What speed internet makes QOS valid?

[BreakingDad]

Right now I have 200/20, so I think QOS is valid. (We have about 50 devices in my family and spend most of our lives online)

I am considering upgrading to either 350/36 or 500/36, will QOS still be relevant at these speeds?

The main issue I am trying to defeat is lag spikes while playing fps games.

For example a spike in overwatch, while someone else is downloading a game update on an xbox.

Thanks

 

[heysoundude]

The first thing to establish is what MTU you should be using on your network for the smoothest interface with your ISP:

should get you in the right neighbourhood
consider the size of the pipes going in and out: while most of the data will be coming down, you'll be more likely to have a traffic jam getting things uploaded, right?
That's where buffers will bloat, much moreso than on the down side, regardless of "speed," but the download side can also get jammed up too at any speed, if there is enough simultaneous demand (like when 3-4 devices are all streaming 4k content), so a wee bit of streamlining is called for there too.

 

[ColinTaylor]

The first thing to establish is what MTU you should be using on your network for the smoothest interface with your ISP:

Doing this is rarely needed nowadays (i.e. the last 20 years). But I suppose it doesn't cost anything to check it for those edge cases.

 

[thiggins]

Give this a watch. It doesn't directly address gaming lag, but shows the effect that band limiting/QoS can have on overall network performance.

And to @heysoundude 's point, the uplink is usually where the choke point is.

Do you have any feel for how high your peak bandwidth demand is? It's unlikely all 50 devices are going full tilt at once.

 

[BreakingDad]

The first thing to establish is what MTU you should be using on your network for the smoothest interface with your ISP:

should get you in the right neighbourhood
consider the size of the pipes going in and out: while most of the data will be coming down, you'll be more likely to have a traffic jam getting things uploaded, right?
That's where buffers will bloat, much moreso than on the down side, regardless of "speed," but the download side can also get jammed up too at any speed, if there is enough simultaneous demand (like when 3-4 devices are all streaming 4k content), so a wee bit of streamlining is called for there too.

I did my MTU yesteday, its 1472 + 28 = 1500 so bang on the router default, nothing to change there.

 

[BreakingDad]

Give this a watch. It doesn't directly address gaming lag, but shows the effect that band limiting/QoS can have on overall network performance.

And to @heysoundude 's point, the uplink is usually where the choke point is.

Do you have any feel for how high your peak bandwidth demand is? It's unlikely all 50 devices are going full tilt at once.

No we don't have 50 devices going at once, a typical scenario would be, I would be playing overwatch with one son, the other son will start downloading on the xbox, and we both ping spike from 35 to anywhere up to 600. My daughter may or may not be on her phone or laptop during this.

I'm wondering now if the poor upload I get from my ISP is of issue, rather than the download.

 

[thiggins]

If you are gaming over WiFi, you will likely get ping spikes, especially if you are using DFS channels. This has nothing to do with your ISP, but it can be due to the router scanning through channels.

 

[Travelor]

I did my MTU yesteday, its 1472 + 28 = 1500 so bang on the router default, nothing to change there.

I'm an Old Tech Guy - When a packet had to walk up hill in the snow both ways just to deliver 1byte. Well maybe not that old.. But I did run a BBS in Grand Rapids Michigan called "Files-R-Us". In any case, I remember that knowing and setting the MTU of your analog modem helped to increase packet accuracy. That is at least how I understood the impact of making MTU changes,. In effect minimizing packet drop and resend messages utilizing more of the 9600 modems huge bandwidth to transfer the FIDOnet messages and boards. Or the darker side of BBSing - Providing access to Megabytes (yes with an M) of ZIPd 3.5 or 5.25 floppy disks. The newest Leisure Suite Larry 16 color exclusive installation, or a leak of a Microsoft Project called Chicafgo, I think, It became "Windows 1". Only 30 disks in that game box and 20 for the Windows. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

Your network MTU is set at 1500, so you're going to test at 1500. From what I understand MTU numbers are specific to the media used for the transmission. Ethernet is 1500, T1 Line or Fiber are going to have differing maximum packet size restrictions. In IPv4 protocol (still the default) routers will handle packet fragmenting in an "as needed" (Layer 3) basis and transmit requests back to client to adjust, but often those message are dropped with firewall rules and other obstacles. Point is that MTU isn't likely gonna do much and feels more like a gimmick but it did score that guy some views on YouTube..

