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NUTW0RX

Regular Contributor
If there’s anything I learned in the last 10 weeks from trying to replace a Netgear WNDR3800 and R6300 with a newer 802.11ac router is that wireless is consistently inconsistent. I tested the Synology RT1900ac, Netgear R8500 (3 of them thanks to failing radios), ASUS RT-AC5300, RT-AC3100, RT-AC1900P and now the Synology RT2600ac.

The R8500 was faster overall than all of them but there was no way I was going to continue with replacements with repeated radio failures and wasn't going to put up with their tired interface and lack a features. I really liked the RT1900ac features and interface but had average performance at best. I wound up settling with the RT-AC5300 because it was almost as fast as the R8500 but had a better interface and features. There have been reports that the radios in this model have been failing like the Netgear and left me uneasy; I’m wondering if it has something to do with the Broadcom chipset they share or if they’re overheating because there isn’t any way to adjust power with both tri-band models.

Luckily the RT2600ac started shipping before my return period expired on the RT-AC5300 and keeping the Synology. I wish performance was better overall than the R8500 but I’d stack it in-between the two with the Synology beating the Netgear on a few of my tests. Performance for all models were inconsistent and neither of the top three dominated, but my choice was based on performance in locations and operations I perform the most, family feedback, features, product management and usability.

I like that you can adjust power levels but only low, medium and high are offered; the low levels on 2GHz and 5GHz cover the areas I need on that segment of my network. The other models don’t let you adjust power levels. It’s nice I’m not restricted to 16 character passwords like the ASUS models. One down side is that it doesn’t support 64 HEX characters like other routers and clients and have addressed this with Synology. At least they responded the next day to my query unlike the other manufacturers. It’s great that Synology and ASUS allow you to change the admin user name and also support HTTPS management on the LAN side as well as selecting your own port unlike Netgear. The Synology has certificate support which can be exported to other appliances and allows SYSLOG as well as other features. I’m currently using the router as an NTP server and pointing all devices to it so only one device goes out externally for time. Another feature I’m looking forward to testing more is the IPS beta add-on they have; it’s a free feature and there’s also a paid subscription service. You need to have external storage to download and use so a fast SD card should do. Off the top of my head it added about 10% CPU usage up to (30ish) and the same amount of RAM. There are other packages available that can be downloaded like a DNS server, VPN and others but not planning on using it on this router.

I was pleased to see the addition of eight 5GHz band channels (52-112) (the RT1900ac had this as well) but haven’t had the chance to use them. There are currently no users on those channels in my area and it reminds me of the days when I was the only one using 802.11a on 5GHz for years. Too bad it’s getting crowded like 2.4GHz in my area.

I think Synology made good with their second router attempt and glad I’m able to use “big boy” features not seen on consumer/home routers and for less cost. ASUS can try to polish their UI with their “updated” 5300 for a lot more money but my money is going to Synology with a more complete package. I’m also confident they’d support this product with updates longer than the home versions based on experience with some of their NAS devices.

This isn’t a controlled test environment but my typical “real world” operation.
Used a PCIe Half Mini Card Intel AC 7260 2x2 (867 Mb), an ASUS USB-AC68 USB 3.0 3x4 (1300 Mb), and Netgear A6200 USB 2.0 (867 Mb) adapters for testing. Routers were swapped at the same location on a second floor and clients on 1st floor (same location) at about 45 degree angle and approximately 40 ft. away. Power was set to high for RT2600ac and both used same fixed channels on 5GHz where adjacent interference was minimal. Routers were upgraded to latest versions, set in AP mode and fully configured as I would normally run as well as client adapters updated on Windows 10 64-bit.

