Wireless log help with AX-6000 - Radar sensitive channels, passive

[Strobolt]

Could someone help me understand that what difference do the "Radar sensitive" and "Radar sensitive passive" have in wireless log for 5 GHz?

I'm trying to figure out if I can use DFS channels as the neighbours don't seem to utilise those.

I see from the log that I've gotten a DFS hit 48 hours ago (when I had it set as 100) but I was wondering that can I interpret something from certain channels being "passive" in the log?

Log:
noise: -96 dBm Channel: 6l
BSSID: 08:BF:B8:53:41:28 Capability: ESS ShortSlot RRM
Beacon Interval: 100 msecs
Supported Rates: [ 1(b) 2(b) 5.5(b) 6 9 11(b) 12 18 24 36 48 54 ]
HE Capable:
Chanspec: 2.4GHz channel 8 40MHz (0x1808)
Primary channel: 6
HT Capabilities: 40Mhz SGI20 SGI40
Supported HT MCS : 0-32
Supported VHT MCS:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
Supported HE MCS:
20/40/80 MHz:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
QBSS Channel Utilization: 0x3d (23 %)

Interference Level: Acceptable
Mode : AP Only

Stations List
----------------------------------------
idx MAC Associated Authorized RSSI PHY PSM SGI STBC MUBF NSS BW Tx rate Rx rate Connect Time
80:EA:23:54:7A:52 Yes -59dBm n No Yes Yes No 2 20M 260M 0M 00:00:00
A4:A4:90:9A:40:50 Yes Yes -71dBm ax No Yes Yes Yes 2 20M 114.7M 172.1M 00:02:21
20:28:BC:BE:56:06 Yes Yes -67dBm n Yes Yes Yes No 2 20M 144.4M 1M 00:04:56
34:7E:5C:82:AA:EC Yes Yes -47dBm n No No No No 2 20M 130M 1M 53:00:16

SSID:
noise: -91 dBm Channel: 52/160
BSSID: 08:BF:B8:53:41:2C Capability: ESS RRM
Beacon Interval: 100 msecs
Supported Rates: [ 6(b) 9 12(b) 18 24(b) 36 48 54 ]
HE Capable:
Chanspec: 5GHz channel 50 160MHz (0xec32)
Primary channel: 52
HT Capabilities: 40Mhz SGI20 SGI40
Supported HT MCS : 0-31
Supported VHT MCS:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
Supported HE MCS:
20/40/80 MHz:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
160 MHz:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
QBSS Channel Utilization: 0x1a (10 %)

Interference Level: Acceptable
Mode : AP Only

DFS status: state In-Service Monitoring(ISM) time elapsed 174467400ms radar channel cleared by DFS channel 52/160 (0xEC32)

Channel Information
----------------------------------------
Channel 36 A Band
Channel 40 A Band
Channel 44 A Band
Channel 48 A Band
Channel 52 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 56 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 60 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 64 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 100 A Band, RADAR Sensitive, Passive
Channel 104 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 108 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 112 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 116 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 120 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 124 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 128 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 132 A Band, RADAR Sensitive, Passive
Channel 136 A Band, RADAR Sensitive, Passive
Channel 140 A Band, RADAR Sensitive, Passive

Stations List
----------------------------------------
idx MAC Associated Authorized RSSI PHY PSM SGI STBC MUBF NSS BW Tx rate Rx rate Connect Time
70:2A5:58:FB6 Yes Yes -67dBm ac Yes Yes Yes No 2 80M 390M 6M 00:07:04
B8:E9:37:8C:67:8A Yes Yes -71dBm a No No No No 1 20M 54M 12M 01:40:23
34:7E:5C:FF:6E:2C Yes Yes -55dBm a No No No No 1 20M 54M 24M 11:33:27
54:3A6:42:E2:40 Yes Yes -74dBm ac No Yes Yes Yes 1 80M 234M 263.2M 20:15:59
8A:F2:70:34:83C Yes Yes -75dBm ac Yes Yes Yes Yes 1 80M 325M 6M 47:30:41
34:7E:5C:FF:6E:2E Yes Yes -72dBm a No No No No 1 20M 54M 24M 48:41:10
B8:E9:37:8E7:C0 Yes Yes -66dBm a No No No No 1 20M 54M 24M 51:37:22

 

[OzarkEdge]

Could someone help me understand that what difference do the "Radar sensitive" and "Radar sensitive passive" have in wireless log for 5 GHz?

