TS-453D questions

zero7404

Regular Contributor
decided to buy my first QNAP NAS, migrating over from a WD EX2 NAS in order to get additional functionality. before i receive it and begin setup, have some remarks and questions about it.

UPS:
concerning QNAP NAS's in general, would most model UPS's work when connected to the NAS (USB) ? I have a Cyberpower CP600LCD that is supposed to be a smart UPS but it isn't listed in the compatibility section on the QNAP site for this particular NAS.
i want to setup the NAS so that it will do a controlled shutdown (unmount the volumes/disks and power down) a certain number of minutes after the UPS indicates to the NAS that it is running on battery. i think with QTS 5 there are 2 options: Power down the NAS or go into auto-protect mode.

anyone here tested these features ? auto-protect is attractive because the NAS will resume when utility power comes back. but I would want to be sure that it safely unmounts the file systems and the physical HDDs move the flying heads into park.

RAID:
coming from a WD 2-bay NAS, I will be using 4 disks in the TS-453D and setting up RAID5. according to what i see in the QNAP raid calculator - with 2x 8TB + 2x 6TB drives, the NAS will setup 3 of them in stripe and use one for parity. my limiting size is 6TB so I will lose 4TB total when setting up a raid5, which doesn't bother me much at the moment. but i don't understand whether the NAS is distributing parity across all drives, or using a dedicated drive for all parity data ? is that how raid 5 is supposed to work ?

for instance, if i lose the parity drive, i will still have my data intact ? if i lose one of the 3 data drives (the parity drive is intact), do i still have my data intact ?

VM:
it would be nice if i can run my windows and ubuntu vm's right from the NAS. i currently use them with VMWare Fusion for mac and keep them local on the mac. if wanting to run these vm's from the NAS, does the compatible VMWare app for QTS cost $ ? VMWare Fusion license for my use on the mac was free as I am a home user (not a business).

would i be able to load the VMWare app onto the NAS, and then move/import the VM's themselves onto the NAS ? assuming it's going to allocate some block of space from the storage pool/volume I create when I add the drives. planning to just create one large storage pool to keep things simple backup-wise.

BACKUPS:
i plan to plug in an OWC enclosure, and setup backup jobs to backup everything on the NAS (all content), which QNAP app should I look into for doing that ? i currently have this enclosure filled with all my content from my WD NAS, after setting up the QNAP, I was planning to plug the OWC into the NAS and just copy back all my files/content into the appropriate shares I create. Any special concerns for permissions of the files I copy back ? Is it possible to do the copy operation from within QTS ? looking to avoid connecting the new NAS and the OWC directly to my computer in order to transfer files. planning to connect the NAS to the network and the OWC backup enclosure to the NAS via USB.
 

zero7404

Regular Contributor
sorry in advance for the loaded OP .... i'm doing a combination of reading the QTS user guide and research to find out more about my questions.

another thing that i'm curious about is that if QNAP NAS devices can allow swapping some (not all) the disks in a RAID array:

from: 6TB, 6TB, 8TB, 8TB (RAID 5)
to: 4x 8TB (RAID 5)

QTS 5 user guide mentions how to add capacity by replacing all disks one by one. but does it allow replacement of just 1, 2 or 3 disks in a 4 disk array ? the guide assumes you want to upgrade all the disks to larger capacities like this scenario:

from: 6TB, 6TB, 8TB, 8TB (RAID 5)
to: 4x 10TB (RAID 5)

just wondering, before i decide to build a RAID 5 using 2x 6TB + 2x 8TB as my starter setup and expanding later on.
 

dosborne

Very Senior Member
I doubt the cyberpower ups would be an issue. Pretty generic stuff. I've been running with auto protection mode for many years and it has performed many safe shutdowns.

The calculation and implementation of raid 5 is standard, i.e. all disk volumes are equal, that's the way it works for recovery. It isn't a problem starting with the drives you have and upgrading later. It just takes time to swap 1, rebuild raid, swap another, rebuild raid again, then increase the volume size to incorporate the new available space.