USB-AC68 using USB 3.0 system:

RT-AC5300 – 128 Mb peak / 128 Mb typical download

240 Mb peak / 232 Mb typical upload

232 Mb peak / 168 Mb typical download w/MIMO

200 Mb peak / 264 Mb typical upload w/MIMO

RT2600ac – 136 Mb peak / 120 Mb typical download

200 Mb peak / 184 Mb typical upload

128 Mb peak / 120 Mb typical download w/MIMO

208 Mb peak / 200 Mb typical upload w/MIMO


USB-AC68 using USB 2.0 system:

RT-AC5300 – 256 Mb peak / 248 Mb typical download

224 Mb peak / 216 Mb typical upload

240 Mb peak / 224 Mb typical download w/MIMO

32 Mb peak / 24 Mb typical upload w/MIMO

RT2600ac – 272 Mb peak / 264 Mb typical download

264 Mb peak / 200 Mb typical upload

272 Mb peak / 264 Mb typical download w/MIMO

208 Mb peak / 200 Mb typical upload w/MIMO


A6200 USB 2.0 adapter:

RT-AC5300 – 88 Mb peak / 88 Mb typical download

200 Mb peak / 184 Mb typical upload

88 Mb peak / 80 Mb typical download w/MIMO

192 Mb peak / 184 Mb typical upload w/MIMO

RT2600ac – 96 Mb peak / 72 Mb typical download

192 Mb peak / 184 Mb typical upload

112 Mb peak / 80 Mb typical download w/MIMO

192 Mb peak / 184 Mb typical upload w/MIMO


Internal 7260:

RT-AC5300 – 328 Mb peak / 304 Mb typical download

184 Mb peak / 168 Mb typical upload

128 Mb peak / 120 Mb typical download w/MIMO

288 Mb peak / 272 Mb typical upload w/MIMO

RT2600ac – 240 Mb peak / 144 Mb typical download

224 Mb peak / 200 Mb typical upload

240 Mb peak / 192 Mb typical download w/MIMO

264 Mb peak / 192 typical upload w/MIMO


Gigabit Ethernet:

RT-AC5300 –536 Mb peak / 504 Mb typical download

920 Mb peak / 904 Mb typical upload

RT2600ac – 632 Mb peak / 504 Mb typical download

920 Mb peak / 904 Mb typical upload


Highest speed gap in favor of the RT-AC5300 was about 160 Mb better average download speed with 7260 adapter.

Highest speed gap for the RT2600ac was about 176 Mb better average upload speed with USB-AC68 adapter on USB 2.0 system.

The fastest wireless speed test was achieved by the RT-AC5300 with the 7260 adapter registering 328 Mb peak and 304 Mb average download. The same router w/MIMO enabled also had the slowest wireless speed test with the USB-AC68 adapter, on a USB 2.0 system with only 32 Mb peak and 24 Mb average upload.

Wired switch speed on the RT2600ac was 96 Mb faster peak but both had the same average uploads; this was slower by about 360 Mb than other switches tested. Upload speeds were equal and as good as or slightly better than other switches.

- - - UPDATE

Finally got around to testing additional 5 GHz channels and the ASUS USB-AC68 doesn't work with them. The notebooks with the internal Intel NICs picked up every channel I threw at it. These are the channels the ASUS couldn't handle: 52,56,60,64,100,104,108,112,116,132,136,140

I can imagine those that turn on automagic channel selection (only on few routers that support these channels - not ASUS) and all of a sudden clients stop connecting because of adapters that don't support them.

I'm glad the new router supports these channels since nobody is using them in the area...it will be like 802.11a days again where I was solo for a long while. Time to go notebook shopping so I can get rid of the legacy gear and get an internal Intel NIC. Wish I would have tested this a week ago so I could return the adapter. Guess I'll chuck it in the draw with my 1Mb PCMCIA Wifi adapter after I get a new notebook.
 
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3.0 client:

using 2.0 client:


hi whats the 2.0 and 3.0 refer to ? as im a little confused as to why the 3.0 is slower than the 2.0

The other models don’t let you adjust power levels.

all the asus roters do

and glad I’m able to use “big boy” features not seen on consumer/home routers and for less cost.

like ?