I'm trying to figure out if I can use DFS channels as the neighbours don't seem to utilise those.

I see from the log that I've gotten a DFS hit 48 hours ago (when I had it set as 100) but I was wondering that can I interpret something from certain channels being "passive" in the log?

Log:
noise: -96 dBm Channel: 6l
BSSID: 08:BF:B8:53:41:28 Capability: ESS ShortSlot RRM
Beacon Interval: 100 msecs
Supported Rates: [ 1(b) 2(b) 5.5(b) 6 9 11(b) 12 18 24 36 48 54 ]
HE Capable:
Chanspec: 2.4GHz channel 8 40MHz (0x1808)
Primary channel: 6
HT Capabilities: 40Mhz SGI20 SGI40
Supported HT MCS : 0-32
Supported VHT MCS:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
Supported HE MCS:
20/40/80 MHz:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
QBSS Channel Utilization: 0x3d (23 %)

Interference Level: Acceptable
Mode : AP Only

Stations List
----------------------------------------
idx MAC Associated Authorized RSSI PHY PSM SGI STBC MUBF NSS BW Tx rate Rx rate Connect Time
80:EA:23:54:7A:52 Yes -59dBm n No Yes Yes No 2 20M 260M 0M 00:00:00
A4:A4:90:9A:40:50 Yes Yes -71dBm ax No Yes Yes Yes 2 20M 114.7M 172.1M 00:02:21
20:28:BC:BE:56:06 Yes Yes -67dBm n Yes Yes Yes No 2 20M 144.4M 1M 00:04:56
34:7E:5C:82:AA:EC Yes Yes -47dBm n No No No No 2 20M 130M 1M 53:00:16

SSID:
noise: -91 dBm Channel: 52/160
BSSID: 08:BF:B8:53:41:2C Capability: ESS RRM
Beacon Interval: 100 msecs
Supported Rates: [ 6(b) 9 12(b) 18 24(b) 36 48 54 ]
HE Capable:
Chanspec: 5GHz channel 50 160MHz (0xec32)
Primary channel: 52
HT Capabilities: 40Mhz SGI20 SGI40
Supported HT MCS : 0-31
Supported VHT MCS:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
Supported HE MCS:
20/40/80 MHz:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
160 MHz:
NSS1 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS2 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS3 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
NSS4 Tx: 0-11 Rx: 0-11
QBSS Channel Utilization: 0x1a (10 %)

Interference Level: Acceptable
Mode : AP Only

DFS status: state In-Service Monitoring(ISM) time elapsed 174467400ms radar channel cleared by DFS channel 52/160 (0xEC32)

Channel Information
----------------------------------------
Channel 36 A Band
Channel 40 A Band
Channel 44 A Band
Channel 48 A Band
Channel 52 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 56 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 60 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 64 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 100 A Band, RADAR Sensitive, Passive
Channel 104 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 108 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 112 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 116 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 120 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 124 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 128 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 132 A Band, RADAR Sensitive, Passive
Channel 136 A Band, RADAR Sensitive, Passive
Channel 140 A Band, RADAR Sensitive, Passive

Stations List
----------------------------------------
idx MAC Associated Authorized RSSI PHY PSM SGI STBC MUBF NSS BW Tx rate Rx rate Connect Time
70:2A5:58:FB6 Yes Yes -67dBm ac Yes Yes Yes No 2 80M 390M 6M 00:07:04
B8:E9:37:8C:67:8A Yes Yes -71dBm a No No No No 1 20M 54M 12M 01:40:23
34:7E:5C:FF:6E:2C Yes Yes -55dBm a No No No No 1 20M 54M 24M 11:33:27
54:3A6:42:E2:40 Yes Yes -74dBm ac No Yes Yes Yes 1 80M 234M 263.2M 20:15:59
8A:F2:70:34:83C Yes Yes -75dBm ac Yes Yes Yes Yes 1 80M 325M 6M 47:30:41
34:7E:5C:FF:6E:2E Yes Yes -72dBm a No No No No 1 20M 54M 24M 48:41:10
B8:E9:37:8E7:C0 Yes Yes -66dBm a No No No No 1 20M 54M 24M 51:37:22