2021 - It's About Time!!

Trav..

 

[heysoundude]

smh - y'all forgot the question was to QoS settings/benefits. MTU gets the OP thinking about overhead. That'll help them determine what's necessary/closer to optimal right from the start.

Yeah, OP (Breaking Dad?), I'm fairly certain your gaming adventures are filling up a not insignificant portion of your (somewhat limited) upload pipe. You'd probably keep everybody happier with a speed change to a more symmetrical connection, if you can find one available to you. consider: faster downloads will make uploads feel slower, even if it's almost doubling that speed over what you have currently. What you should also factor into your equation is a shorter ping...and whether other ISPs offer native IPv6 (and if your network is set up for it)

 

[jmpr]

Right now I have 200/20, so I think QOS is valid. (We have about 50 devices in my family and spend most of our lives online)

I am considering upgrading to either 350/36 or 500/36, will QOS still be relevant at these speeds?

The main issue I am trying to defeat is lag spikes while playing fps games.

For example a spike in overwatch, while someone else is downloading a game update on an xbox.

Thanks

I have 300/300 but have set QOS only to give full and absolute priority to the wifi ATA for VOIP. The rest is less vital.

 

[BreakingDad]

smh - y'all forgot the question was to QoS settings/benefits. MTU gets the OP thinking about overhead. That'll help them determine what's necessary/closer to optimal right from the start.

Yeah, OP (Breaking Dad?), I'm fairly certain your gaming adventures are filling up a not insignificant portion of your (somewhat limited) upload pipe. You'd probably keep everybody happier with a speed change to a more symmetrical connection, if you can find one available to you. consider: faster downloads will make uploads feel slower, even if it's almost doubling that speed over what you have currently. What you should also factor into your equation is a shorter ping...and whether other ISPs offer native IPv6 (and if your network is set up for it)

The IPv6 rollout on my ISP is beginning soon, at some point, if you get my meaning. Considering it is the biggest and considered best broadband provider in the UK it is a little behind the times. In view of this I currently have IPv6 all disabled across the network, but when Richard Branson wakes up I will enable it all. https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.p...-to-fix-20mbps-speed-cap-on-ipv6-tunnels.html

Yes it is BreakingDad, I had to make a new log in as I forgot all the details on my old account and failed to retrieve them.

I just installed flex qos, which I am amazed at how easy that was. Not even a reboot required, just a restart of the qos service via putty. Going to be testing it out today. Looks very cool.

@RMerlin I sent you a small donation as I have used your stuff for years and you deserve it. It's not much, maybe a coffee and cake (I have 3 children to run) but every little helps right, and perhaps others reading this could show their appreciation. (No Eric did not send me cookies to write that)

Once again thank you to everyone for their advice and assistance.

 

[heysoundude]

The IPv6 rollout on my ISP is beginning soon, at some point, if you get my meaning. Considering it is the biggest and considered best broadband provider in the UK it is a little behind the times. In view of this I currently have IPv6 all disabled across the network, but when Richard Branson wakes up I will enable it all. https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.p...-to-fix-20mbps-speed-cap-on-ipv6-tunnels.html

Yes it is BreakingDad, I had to make a new log in as I forgot all the details on my old account and failed to retrieve them.

I just installed flex qos, which I am amazed at how easy that was. Not even a reboot required, just a restart of the qos service via putty. Going to be testing it out today. Looks very cool.

@RMerlin I sent you a small donation as I have used your stuff for years and you deserve it. It's not much (I have 3 children to run) but every little helps right, and perhaps others reading this could show their appreciation. (No Eric did not send me cookies to write that)

Once again thank you to everyone for their advice and assistance.

My ISP isn't fully ipv6 yet either - only DSL customers, probably fibre customers, and I'm not certain where cable customers stand at the moment...
Cake-QoS works on your model router as well, in case you might want to explore another alternative.
Good luck!

 

[BreakingDad]

My ISP isn't fully ipv6 yet either - only DSL customers, probably fibre customers, and I'm not certain where cable customers stand at the moment...
Cake-QoS works on your model router as well, in case you might want to explore another alternative.
Good luck!

Yeah i tried cake, but I think I prefer flex due to the GUI integration. Now I've gotten over my fear of trend micro.