ASUS can try to polish their UI with their “updated” 5300 for a lot more money

dont understand what you are saying here

but my money is going to Synology with a more complete package.

even though a lot of its so called big boy features are still in beta testing

I’m also confident they’d support this product with updates longer than the home versions based on experience with some of their NAS devices.

yet no extra packages have become available for ether the 1900ac or the 2600ac

The same router w/MIMO enabled also had the slowest wireless speed test with the USB-AC68 adapter, on a 2.0 system with only 32 Mb peak and 24 Mb average upload.


why would you test without mimo ? or are you referring to mu-mimo ?

thanks for posting , just need you to clear up some issues as above plz
 
"pete y testing, post: 304753, member: 7314"hi whats the 2.0 and 3.0 refer to ? as im a little confused as to why the 3.0 is slower than the 2.0

I updated the original post adding USB 2.0 and USB 3.0. I'm not sure why the speed differences and recorded what I saw during testing. I ran tests again to make sure the numbers weren't off and had similar results.

all the asus roters do

No RF power adjustments are available with more recent ASUS versions but older versions had it.

like ?

Here's a list of some things:
  • Seperate guest AP isolation
  • Greater storage options with hibernation options. You can even access external storage devices with a mobile device by scanning a QR code with Android, ios and Windows Mobile.
  • Options for FTPS and SFTP where ASUS only has insecure FTP option
  • You can send logs to SYSLOG server, change port, use TCP and SSL certificates. You can use as SYSLOG server with the features mentioned. You can also e-mail log notifications externally through your own SMTP, other providers or use a push service via Synology's e-mail server in Taiwan if you trust your info heading that way. There's also the ability to send via SMS if you have a service.
  • Two-factor authentication w/support for BlackBerry, Android, ios and Windows Mobile
  • Additional user accounts can be created where ASUS allows to change the admin user but not add any new users. Password complexity can also be configured. And passwords greater than 16 characters is supported.
  • Guest DHCP server on separate subnet
  • You can create firewall rule sets to add regions (country codes) - Didn't remember seeing on ASUS
  • RADIUS server a separate package - Options for Local/LDAP/Domain users, utilizing certificates
  • Availability of DNS server
dont understand what you are saying here

Their updated GT 5300 and oooh so shiny GUI


upload_2017-1-29_22-39-52.png

https://www.asus.com/us/Networking/ROG-Rapture-GT-AC5300/

even though a lot of its so called big boy features are still in beta testing

The features I listed above are all available as finished products now. The only beta package is their IPS and has a broad range of rules that can be modified. You can schedule the frequency of updates from ET Open or use the paid subscription of ET Pro.
https://www.proofpoint.com/us/products/et-pro-ruleset


ASUS's MU-MIMO setting wasn't available until months after launch but first appearing via e-mail only as an alpha and later included as an alpha download. It's been over a year, it's still alpha code and it shows. Other vendors either started with beta code and then updated to "release" or just shipped with released versions.


yet no extra packages have become available for ether the 1900ac or the 2600ac

Synology had packages available since the RT1900ac and the only beta product is the IPS which appears to be stable. Here are other Synology packages you can add: VPN Plus Server, DNS Server, RADIUS Server, Media Server, Download Station and Cloud Station Server. You can find the older VPN Server and even Perl from the link below. I wouldn't load any SOHO router, especially a consumer version, with all of those services because you'd likely bog down the one thing it's built to do.

https://www.synology.com/en-us/support/download/RT2600ac



why would you test without mimo ? or are you referring to mu-mimo ?

thanks for posting , just need you to clear up some issues as above plz[/QUOTE]

I was referring to MU-MIMO and looking at the effects of enabling and disabling.


Enabling Protected Management Frames with the ASUS USB-AC68 adapter didn't cause BSoDs on Windows systems like all the ASUS routers I tried. It's odd that that the same manufacturers adapter works better with other manufacturers routers.
 
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I was referring to MU-MIMO and looking at the effects of enabling and disabling.

you wouldnt and shouldnt notice anything as you would need 2 or more mu-mimo clients connected and downloading at once to notice any recordable difference

nabling Protected Management Frames with the ASUS USB-AC68 adapter didn't cause BSoDs on Windows systems like all the ASUS routers I tried. It's odd that that the same manufacturers adapter works better with other manufacturers routers.


i have no issue here with ether the pce-ac68 or the pce-ac88 i use here for testing , in general this would happen if you have other wifi drivers installed on the comp , i did have issues when i had the dlink dwa-192 drivers also installed on my comp as well as the tp link T9E dricers as they where conflicting
 
you wouldnt and shouldnt notice anything as you would need 2 or more mu-mimo clients connected and downloading at once to notice any recordable difference


i have no issue here with ether the pce-ac68 or the pce-ac88 i use here for testing , in general this would happen if you have other wifi drivers installed on the comp , i did have issues when i had the dlink dwa-192 drivers also installed on my comp as well as the tp link T9E dricers as they where conflicting

Not a driver conflict since it was the only one installed and could repeat the BSoD by enabling that setting.

