USB Drive for addons reliablity (SLC nand)

bartimeaus

Occasional Visitor
I've read a lot of discussions regarding the use of usb storage when it comes to scripts and entware.

Generally consensus are that standard thumbdrives can be a hit and miss and the recommendations are to use an external SSD for greater reliability and lower heat production.

I've come across usb thumbdrives that have SLC nand. They are small capacity drives ranging from 16gb to 64gb. Would this be a good option?
 

shama_001

Regular Contributor
The SSD will always be the reliable option and giving statistics about thumb drives will put you at risk with any statement :). Never the less I took this way with a Samsung fit plus 64GB. The setup runs for about a month so it won't give you any confidence in the solution.
 

bartimeaus

Occasional Visitor
The SSD will always be the reliable option and giving statistics about thumb drives will put you at risk with any statement :). Never the less I took this way with a Samsung fit plus 64GB. The setup runs for about a month so it won't give you any confidence in the solution.
But it was my understanding that thumbdrives fail because of the nand flash. If a SLC nand USB drive was to be used, should it be even more reliable when compared to say... a TLC Nand SSD?
 

shama_001

Regular Contributor
SLC is always superior in terms of reliability and may be here a solution, I suspect cell management id done differently however (open question). In terms of price vs an SSD is this interesting?
 

Tech9

Part of the Furniture
Would this be a good option?

USB stick/drive on a router is not a good option to begin with. Unfortunately, it's the only available option. Your router becomes as reliable as your USB attached storage. This is why more and more folks use SSD, designed for more frequent read/write operations. USB sticks are designed for storage, infrequent use.
 

bartimeaus

Occasional Visitor
USB stick/drive on a router is not a good option to begin with. Unfortunately, it's the only available option. Your router becomes as reliable as your USB attached storage. This is why more and more folks use SSD, designed for more frequent read/write operations. USB sticks are designed for storage, infrequent use.
Which all boils down the the type of NAND memory use right? Or does the flash controller play a part as well?
 

Tech9

Part of the Furniture

alchemy

Occasional Visitor
Prefer how small these are plugged in to my router, uses MLC *shrugs*
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
While the type of nand used in USB 'thumb' drives may differ, they all share one thing. The lowest quality. Particularly when compared to almost any SSD. As mentioned above, a thumb drive is first and foremost meant to store things for a long time and be used (writing actively), infrequently.

Knowing the above, I would not be looking (or paying) more for an SLC thumb drive for use in an amtm setup.

The cheapest SSD and enclosures (and related circuitry) are miles above any USB (thumb) drive, with regards to reliability, error correction, and dependability.

With a UGreen enclosure and a 256GB SSD, you'll go through many routers before the storage fails when used for amtm scripts. Assuming, of course, that the chipset compatibility isn't an issue with future routers and their wacky USB implementations. ;)
 

thelonelycoder

Part of the Furniture
While the type of nand used in USB 'thumb' drives may differ, they all share one thing. The lowest quality. Particularly when compared to almost any SSD. As mentioned above, a thumb drive is first and foremost meant to store things for a long time and be used (writing actively), infrequently.

Knowing the above, I would not be looking (or paying) more for an SLC thumb drive for use in an amtm setup.

The cheapest SSD and enclosures (and related circuitry) are miles above any USB (thumb) drive, with regards to reliability, error correction, and dependability.

With a UGreen enclosure and a 256GB SSD, you'll go through many routers before the storage fails when used for amtm scripts. Assuming, of course, that the chipset compatibility isn't an issue with future routers and their wacky USB implementations. ;)
This is it, there is no more to add to @L&LD comment.
If your serious with your router and want it reliable, add an SSD instead of a thumbs drive to use for data storage. That includes file sharing as well as amtm scripts that require storage.
 

Tech Junky

Very Senior Member
Did anyone ever ponder that USB + Router is just a cheap way to do things? USB isn't meant to be a full time 24/7 use case. Maybe the router OEM regardless of Asus or anyone else would cough up more resources to be available their products would get better reviews and thus more sales? It's not like RAM chips costs that much at the sizes needed to enable more functionality. If I can get a USB-C 32GB drive that does 150MB/s for under $10 WTF is the issue with putting said chips inside the plastic enclosure? It just doesn't make sense why consumers haven't pushed the makers to put just a little more effort into making a comprehensive solution for their exorbitant prices they charge.

I mean I'm all for hacking something to my will rather than the intended performance out of the box but, this is just dumb. If you're buying a $500 router it should do better than having to put a USB drive into the side of it to run some extra functions.
 

Tech9

Part of the Furniture
Maybe the router OEM regardless of Asus or anyone else would cough up more resources to be available

They want you to buy another router in few years time. You get what's enough for today only.
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
@Tech Junky, every time I've stated my 'wish list' for what a router should be (even years ago, let alone today), I've been laughed off the planet and these forums.

To save you searching, upgradable RAM. An SSD slot. And something with more oomph than the weak ARM processors we're currently (and have always been) getting.

As before, I want Asus to do this (they're doing everything else the most right, today). And if they do, that $1K router purchase will be willing made (even if it comes with just 256MB of RAM, no SSD in the slot, and an 8+ core Intel/AMD CPU that is current in the year of release.

That is the router I want. :)
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
It makes sense if you want a router capable of whatever may come down the road in the next few years.
 

Tech Junky

Very Senior Member
It makes sense if you want a router capable of whatever may come down the road in the next few years.
that $1K router purchase will be willing made (even if it comes with just 256MB of RAM, no SSD in the slot, and an 8+ core Intel/AMD CPU that is current in the year of release.
Why would you limit it to 256MB of RAM? How would you limit to that with a full blown CPU? OS alone likes at least 2GB or scrounge up some swap space on the disk.

I have my setup using Intel / Aquantia (NIC) + AP. It's overkill for a setup only handling routing / switching / firewall though because of the other functions baked into the box. The main use is media / nas and the media side needs the horsepower for processing the files or it just takes forever.

The point of my comment though was consumers keep shelling out hundreds and get a POS black box that is woefully inadequate HW wise. Sure, some are hacking them into more than they should be by using the USB port to extend the services they're able to run but, the price of the parts in bulk might add $50 to the sticker price on the consumer side and less negative feelings about the products. Sure, some people are hyper sensitive about the power draw being the absolute minimum but, others don't really care and want something that just works out of the box and others want it to have some power behind it to push it a bit more.

It's nice though not being constrained by what companies are peddling with meager specs.
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
Obviously, you're not reading the whole post.

Upgradeable RAM means it doesn't matter what it ships with. SSD slot means no more reliance on puny USB attached drives. A real CPU to allow any use the user requires, today, and into the future.

Better than what you have, if it includes the WiFi and Asus support we get today. And when/if third-party support is offered (eg. RMerlin), along with 10GbE ports or better, there would be no comparison.
 

Tech Junky

Very Senior Member
includes the WiFi
If I could get my hands on inventory I could build it into my setup like I did with AC. The issue is AX/E options are limited for some reason. I found some options and ordered them to find out they weren't in stock. I tried a mediatek version and that didn't pan out. I could put 10GE into it or 25/40/100/400GE if there was a need for it.
 

alchemy

Occasional Visitor
This tiny awesome mSATA SSD I'd consider using! 16GB MLC, DRAM Cache, etc. (TS16GMSA370)
Screenshot 2022-10-04 at 11-33-15 Transcend 16GB mSATA SSD SATA3 MLC (TS16GMSA370) Amazon.ca E...png

 

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