Which wireless access points with clustering for small network?

[the-ninth]

Hi,

I am looking for a recommendation for wireless access points. I want to install 6-10 devices and manage them centrally as a cluster. Our requirements are simple, we want one SSID with WPA2 Personal security. Of course support of more complex configurations may be a plus for the future. Cloud management also would be a nice plus but only if there is local management as fallback.

We looked at the Linksys access points, and ruled them out due to the missing local management. While their Cloud Manager 1.0 worked with local management, their current Cloud Manager 2.0 is cloud-only, with no option of local management.

Our budget is 100-150 Euro per access point.

Regards, Robert

 

[the-ninth]

Have been looking at the Cisco CBW 140AC/240AC, there seems to be some good deals available on them at the moment, bringing even the 240AC into our price range. It seems their clustering function would fullfill our needs. One thing that bothered me is an Amazon review that says the Web UI of the access points is ONLY available via a wireless connection. When looking in the Cisco manuals I did not see this stated explicitly, but whenever they talk about connecting to the Web UI it says you should connect to the Wireless SSID first. Which would again be a showstopper for me, since I am often not on premise and need to be able to manage the access points via VPN.

Can anyone confirm from their experience whether it is possible to access the Web UI from a wired connection on the 140AC/240AC?

 

[Trip]

At the $100-150/AP price point, here are basically all your options (alphabetized)*:
* Embedded = Controller integrated into AP firmware; no need for discrete controller (single point of failure averted, plus multi-master fail-over)
* Discrete = Requires standalone controller instance present on the same subnet; software bare-metal/VM or appliance, or onboard gateway/switch
* "dual control" = local + cloud control ability

• Aruba Instant On
  • Controller: Embedded; local admin via app only (no web); cloud control optional
  • Cloud: Free; full feature parity; dual control
  • APs: AP11 ($80), AP11D ($105)
• Cisco CBW
  • Controller: Embedded; locally web or app admin
  • Cloud: Free for up to 25 nodes (APs, switches, routers) per site; must self-host (AWS, Vultr, etc.); dual control
  • AP(s): CBW140AC, 145AC (wall), 240AC, mesh extenders
• EnGenius EWS/ENH series w/ SkyKey
  • Controller: Discrete; bare-metal Windows or Linux, SkyKey appliance or running on their managed switches; local with cloud optional
  • Cloud: Free; full feature parity; dual control
  • APs: EWS355AP (AC), EWS357AP (AX), ENH-series outdoor models -- AVOID the Cloud-only ECW series
• Grandstream GWN
  • Controller: Embedded; web or cloud manageable (both at same time)
  • Cloud: Free; full feature parity; dual control
  • APs: GWN7600, 7610, 7615, 7630
• Mikrotik (CAPsMAN)
  • Controller: Embedded in RouterOS
  • Cloud: Self-hosted cloud RouterOS VM (via VPN); cloud-only control plane if you do this
  • APs: Multiple, cheap
• Netgear Insight
  • Controller: Embedded; cloud-only
  • Cloud: Paid
  • APs: WAC510 ($100)
• TP-Link Omada
  • Controller: bare-metal, VM on Windows or Linux, Raspberry Pi or OC200 appliance; local, optional cloud as well
  • Cloud: Free; full feature parity; dual control
  • APs: EAP225v3, EAP245, also outdoor models
• Ubiquiti UniFi
  • Controller: bare-metal, VM or Docker on Windows or Linux, Raspberry Pi, CloudKey Gen2 appliance or integrated included onboard a Dream Machine / UDM Pro
  • Cloud: Ubiquiti will host for free, or you can pay to host your own on AWS, Vultr, etc.; if cloud, can't control locally
  • APs: UAP-AC-LITE (AC), UAP-6-LITE (AX), also outdoor models
• Zyxel Nebula
  • Controller: Built into Zyxel Gateway or NXC appliances, or Nebula cloud (not software-installable)
  • Cloud: Free and paid tiers; APs; cloud or local controller, but not both
  • APs: Unified or Unified Pro models, $200+ ea.