BTW, I updated the above post since I saw the original quote was hiding the bulk of the reply.
 
Their updated GT 5300 and oooh so shiny GUI

lol i was going to say the normal 5300 doesnt have a new gui , that one is just aimed at the gamer market

No RF power adjustments are available with more recent ASUS versions but older versions had it.

last time i looked it was still there

Other vendors either started with beta code and then updated to "release" or just shipped with released versions.

the reason for this is broadcom as they havnt finished polishing the turd that is mu-mimo and besides its not that big a feature , i can take or leave mu-mimo as it effects little in day to day use in a busy wifi household

Synology had packages available since the RT1900ac and the only beta product is the IPS which appears to be stable. Here are other Synology packages you can add: VPN Plus Server, DNS Server, RADIUS Server, Media Server, Download Station and Cloud Station Server.
and thats all it still has , the same i dare say will happen with the 2600 as synology seem to be wanting the 3rd party world to develope these package and there seems little interest so far

btw what test client did you use for testing the wifi as i am using the asus pce-ac88 which is 4 x 4 and will give better and different results with testing with a 2 x 2 client or 3 x 3 client
 
lol i was going to say the normal 5300 doesnt have a new gui , that one is just aimed at the gamer market



last time i looked it was still there



the reason for this is broadcom as they havnt finished polishing the turd that is mu-mimo and besides its not that big a feature , i can take or leave mu-mimo as it effects little in day to day use in a busy wifi household


and thats all it still has , the same i dare say will happen with the 2600 as synology seem to be wanting the 3rd party world to develope these package and there seems little interest so far

btw what test client did you use for testing the wifi as i am using the asus pce-ac88 which is 4 x 4 and will give better and different results with testing with a 2 x 2 client or 3 x 3 client


Used the following on W10 notebooks:
Intel AC 7260
ASUS USB-AC68 USB
Netgear A6200 USB

The internal card is 2x2 867Mb rated and performed better at times than the ASUS 3x4 1300Mb rated adapter so specs aren't always what they claim. Same goes for the router which is 1.7Gb rated on 5GHz and the ASUS 2.1Gb on 5GHz.
 
ASUS's MU-MIMO setting wasn't available until months after launch but first appearing via e-mail only as an alpha and later included as an alpha download. It's been over a year, it's still alpha code and it shows. Other vendors either started with beta code and then updated to "release" or just shipped with released versions.

Just to clarify the MU-MIMO situation regarding Asus.

Asus used to have two product/lines that had MU-MIMO on the way: the RT-AC87U (using a Quantenna chip) and the RT-AC88U/3100/5300 (using a Broadcom chip).

Quantenna took much, MUCH longer than anticipated to deliver MU-MIMO support. When they delivered it, Asus branded it as beta.

Broadcom also took quite some time to deliver it. When they did, it wasn't working properly, so Asus labeled it as alpha.

To this day:

- No idea how well Quantenna's MU-MIMO works, nobody seemed to care enough to test/review it
- Broadcom's inability to provide working MU-MIMO lies in good part in a chipset limitation. They had to release a revised chip (the BCM4366E) to resolve the hardware issues.

This isn't anything to do with Asus, but with these SoC manufacturers. Any other manufacturer using the same chipset will also have the same limitation. The "other vendors" you refer to are most likely using QCA chipsets, not Broadcom or Quantenna. If any of them ships a Broadcom-based router and they don't label it as "alpha" or "beta", don't be fooled: it still does NOT work properly, as evidenced by Tim's own reviews. They just aren't willing to publicly admit it that it's not in "working condition", and that it will most likely never be.
 
- No idea how well Quantenna's MU-MIMO works, nobody seemed to care enough to test/review it
- Broadcom's inability to provide working MU-MIMO lies in good part in a chipset limitation. They had to release a revised chip (the BCM4366E) to resolve the hardware issues.

