest merlin in the asus and the flexqos plugin, but the truth is that I have no idea how to configure the qos and others. I imagine that the key will be here, in knowing how to configure them, because I have tried to do it with the qos turned on in adaptive and gaming mode and the results are worse.

I leave you results of the speed tests. All the tests are done with the QOS turned off and all the equipment is wired with CAT 8. The tests are done on a laptop with i7, 16gb of ram and SSD, connected by a USB 3.0 gigabit network adapter. At the time of testing, the only thing that is connected is the laptop itself.

The scheme would be the following ISP FIBER (Movistar Spain 600/600 symmetrical) - ONT Ufiber (bridge mode) - AX86U - 3.0 usb UGREEN gigabit adapter - Laptop





I'm going to do a factory reset to the router and wait to see what you tell me! Thanks in advance!!!!
 

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bbunge

Part of the Furniture
There is not much you need to configure in FlexQOS

In Adaptive QOS/QOS choose Adaptive QOS - Manual Setting and set the Upload/Download bandwidth to 95% of your speed test. This is a starting point and can me adjusted as needed. I have 100/100 FIOS and can usually speed test up to 110/110. I have my Upload/Download bandwidth set to 107.00. I am using FlexQOS. You may want to check that fq_codel is enabled in FlexQOS/Customize. I have found that Asus QOS sometimes works better for me than fq_codel.
 

miguepram

New Around Here
Thanks for your answer! What results do you get in the waveform bufferbloat test? When it comes to setting 95% of my connection speed ... my upload speed varies a lot depending on the page where I do the test. From 320mbps on dslreports to 620mbps on speedtest.net. Which one am I supposed to fix? I'm going to try and tell you
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
With a 600/600 symmetrical ISP connection, there is no consumer router that can help you achieve close to those speeds with onboard QoS (hardware simply isn't powerful enough). But the good news is that you don't need QoS at those speeds either. :)

Your USB 3.0 Ethernet adaptor may be something to look at (is a better/different model possible to at least test with?), or maybe the drivers for it (if it needs/has any).

When testing, is the laptop plugged into AC and set to its highest 'Performance mode in the battery icon settings? If not, that could also be skewing the results you're seeing.

Are you disabling Wi-Fi when using the USB Ethernet adaptor? You only want one connection to the router at any time.

The following notes may help you get your router as fast, stable and reliable as possible when you're ready to do the full reset to factory defaults.

Fully Reset Router and Network

Best Practice Update/Setup Router/AiMesh Node(s) 2021
 

bbunge

Part of the Furniture
With a 600/600 symmetrical ISP connection, there is no consumer router that can help you achieve close to those speeds with onboard QoS (hardware simply isn't powerful enough). But the good news is that you don't need QoS at those speeds either. :)

Your USB 3.0 Ethernet adaptor may be something to look at (is a better/different model possible to at least test with?), or maybe the drivers for it (if it needs/has any).

When testing, is the laptop plugged into AC and set to its highest 'Performance mode in the battery icon settings? If not, that could also be skewing the results you're seeing.

Are you disabling Wi-Fi when using the USB Ethernet adaptor? You only want one connection to the router at any time.

The following notes may help you get your router as fast, stable and reliable as possible when you're ready to do the full reset to factory defaults.

Fully Reset Router and Network

Best Practice Update/Setup Router/AiMesh Node(s) 2021
Pretty sure the UFIBER Nano G is an optical to Ethernet adapter. It is supposed to have an upload/download display and those speeds are what the OP should use in QOS.
AS for resetting the AX86U the best reset is to do an Asus Hard Factory Reset (https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1039074/) followed by a manual configuration
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
Optical to Ethernet, like an 'ONT'? 600/600 up/down speeds don't need QoS.

We agree on the resetting overview. My links are just more verbose. :)
 

miguepram

New Around Here
thanks for your answer!

The adapter I use is this: adapter and I have tried this one as well adapter 2, both giving me the same results. I am planning to acquire this with a view to the future, increase the transfer speed pc-nas (the nas goes to a multigigabit switch with link aggregation together with the pc, and these to the 2.5g port of the router, but I have not configured this yet, waiting to leave the connection as optimized possible) and to do the tests as well but I don't know if it will be worth it at the moment: adapter multigigabit

The notebook is with all power settings in performance mode and connected to the electrical network. Wi-Fi is off.

I just did a factory reset to the router (WPS button) but at night (I'm going to work now and I can't leave my girlfriend without internet ...) I'll try to do it the way you say in your notes (much more exhaustive) and reinstall the firmware again and see if there is any difference.

From what you told me ... I must forget about the QoS right? I do not need them at all with my 600/600 (the download speed usually exceeds 600 but the upload speed is usually somewhat lower and more inconsistent)

In case that doing that I continue to have those 20-30 ms of ping in download, should I take it as something normal or may there be something wrong in the router, in my network, isp related or something?

