Spectrum Gig MOCA issue

Unibrowser

Regular Contributor
It's been a while, I've had nothing but perfect MOCA 2.0 until recently. Long story short Spectrum upgraded me from their 400/20 plan to their 1000/40 plan for less money so I said yes. Nothing else has changed. I still have the same DOCSIS 3.1 modem as before. When I do a speed test though, I average at 700mbps and the best I've seen was 820mbps. The tech hooked up his tool at the POE and told me he was seeing 1.2gbps. So either something on my Coax is not up to snuff or the modem is possibly operating at a different frequency range now?
 

degrub

Very Senior Member
What device and point on the network are you doing the internet speed test from ?
Could be your router and/or modem capabilities, could be coax issue, etc.
Many consumer routers are not able to handle fully Gbit WAN-LAN, and it can depend on what else is running in the router and configuration.
Map of your current network and devices, please.
 

Unibrowser

Regular Contributor
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Unibrowser

Regular Contributor
I should also mention that when I transfer files over the same path to and from my NAS, I get 112-115MB/s.
 

degrub

Very Senior Member
Where did the tech do his test or reading ?
Did he say anything about the highest freq the modem was using ?

From the gaming pc out to the internet, the packets have to go to the router, then modem, then back across the same piece of coax. If there are any collisions or freq band overlap, that will reduce the measured speed.
That is ok if on different bands. Doccis 3.1 can overlap with moca 2, 2.5 bands. You may have to shift to higher bands on the moca modems.
So get into the cable modem and figure out what the highest freq bands doccis 3.1 is using .

you need to use one hardwired ethernet device and plug it into the lan port of the cable modem and run your speed test. Then move to a lan port on the main router, repeat.

what results do you get ?
 

Unibrowser

Regular Contributor
Where did the tech do his test or reading ?
Did he say anything about the highest freq the modem was using ?

From the gaming pc out to the internet, the packets have to go to the router, then modem, then back across the same piece of coax. If there are any collisions or freq band overlap, that will reduce the measured speed.
That is ok if on different bands. Doccis 3.1 can overlap with moca 2, 2.5 bands. You may have to shift to higher bands on the moca modems.
So get into the cable modem and figure out what the highest freq bands doccis 3.1 is using .

you need to use one hardwired ethernet device and plug it into the lan port of the cable modem and run your speed test. Then move to a lan port on the main router, repeat.

what results do you get ?
I did try putting the MOCA adapters in Band D High because I was thinking there was frequency overlap. But when I did that, they wouldn't do better than 90mbps. Ill do some more trouble shooting tomorrow. I have another powered splitter on the way to replace the BAMF one in the living room as well as a whole bunch of COAX termination caps to cap off all unused ports. I didn't realize that that can cause reflections.
 

Datalink

Regular Contributor
What data rate are you expecting to see? With gig ports on the modem and router, the best that you're going to see is 930 to 940 Mb/s given the overhead. Throw in the added MoCA network and you might be seeing the best that you can do at 820 Mb/s, given your current configuration with gig ports all around.

If you're expecting to see over 1 Gb/s, you'll need a modem with a multi-gig ethernet port (2.5 Gb/s), router with two or more multi-gig ethernet ports (good luck finding that) and MoCA adapters with Multi-gig ethernet port (2.5 Gb/s). There are MoCA adapters available with 2.5 Gb/s ports. I don't know if your pc adapter is compatible with multi-gig ports. If not, it should simply negotiate a transfer rate at 1 Gb/s max. So, you might have to replace the current 10 Gb/s card with a multi-gig network card that will run at 2.5 Gb/s.

The question is, what do you get if you move the modem and router to the cable entry point, bypassing all of the internal house cabling and hardware? That should be the best that you can do with your present modem and router. In theory, you should see approx 940 Mb/s at that point.
 
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degrub

Very Senior Member
I should also mention that when I transfer files over the same path to and from my NAS, I get 112-115MB/s.
That is about 920 Mbits/sec which is as much as you will get with LAN 1Gbit ports.. theoretical is about 940

it also can depend on the lan port and cpu, motherboard doing the testing. If you can get 920-940 direct from the modem with that pc, then that will be the benchmark for that pc.
 
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degrub

Very Senior Member
It's been a while, I've had nothing but perfect MOCA 2.0 until recently. Long story short Spectrum upgraded me from their 400/20 plan to their 1000/40 plan for less money so I said yes. Nothing else has changed. I still have the same DOCSIS 3.1 modem as before. When I do a speed test though, I average at 700mbps and the best I've seen was 820mbps. The tech hooked up his tool at the POE and told me he was seeing 1.2gbps. So either something on my Coax is not up to snuff or the modem is possibly operating at a different frequency range now?
Possibly the router or what is running in the router is the source of the bit rate reduction. That is the reason for running the speed test durectly attached to the modem and then directly attached to a lan port on the router.
 

krkaufman

Very Senior Member
Re: the new issues and possible MoCA interference, one quite disruptive but necessary test would be to temporarily eliminate MoCA from your coax: power-off the MoCA adapters and remove both MoCA filters, and reboot the modem. Then test the speeds … albeit only from the AC88U router, since your extended MoCA LAN is offline. Ideally, you could also get into the modem’s diagnostics and get a report of what frequencies are in use for the downstream/upstream channels. (Basically, you’re looking to see if your provider has begun using DOCSIS 3.1 frequencies above 1002 MHz for downstream channels, frequencies which would be blocked by both the “PoE” and “prophylactic” MoCA filters.)


p.s.
I have another powered splitter on the way to replace the BAMF one in the living room
The BAMF isn’t an ideal splitter for MoCA, but your MoCA signals will have a whole lot tougher time passing between the input/outputs of an amplifier.
 

krkaufman

Very Senior Member
The question is, what do you get if you move the modem and router to the cable entry point, bypassing all of the internal house cabling and hardware?
Just be sure that the modem is directly connected to the incoming feed — where the “hardware” needing to be bypassed includes the two MoCA filters currently installed.
 

krkaufman

Very Senior Member
I did try putting the MOCA adapters in Band D High because I was thinking there was frequency overlap.
*IF* your downstream service now requires access through the DOCSIS 3.1 “initial rollout” frequency range, up to 1218 MHz, the MoCA filters would be blocking that.