Refurb/Working-Pull Enterprise off eBay

• Ruckus Unleashed
  • Controller: Embedded; local or cloud admin via web or app
  • Cloud: Free, optional; dual control possible; can locally administrate by web or app
  • APs: R500/600 ($30-75), R510/610 ($100-200), H510 wall unit ($80-200)
• Aruba Instant
  • Controller: Embedded; local and/or cloud admin via web
  • Cloud: Aruba Central, paid subscription required; dual control; local web admin
  • APs: IAP205/215/225 ($75-200)

 

[Trip]

Of all of those I posted, considering your want for local and cloud control, both vendor-provided, I would actually pivot to EnGenius or TP-Link Omada. I'd consider Ruckus only if you're cool with used/refurb (FWIW, in 100+ used units I've acquired used, I've never had a single DOA *knock on wood*; workmanship and QA/QC is extremely high).

Hope that helps. Any questions, feel free.

 

[the-ninth]

Hi Trip,

Of all of those I posted, considering your want for local and cloud control, both vendor-provided, I would actually pivot to EnGenius or TP-Link Omada. I'd consider Ruckus only if you're cool with used/refurb (FWIW, in 100+ used units I've acquired used, I've never had a single DOA *knock on wood*; workmanship and QA/QC is extremely high).

Great overview, thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail!

Do you maybe have an insight regarding the Ciscos and if their local web admin GUI is reachable from wired connections?

I will look into these options and came back in case of further questions!

Regarding used/refurbished, I checked it, but there seems to be not much available here in Austria, so I think I'd rather go for new devices.

Regards, Robert

 

[the-ninth]

Ubiquiti UniFi

• Controller: bare-metal, VM or Docker on Windows or Linux, Raspberry Pi, CloudKey Gen2 appliance or integrated included onboard a Dream Machine / UDM Pro
• Cloud: Ubiquiti will host for free, or you can pay to host your own on AWS, Vultr, etc.; if cloud, can't control locally
• APs: UAP-AC-LITE (AC), UAP-6-LITE (AX), also outdoor models

After checking out the UniFi devices a bit I like them and their overall offerings. They are a bit cheaper than Linksys and their controller appliance should therefore also fit into our budget. Is there a specific reason why you are mentioning the Gen2 controller? They still sell the Gen1, which is cheaper and should be sufficient for managing the access points?

Regards, Robert

 

[Trip]

Re- Cisco CBW, per the Admin Guide (page 9), initial setup is done via wireless, but you can definitely by wire config after initial setup is completed. Funny enough, I'm receiving a shipment of CBW240AC's today, so I will double-check to see if setup can be done by wire, and confirm back later.

Re- your Austrian market, yes, I would probably just stick to new gear. It's probably the safe bet for your situation, regardless of location.

Re- UniFi, it's decent kit, yes. You just need to make sure you're on a well-reputed UniFi Controller and AP firmware version. Best way to do this is read up on their forums and see which of the release trains is suggested "most stable" at any given time. Hint: it usually isn't the latest sub-version, or even whole-number release. If Ubiquiti has one achilles' heel, it's definitely the continuity of code stability. On that note, if you envision deploying the controller via a CloudKey, I suggest only the Gen2 because the Gen1 was notorious for issues, so best to steer clear.

As I said, though, I would also check out EnGenius and TP-Link. Neither will have as long a support life as Cisco, nor quite the hardware variety of Ubiquiti, but both make compelling alternatives that can be administrated locally and via the cloud, simultaneously, and the cloud piece is completely vendor-provided (as opposed to the self-hosting you'd have to do with Cisco).

 

[Berni]

Hi,

i have a CBW240AC and you can do the initial configuration by wire.
The access point has 2 mac addresses, one for the AP itself (MAC address which is written on the back of the AP) and a second one for the configuration.
Once you figured out the right MAC address / IP address, then you can connect to the AP with wire. Don't forget to add https:// before the IP address.