Thanks for all guys!
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
I would suggest that 20-30 ms is normal when under full load. Doing anything less demanding (like gaming) will result in much lower pings.

One thing I would test is with good quality Cat5e Ethernet cable. Cat8 is not a standard and just might be part of the issue here.
 

miguepram

New Around Here
I would suggest that 20-30 ms is normal when under full load. Doing anything less demanding (like gaming) will result in much lower pings.

One thing I would test is with good quality Cat5e Ethernet cable. Cat8 is not a standard and just might be part of the issue here.

Well, I just finished doing all the hard reset process that you have recommended, along with the reinstallation of the latest fw merlin available.

After the reset I have simply configured the basic data to have internet, without touching anything else and I have repeated the tests, this time with the laptop's integrated gigabit adapter.

Without changes. Latency still appears in the download phase: https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=93252f0d-980d-4331-8856-68fdaed63e8a

Maybe yes, it's normal, but one thing I don't like is that in the internal speed test of the AX89U (speedtest.net) I always get better results (+ -30mbps in download and ... + -300 !!! in upload) Is this normal? Same server of course. Perhaps it is true that the problems come from the computer.

Speaking of cables, a couple of days ago I was testing different cables, some cat 5, and the results were always the same and always in the same ranges.

Changing the subject, is there any guide out there to configure the router in the best possible way in detail? I have seen the second link that you put me above but I see it more focused on wifi and it really is what worries me the least because I usually have everything wired although I have followed some of your advice that I have read out there such as assigning a fixed channel and the rest. Things like open ports, upnp, etc. I have always put a fixed IP to the game console in the DMZ but I think this is not recommended for security reasons. Better to activate UPNP?

Having the NAS (configured with access from an external network) and the PS5 on the same network, won't compatibility problems arise if both devices ask the router to open the same port at the same time? Some time ago I saw that both (my nas is a Synology ds418play by the way) had ports in common.

In this particular case, how is it better to manage the port opening thing? PS5 over DMZ and UPNP active, PS5 without DMZ and UPNP active, manual portforwarding, do I turn off nas when playing PS5?

Thanks for everything! You deserve a beer from me! Better 2 or 3 of course!
 

miguepram

New Around Here
Well! I am doing tests with the QoS and I have managed to have 0 ms of latency in both download and upload. QoS Cake with bandwith set to 300/300 give me no latency! The problem is that I am wasting half of my connection. If I increase the bandwith above 350 the latency values go up a lot. I suppose that as you said it is because of the processing capacity of the router. Should I reinstall FlexQos and try fq_codel or will the results be the same?
 

Adooni

Senior Member
Yes for this router Cake QoS limit is about 300Mb - I am not using Cake do you see in Tools - HW acceleration - disable or CTF etc?
FlexQoS and fq_codel (via amtm) will allow to use CTF - you can try if you do not have it with Cake QoS.
For net 600/600 normally you should not need QoS - it is like you have a few devices that take a lot internet speed.

I am able to get 500/500 with Cake QoS on ER-12 - cannot check what is limit as internet speed in this loc is 500/500 :(
 
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miguepram

New Around Here
Yes for this router Cake QoS limit is about 300Mb - I am not using Cake do you see in Tools - HW acceleration - disable or CTF etc?
FlexQoS and fq_codel (via amtm) will allow to use CTF - you can try if you do not have it with Cake QoS.
For net 600/600 normally you should not need QoS - it is like you have a few devices that take a lot internet speed.

I am able to get 500/500 with Cake QoS on ER-12 - cannot check what is limit as internet speed in this loc is 500/500 :(
I think I'm learning a lot of things these days ... so if I want to make the most of my connection and not suffer from bufferbloat I have 2 options: or looking for a more powerful router than the AX86U that is capable of managing SQM with my speeds (I'm looking at some models, but I see that they all come without WIFI, like the one you mention) or when I need a connection with the best possible latency (when I play the PS5, etc.) I limit in some way that the rest of the connected devices to not use all the remaining speed available (for example, tell my girlfriend not to watch Netflix in the other tv while im playing ...) We can say that up to here I am right, right?

Staying with the last option, is there a way in my current AX86U to limit the bandwidth to some specific devices, or better yet, to prioritize the bandwidth of the PS5 when it is in use? I think that if this is possible in the end it will be the most advisable thing and perhaps this way it will prevent my girlfriend from kicking me out of my house when I tell her that she cannot use Netflix or download things from the internet while I am playing.