Changing the operating frequency on the MoCA adapters would be one method to retain MoCA connectivity in such a circumstance, but you’d theoretically also require a “PoE” MoCA filter with adjusted stop- and pass-band ranges to keep your MoCA signals secured while allowing the D3.1 “initial rollout” signals free passage between the provider and modem. (I say “theoretical” because finding/acquiring such a MoCA filter is problematic.)

So, IF your provider is using D3.1 frequencies above 1002 MHz, the only real answer is isolating the DOCSIS feed from the MoCA-infused coax.
 

krkaufman

Very Senior Member
It's been a while, I've had nothing but perfect MOCA 2.0 until recently. Long story short Spectrum upgraded me from their 400/20 plan to their 1000/40 plan for less money so I said yes. Nothing else has changed. I still have the same DOCSIS 3.1 modem as before. When I do a speed test though, I average at 700mbps and the best I've seen was 820mbps.
Speed test was done on Gaming PC
D0111F4B-7A35-4132-9D22-8EA3FFA78167.jpeg


Hmm, skipped right over the obvious. Your MoCA network consists of 3 MoCA 2.0 adapters (presumably bonded), so max throughput between MoCA nodes would be 800 Mbps (2x 400 Mbps per channel) — with the third adapter putting “TURBO” mode and its 25% throughput boost out of reach. Your current MoCA setup cannot support Gigabit throughput, even unidirectional.

edit: p.s. A test: Power off all the MoCA adapters, pause a beat, and bring just the 2 Translite adapters back online; then test throughput from the Gaming PC. Theoretically, with just the 2 adapters active on the coax, “TURBO” mode should get you close to 1000 Mbps throughput — with a 25% bump over the typical 400 Mbps per MoCA channel. (But note that the MoCA link can’t outperform whatever you measure when hard-wired to the router LAN via Ethernet, so that test needs to be run to establish your baseline max.)
 
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krkaufman

Very Senior Member
I did try putting the MOCA adapters in Band D High because I was thinking there was frequency overlap. But when I did that, they wouldn't do better than 90mbps.
The bonded MoCA 2.0 adapters should be capable of equivalent throughput no matter their frequency setting — provided 2 bonded channels and MoCA-friendly coax components across the whole of the MoCA Extended Band D frequency range. The greatly reduced throughput could be a misconfiguration of the adapters or a sign of MoCA-hostile components, at least at the higher MoCA frequencies.
 

Unibrowser

Regular Contributor
The bonded MoCA 2.0 adapters should be capable of equivalent throughput no matter their frequency setting — provided 2 bonded channels and MoCA-friendly coax components across the whole of the MoCA Extended Band D frequency range. The greatly reduced throughput could be a misconfiguration of the adapters or a sign of MoCA-hostile components, at least at the higher MoCA frequencies.
Sorry for the late response. Spectrum sent me another modem. But that didn't fix the issue. But I noticed that the new modem came with a Coax splitter....
Apparently even though I had a DOCSIS 3.1 modem for years, the new Gig speed runs on a wider frequency range. So maybe there is overlap. Idk.
 

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Unibrowser

Regular Contributor
Re: the new issues and possible MoCA interference, one quite disruptive but necessary test would be to temporarily eliminate MoCA from your coax: power-off the MoCA adapters and remove both MoCA filters, and reboot the modem. Then test the speeds … albeit only from the AC88U router, since your extended MoCA LAN is offline. Ideally, you could also get into the modem’s diagnostics and get a report of what frequencies are in use for the downstream/upstream channels. (Basically, you’re looking to see if your provider has begun using DOCSIS 3.1 frequencies above 1002 MHz for downstream channels, frequencies which would be blocked by both the “PoE” and “prophylactic” MoCA filters.)


p.s.

The BAMF isn’t an ideal splitter for MoCA, but your MoCA signals will have a whole lot tougher time passing between the input/outputs of an amplifier.
The powered splitter isn't a good idea? It's a CommScope CSMF1APDU9VPI. And for the BAMF splitters, what else do you recommend?
 

Unibrowser

Regular Contributor
*IF* your downstream service now requires access through the DOCSIS 3.1 “initial rollout” frequency range, up to 1218 MHz, the MoCA filters would be blocking that.

Changing the operating frequency on the MoCA adapters would be one method to retain MoCA connectivity in such a circumstance, but you’d theoretically also require a “PoE” MoCA filter with adjusted stop- and pass-band ranges to keep your MoCA signals secured while allowing the D3.1 “initial rollout” signals free passage between the provider and modem. (I say “theoretical” because finding/acquiring such a MoCA filter is problematic.)

So, IF your provider is using D3.1 frequencies above 1002 MHz, the only real answer is isolating the DOCSIS feed from the MoCA-infused coax.
I turned off all MOCA adapters and wouldn't you know, internet is alive again . So I just ordered 3 GoCOAX 2.5 MOCA adapters and an Antronix 5-1675 3- way(attic) and 2-way(living room) splitters. I will have to run them on Band -D High. Any idea of what bandwidth I might see out of this setup?
 

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