I'd avoid qts 5.0.0 at all costs and stick with the stable 4.5.4 release until they fix many more bugs.

A great community forum at forum.qnap.com
 

zero7404

Regular Contributor
whats the story with 5.0.0 ?
one thing that comes to mind, can i downgrade a QTS installation ?
i think this NAS comes with QTS 5 out of the box

so i take it that it is possible to go from 6,6,8,8 to 8,8,8,8 and just expand to gain an additional 6 TB later on. the qts user guide doesnt mention that scenario, just talks about expanding all disks 1 at a time.
 
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zero7404

Regular Contributor
I doubt the cyberpower ups would be an issue. Pretty generic stuff. I've been running with auto protection mode for many years and it has performed many safe shutdowns.

The calculation and implementation of raid 5 is standard, i.e. all disk volumes are equal, that's the way it works for recovery. It isn't a problem starting with the drives you have and upgrading later. It just takes time to swap 1, rebuild raid, swap another, rebuild raid again, then increase the volume size to incorporate the new available space.

I'd avoid qts 5.0.0 at all costs and stick with the stable 4.5.4 release until they fix many more bugs.

A great community forum at forum.qnap.com

so i got the nas, setup and been running for little over a week …

8tb x2 + 6tb x2 in RAID5. that’s supposed to be 18tb decimal, the nas reports binary. created a static volume using all 4 disks.

initially it came to me with QTS 4.2.something. i started setup and configuring using this version. some QNAP apps would not update correctly and after upgrading to 4.5.4 they updated/installed and worked. odd thing i experienced is that i was certain i turned OFF anything related to auto-update for the firmware. but to my surprise one morning i logged into the nas and saw it upgraded to 5.0.0.

instead of looking for downgrade paths and dealing with that i’m staying on 5.0.0 and triple-checked my auto-update settings to make sure this thing is not updating itself or my installed apps until i say it can. the past. few days it’s been good.

concerning the OP and the ups, nas detects it fine, turned on the auto-protect function and tested it for enable after 5 mins … it works so i’m happy with that. perhaps there is an app (thinking way out there) that can give me more ups detail on the nas, haven’t looked around yet.

on my mac i have the app called “UPS Power Monitor” … and the app has located the nut server on the QNAP and provides me with all the nut statistics it’s measuring from the ups, which is nice to have without plugging the ups directly into the mac. it’s not as good control as is Cyberlink’s Power Panel Business Edition, but my priority was getting the hdd’s to park/unmount when i lose mains power, which is what the QNAP is letting me do.

coming from mycloud OS, QTS is a whole other world.
 

dosborne

Very Senior Member
Qnap Nas boxes are currently getting hammered with qlocker, qlocker2 and deadbolt ransomware so be **EXTREMELY** careful.

Ensure UPNP is disabled on the NAS.
Do not forward any ports, specifically and most importantly the admin GUI ports.
Ensure you disable remote admin access on the Nas.
FWIW, install the qnap firewall and use the most restrictive settings you can get away with.

Read this thread. You may need to create an account, but extremely important.

The cloud services have been exploited in the past so I would avoid that option at all costs. Use a VPN on your router to connect remotely.

 
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zero7404

Regular Contributor
@dosborne
thanks for this advice, im a member in the qnap forum as well and have been monitoring that myself.
i think i already have all the checkboxes for security-sake. both at the nas and at the router, my lan is guarded well.
concerning cloud and all that happy hoopla that is popular, dont even have a qnap cloud account so i dont use the service. i also dont run apps in general except for those that can serve me within the home’s subnet. EDIT: i don’t rely on any external clouds for data exchange and have no external accounts tied to the nas from the outside.
nothing really that phones home or exchanges/syncs with any kind of external cloud.
i too use my router’s vpn server and only fire up the remote connection when i need to pull a file from the nas when i’m away from home.

figures i’d hear about an attack like this when i just jumped on board the QTS wagon.
 
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sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
"Security Counselor" app is in the QNAP app store - it's not installed by default, but install and run it...

Also, once set up, create a user that has admin, and disable the admin account.