Best regards Berni

 

[Trip]

After setting up an install with CBW240AC's, I can corroborate with @Berni that yes, you can setup the APs by wire, although it's not as straight-forward as with most other makes/models. As Berni mentioned, the on-label MAC address is AP's physical address, but it has a private management MAC which will pull a separate IP, so I'd make sure you do have DHCP running on the subnet when you first connect the AP to a PoE switch. You'll then have to sniff out the IP that's been assigned to that management MAC ID, and once you do that, you can browse to that IP via https. Confirming exactly what Berni said to be true.

 

[coxhaus]

Trip if you run the Cisco software it will show you the new device and IP. At least the old Cisco software did. I have not setup the new Cisco management software. Oh, it is free for 25 Cisco devices.

 

[Trip]

@coxhaus - Indeed, if you activate the Probe in Business Dashboard (formerly FindIT -- basically the same code with a new paint job), it should show IP details of the admin interface of whatever Cisco RV, SG/CBS or WAP/CBW unit is locally discoverable.

@the-ninth - The Probe is found onboard all CBS250/350 switches, or you can download the code and install on your own (bare-metal or VM), and is free for up to 25 Cisco devices per Probe instance. This may pertain less to you and more to MSPs, but if you have multiple sites, you can link all your Probe installs (one at each site) to the Manager, running at your private DC or a cloud vendor of choice (at AWS, DigitalOcean, Vultr, etc.). Pretty good functionality, although you must self-host the Manager piece. This differs from vendors who provide the cloud environment as a turn-key SaaS solution, handling the hosting and management for you (examples: EnGenius, Grandstream, Netgear, TP-Link, Ubiquiti, Zyxel; Aruba and Ruckus on the enterprise side), albeit it's their ballpark (their bat, their balls, their rules) on that front. If that does sound appealing, I'd explore one of the example brands I mentioned as a CBW alternative.

 

[the-ninth]

Hi Trip,

Thanks again for the additional information. I now also checked out EnGenius and TP-Link Omada. I really like the offering of EnGenius, but they seem to be a notch too expensive for our budget. Omada is attractively priced, but their product portfolio is not as extensive. At the moment Ubiquiti UniFi looks like the best option for us, great portfolio (their mesh/extenders could be handy for our use case) and affordable prices. So I ordered a Gen2 controller, a switch and two APs for further evaluation. In the end reading stuff on the Internet takes you only so far, there is no replacement for hands-on.

Regards, Robert

 

[Trip]

@the-ninth - Indeed, Robert. I concur; hands-on if often the only real way to finally "know". Do post back with results once you've built out your first deployment.

 

[the-ninth]

@the-ninthDo post back with results once you've built out your first deployment.

Will do!

 

[the-ninth]

Did now a few tests with the UniFi setup, with a Cloud Key Gen2, a USW-FLEX-MINI switch and two UAP-AC-LR access points. Compared to Linksys it feels like a different, much more advanced world.

In terms of functionality, even the cheaper UniFi access points offer more, namely mesh functionality, fast roaming and an included PoE power supply, which makes mounting easier, having to route only one cable to the access point. The user interface of the Cloud Key is as easy to use as the Linksys Cloud Manager, but much more powerful. The managed switch integrates quite nicely.

I for sure now prefer the UniFi local controller with cloud integration versus the choices Linksys offers, namely either an obsolete local cluster limited to devices of the same type, or cloud-only. Especially with Linksys being unclear about future support of existing devices and currently having no integration of routers or managed switches.

I really regret now having invested into a Linksys router and new switches a year ago, I was simply not aware that much better solutions exist.

Next I will install the two access points in their target environment and have users use them for a week or two, to gather some information on range and stability.

 

[Trip]

@the-ninth - Robert, nice update. Depending on client density and performance requirements, the LR's may be enough. If users report "slowness" or "low bars", then you may have to move to a tighter layout of lower-power/lower-range APs (AC-LITE/NanoHD/FlexHD), to deliver more airtime/fronthaul and lower-dB signal (especially in 5Ghz) per unit area.