Thanks guys! I'm really starting to get very curious about this whole topic, and what 3 days ago was a problem like "I've spent a lot of money on a new ONT and router and I'm still get lag" right now it's becoming such entertainment that "I'm going to learn how to get the most out of my connection"

PS: I wil reinstall FlexQoS and try if i can get fasters controlled speeds.
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
In addition to the links in post 4 above, the following may be of use (there are many others, but I can't effectively track them down now for you). :)

L&LD | SmallNetBuilder Forums (snbforums.com)


I wouldn't be too hung up on 'losing' half of your ISP speed if the connection was made rock-solid (re: Buffer bloat). The following link may be interesting to you for how limiting a highly variable ISP connection allowed for a much-improved user experience even with multiple client devices making demands on the network.



In other words, if using 300/300 settings gives you no latency, use it. And, allow your girlfriend to use the network too at the same time. 300Mbps is more than enough bandwidth to share for almost any 'normal' use case. And, you may just get to keep your girl for longer too! :D
 

bbunge

Part of the Furniture
Reading the original post, I am wondering if the issue you are having is with the USB to Ethernet adapter. Does your laptop not have an Ethernet port? if it is a 100 MB port have you tried the ping test through that? Have you tried the tests with the laptop WIFI? If it is an i7 processor the WIFI should be at least WIFI 5.
There have been some reports of slow speed with recent firmwares. Both Asus and Merlin. I have had no issues with my AX86U on either Asus or Merlin (I have switched firmware several times in the past month just because I like to see which works better for me).
 

Adooni

Senior Member
to be honest no wi-fi in router is better as you buy and connect AP Wi_FI point that have it own very powerful processor (2 cores latest wi-fi 6) for example. The biggest advantage of such system is that you can place router wherever you want and APs in perfect loc to cover your home.
I stick with ASUS solutions for 15y what is long but lately with with more projects to cover bigger homes AiMesh is pain for me. All depended what you want reboot every day, week, months etc.
I am advising now Unifi systems (are a bit more expensive) the same with good Asus routers. People do not understood that router is very important and they spent $500+ for cell but do not want to spend $100-250 for router.
In few months when I move to new loc I stop to advice in Asus part of forum as will not use it more. If UniFi part will be here more users etc I will start to post here again.
 

miguepram

New Around Here
Guys I am overwhelmed by the interest you are putting in helping me. Once again thank you for your time! Continuing with the tests I have deactivated the QoS and I have tried to simulate a real use situation while pinging google from the computer.

Four devices using youtube / netflix simultaneously in 4k and the ping test did not flinch. The only way I have managed to "saturate" it is by downloading files by direct download (megaupload, google drive, etc) and with the specific tests. So I really think that with the connection speed I have and a normal use such as watching Netflix, YouTube and others, I will not have any problem as you had already told me (at home we are two people and my girlfriend does not usually download 70gb UHDBlurays in her tablet as I do on the NAS so ...)

I have been testing with flex qos and with it I get up to 400/400 with no latency. I have tried to saturate it with the bufferbloat test running at the same time as a direct download from google drive, the COD on the PS5 and a google ping request. The values in the bufferbloat test on the pc have shot up but nevertheless the ping on the ps5 and the ping to google did not move, so I assume that it does its job prioritizing the gaming traffic correctly.

By the way, one thing that I do not know if it is normal is that when running the tests and others, with the QoS active, of the 4 cores of the Router the only one that really seems to be in use is 1. The others remain in very low% of use, less than 10%, while 1 reaches 80-90%. Is this normal? Shouldn't they all be more or less evenly matched?

Anyway, as I have already said, without intentionally trying to saturate my network, I do not see changes between having QoS active or not in a real-use situation. The only thing that could give me problems is the NAS download manager, but this is as simple to solve as pausing the server downloads when I decide to play online. Probably automatic updates from different devices could also saturate the network at some point, but I think that is something too rare (devices are not downloading firmware updates of several gbs every day) to pay attention to it. So I think I'm going to finish this ... "study" and totally discard the use of QoS on my router.

For now, the next thing I am going to do is reconfigure access to the NAS from outside my network. I can't quite understand the ASUS port opening system. From my ignorance I see many options that could serve me. Redundant. And I don't know which one is the best in my case. Router - Managed Switch TPLINK- NAs Synology ds418Play with link aggregation. I don't know if to activate the unpn, if to put the PS5 in DMZ, if to do it by hand ... in my previous router I was putting the ports one by one, the PS5 by DMZ and it worked correctly, but I would like to know if there is a better method .

A matter of reading and researching a few more days!

One more time! Thanks for everything guys.
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
Do not open your NAS to the internet!

Instead, use an OpenVPN server to reach your network (and anything within it). :)
 

bbunge

Part of the Furniture
Do not open your NAS to the internet!

Instead, use an OpenVPN server to reach your network (and anything within it). :)
Right! WD MyBook Live NAS have suffered wiped drives because of access from the internet. Also disable UPNP.
 

Morris

Senior Member
Load the Merlin firmware and use Cake QOS from the Adaptive QOS tab

Morris
 

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