Disable SSH, Telnet on the NAS, you can enable it if needed at the time, and then disable it (most folks don't need shell access in any case)
 

zero7404

Regular Contributor
@sfx2000
one of the first apps i added was security counselor. run security scans occasionally and so far things check out good.

SSH and Telnet are off as well.

i changed the default HTTP port number. although i don't use HTTPS to login, it is enabled and i've not changed the default port for that. for home use i think HTTP is ok and I wouldn't be using HTTPS much so I might disable it.
if i have to go the route of exporting certificates from the NAS and registering them into every browser I use to access QTS from within my LAN that seems overkill to do. but, i do use the vpn server on my router to get into my LAN from mobile sometimes. in those cases should I keep HTTPS available and use it exclusively for remote logins, even though I'd be accessing via Openvpn ?

RT-AX86U running Openvpn server
 

dosborne

Very Senior Member
IMO, HTTPS will do little or nothing for you particularly over a VPN which essentially performs the same function. Using it within your lan is only worthwhile to protect against someone already on the inside :)

So, I wouldn't bother.

On a personal note, I'm happy to report that my old TS-231P accepted a new 18TB drive despite being beyond listed capabilities. Now off to order a second now that I know it works :)
 

zero7404

Regular Contributor
IMO, HTTPS will do little or nothing for you particularly over a VPN which essentially performs the same function. Using it within your lan is only worthwhile to protect against someone already on the inside :)

So, I wouldn't bother.

On a personal note, I'm happy to report that my old TS-231P accepted a new 18TB drive despite being beyond listed capabilities. Now off to order a second now that I know it works :)

what is the manufacturer's cap on drive capacity for the 231 ?
 

dosborne

Very Senior Member
what is the manufacturer's cap on drive capacity for the 231 ?
Pretty sure it was 16TB, but I suspect it was a limit for what was tested, not a limit in a real sense. In any case, the 18TB installed without a hitch and I now have a full backup again, although it took about 2 days (the 231P is a slow box) to push the data. I have a full backup plan for important data in place for many years, but never bothered with my media as most is not worth worrying about. With QLocker and Deadbolt, and drives being relatively inexpensive, and a spare, albeit old and limited, NAS, I figured why not. Makes backing up my TS-563 a lot easier now.
 

Tech Junky

Very Senior Member
OEM NAS usually list whatever is popular at the time of release and not so long ago it was 10TB or less.

If you can physically fit a drive into a NAS though with proper data connections being either SATA / SAS then it should work just fine since they all run Linux FS and don't have issues like Windows used to with drives in excess of 2TB or whatever NTFS / FAT / FAT32 would balk at back in the day.
 

zero7404

Regular Contributor
Pretty sure it was 16TB, but I suspect it was a limit for what was tested, not a limit in a real sense. In any case, the 18TB installed without a hitch and I now have a full backup again, although it took about 2 days (the 231P is a slow box) to push the data. I have a full backup plan for important data in place for many years, but never bothered with my media as most is not worth worrying about. With QLocker and Deadbolt, and drives being relatively inexpensive, and a spare, albeit old and limited, NAS, I figured why not. Makes backing up my TS-563 a lot easier now.
speaking of backups, not sure if you use HBS3 (QNAP’s dish) or another tool ?

i recently ‘deployed’ (in my tiny home network … lol) the TS-453D which is my first take at a QNAP NAS and my second overall NAS coming from WD MyCloud EX2. i used to have the single-bay fisher-price WD MyCloud units but looking back from where i stand today, they don't even register as NAS’s in my mind anymore.

i carefully experimented with HBS3 and decided to reconfigure my backup box from RAID1 to independent, in order to get 2 different mounted volumes on the QNAP, where i can choose to time-stagger my backup jobs, for disaster recovery-sake.

i started out with the backup job option, which contains more than enough functionality to nit pick at backup options and details. it took roughly 16 hours to backup 7tb on a first run. but triggering a 2nd job run after the first was done, i saw that it doesn’t ‘sync’ the content on the backup, it just replaces existing + adds new.
that would create a mess for me in my backup because there is stuff i know i don’t want to keep around so i remove it from the nas and expect the backup to be a mirror of the nas.