QCA has been a bit inconsistent on the MU front - some devices do better than others - I suspect this is related to different drivers and front-ends (MU is pretty sensitive to this).

You bring up a good point - I also would be interested to see how well QTN has done, along with MRVL - and now we're seeing client side support from multiple vendors (Intel, Broadcom, and QCA) - but I suspect there are challenges with test equipment here as most gear was developed around QCA's implementation being first out of the gate.
 
- Broadcom's inability to provide working MU-MIMO lies in good part in a chipset limitation. They had to release a revised chip (the BCM4366E) to resolve the hardware issues.
And then there is the fallback to 1x1 when MU-MIMO is used for Broadcom 2x2 client side chipsets. Case in point being the Samsung 7s.
 
And then there is the fallback to 1x1 when MU-MIMO is used for Broadcom 2x2 client side chipsets. Case in point being the Samsung 7s.

Do we know for a fact this one is on Broadcom and not Samsung tho? We'd need other BCM-based clients to compare. Unfortunately, my N5X uses QCA (AFAIK).
 
Do we know for a fact this one is on Broadcom and not Samsung tho? We'd need other BCM-based clients to compare. Unfortunately, my N5X uses QCA (AFAIK).

It's a Broadcom NIC inside the package - there was some question about this a while back...
 
2016 hasn't been a good year for Broadcom's wifi products...

It's been a busy year for Broadcom - between the Avago merger, and some of the product line spin-off to Cypress Semi...

I'd agree that the Wave 2 products have had some challenges, but they're still shipping a lot of product in the WiFi space.
 
It's been a busy year for Broadcom - between the Avago merger, and some of the product line spin-off to Cypress Semi...

I'd agree that the Wave 2 products have had some challenges, but they're still shipping a lot of product in the WiFi space.

If I had been an OEM in 2016 looking to develop a high-end product for the 2017 market, QCA would probably have been my primary choice before BCM, for many technical reasons.

The fact that a year after it was announced we still haven't seen a single product based on the BCM4908 isn't inspiring confidence either. The Asus GT-AC5300 seem to be the first product announced that will use it, and I suspect that won't be on the market until much later in 2017, unless they pull a rabbit out of a hat.

If manufacturers with a solid software track record like Synology and QNAP start entering that market, it might have an interesting impact on the market in terms of performance (as these two don't seem to be going with low-end hardware for their products). It might start applying pressure on the performance front for the existing competition, which means the SoC manufacturer will also have to step up.
 
If I had been an OEM in 2016 looking to develop a high-end product for the 2017 market, QCA would probably have been my primary choice before BCM, for many technical reasons.

The fact that a year after it was announced we still haven't seen a single product based on the BCM4908 isn't inspiring confidence either. The Asus GT-AC5300 seem to be the first product announced that will use it, and I suspect that won't be on the market until much later in 2017, unless they pull a rabbit out of a hat.

I'm not an apologist for Broadcom - QCA was perhaps a bit distracted with the Atheros merger right during Wave 1 - so things can turn - and maybe MediaTek or Marvell will shine next...

QCOM is going to have their hands full in 2017 with the NXP merge (which is doubly complicated by the ongoing NXP-Freescale thing that was in process there).

Anyways - we're getting off track - Synology has done a pretty good job with the RT-AC2600 - and it's more than just the Hardware, it's the SW that is the good thing here...
 
Finally got around to testing additional 5 GHz channels and the ASUS USB-AC68 doesn't work with them. The notebooks with the internal Intel NICs picked up every channel I threw at it. These are the channels the ASUS couldn't handle: 52,56,60,64,100,104,108,112,116,132,136,140

I can imagine those that turn on automagic channel selection (only on few routers that support these channels - not ASUS) and all of a sudden clients stop connecting because of adapters that don't support them.

I'm glad the new router supports these channels since nobody is using them in the area...it will be like 802.11a days again where I was solo for a long while. Time to go notebook shopping so I can get rid of the legacy gear and get an internal Intel NIC. Wish I would have tested this a week ago so I could return the adapter. Guess I'll chuck it in the draw with my 1Mb PCMCIA Wifi adapter after I get a new notebook.
 

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