that was a slap my forehead moment and i realized i should have run a Sync job instead.

but intersting thing is that the Backup job offers the option to do a data integrity check on the destination after the job completes. that option isn’t available in a Sync job. don’t know why QNAP didn't include it.

since i don’t trust using any connection to the cloud in general for my NAS, i typically block internet access for the NAS at the router level every night. i also block it when i turn on the backup unit and run sync jobs.

in case i somehow get hit with ransomware, my backup data is offline and not visible to the NAS. and hopefully, to get rid of ransomware i could pull the drives, individually format them and pop them back in to rebuild a new array.
 

dosborne

Very Senior Member
OEM NAS usually list whatever is popular at the time of release and not so long ago it was 10TB or less.

If you can physically fit a drive into a NAS though with proper data connections being either SATA / SAS then it should work just fine since they all run Linux FS and don't have issues like Windows used to with drives in excess of 2TB or whatever NTFS / FAT / FAT32 would balk at back in the day.
True for most recent units. My old D-LINKS though are limited to 2TB max. But, there is no obligation by the manufacturer if disk tech changes or other technical reasons for not supporting larger capacity. I.E. I don't take it for granted until I've tested it myself if it is over spec.
 

dosborne

Very Senior Member
speaking of backups, not sure if you use HBS3 (QNAP’s dish) or another tool ?
I use rsync as my automated and manual backup strategy includes 3x D-Link NAS (2x 2TB each), 2x QNAP NAS (50TB and 2x 18TB), 5x Raspberry Pis and a couple other Linux boxes. Rsync allows all of these to interconnect and be in sync, or on a schedule, or on a rotation or on demand either internally across physical drives or across to other physical devices.

My most critical data for example is on a RAID-1 mirror, which hourly syncs to another device and the cloud, which then backs internally as well as up to an alternating mirrored drive on a daily basis, then up to a compressed storage incremental archive, then off to a cycling offline storage. Within 24 hours I have about 5 copies of the data across 4 physical devices. :) (And then there are the offline copies....)
 

zero7404

Regular Contributor
I use rsync as my automated and manual backup strategy includes 3x D-Link NAS (2x 2TB each), 2x QNAP NAS (50TB and 2x 18TB), 5x Raspberry Pis and a couple other Linux boxes. Rsync allows all of these to interconnect and be in sync, or on a schedule, or on a rotation or on demand either internally across physical drives or across to other physical devices.

My most critical data for example is on a RAID-1 mirror, which hourly syncs to another device and the cloud, which then backs internally as well as up to an alternating mirrored drive on a daily basis, then up to a compressed storage incremental archive, then off to a cycling offline storage. Within 24 hours I have about 5 copies of the data across 4 physical devices. :) (And then there are the offline copies....)
that's a fairly complicated setup .... whatever suits your needs i guess if you can manage it all in your head.

i think my old mycloud used to use rsync, that was the backend process it fired up whenever i started a sync job. it's likely hbs3 also uses rsync. don't focus so much on it anymore i have enough confidence in the tool and the integrity of my backups. the added benefits of this particular backup tool like qudedup, versioning, and being able to do a data integrity check afterwards is all good enough for my needs.
 

Tech Junky

Very Senior Member
It's not a backup if both sources go up in flames. Vital data needs an offsite destination or something you keep on your person.
 

zero7404

Regular Contributor
It's not a backup if both sources go up in flames. Vital data needs an offsite destination or something you keep on your person.
i agree. that's where i am weak, i admit.

thinking about a 3rd drive that i can use for data backup and storage in different physical environment.

i don't use any cloud services, don't trust them and would rather pay up front once and buy a suitable storage medium than be hostage to a monthly/yearly fee.
 

Tech Junky

Very Senior Member
i don't use any cloud services
Same here. Well, I use google drive to share stuff but, not the stuff no one else needs access to ever.

Data hoarding though doesn't mean you need ALL of it just a few key files usually suffices and a flash drive or NVME + enclosure (small / discrete) works well for the vital stuff.
 

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