I don't think it matters knowing... your premise is to find a DFS channel you can use, but you are actually searching for a DFS control channel you can use... the router needs to append 3 or 7 more neighboring channels to get 80 or 160MHz bandwidth... it must use more RF spectrum than just the control channel frequencies. So, looking at your list of channels, the max bandwidth you would want (80 or 160MHz) will most likely span both 'passive' and not 'passive' channels in your list. Plus, they are all marked 'sensitive'.

(Some clients may not see a DFS control channel. If you have any, you would want to use a non-DFS control channel in the band next to the DFS channels so that they can connect at 80MHz max bandwidth while a 160MHz client can still try to use an additional 80MHz bandwidth in the DFS band.)

So, given your DFS hit... you may not be able to use DFS channels reliably in your location. I can here, but I don't need it AND I have determined that my AiMesh wireless backhaul is actually slower (lower link rate) at 160MHz than it is at 80Mhz bandwidth... most likely due to the lower transmit power at 160MHz compared to 80MHz. If my wired backhaul fails, I want my wireless backhaul to turn ON and serve as fast as possible... it does at 80MHz (1000mW max Tx power), no lower power DFS band required (250mW max Tx power).

OE

 

[Strobolt]

I don't think it matters knowing... your premise is to find a DFS channel you can use, but you are actually searching for a DFS control channel you can use... the router needs to append 3 or 7 more neighboring channels to get 80 or 160MHz bandwidth... it must use more RF spectrum than just the control channel frequencies. So, looking at your list of channels, the max bandwidth you would want (80 or 160MHz) will most likely span both 'passive' and not 'passive' channels in your list. Plus, they are all marked 'sensitive'.

Yeah, good point, in my case I'd be spanning across both with 160 MHz and don't have enough "passive" channels for even 80 MHz.

About the control channel: is it so that it appends always channels "around" it or is the router able to decide if the channels "above" or "below" are more optimal? This would then dictate whether I should go for 48 or 36 as control channel I guess.

Interesting point about the transmit power at 160 MHz. I wasn't aware of such a drawback. Is it lowering the transmit power of all connections or just the clients that connect with 160 MHz? I had it enable just because, why not? I'm not exactly congested with airtime here with only two neighbours.

 

[OzarkEdge]

About the control channel: is it so that it appends always channels "around" it or is the router able to decide if the channels "above" or "below" are more optimal?

See the graphics in my notes... they may not be up-to-latest regulations for the FCC/US Region, but they show how the frequency spectrum is used for various bandwidths.

This would then dictate whether I should go for 48 or 36 as control channel I guess.

Nope, either one will put 80MHz in band 1.

Interesting point about the transmit power at 160 MHz. I wasn't aware of such a drawback. Is it lowering the transmit power of all connections or just the clients that connect with 160 MHz? I had it enable just because, why not? I'm not exactly congested with airtime here with only two neighbours.

Devices can not exceed Tx power limits by law, which can vary for the different frequency bands/groups used in your region.

Given your DFS hit, I'd set 80MHz bandwidth max and Auto control channel excluding DFS channels, and monitor what non-DFS control channel the router settles on over time. Then set/fix that control channel to keep it there... to 'own it'. If your clients are stable, then done.

OE

 

[Strobolt]

See the graphics in my notes... they may not be up-to-latest regulations for the FCC/US Region, but they show how the frequency spectrum is used for various bandwidths.

Devices can not exceed Tx power limits by law, which can vary for the different frequency bands/groups used in your region.

Given your DFS hit, I'd set 80MHz bandwidth max and Auto control channel excluding DFS channels, and monitor what non-DFS control channel the router settles on over time. Then set/fix that control channel to keep it there... to 'own it'. If your clients are stable, then done.

OE

Seems that I've been now 3 days on 52 without DFS hits. If I understand the graphs correctly, if I'm able to use that as control channel then I'm just as good off using 80 MHz or 160 MHz since the 160 goes to non-DFS and shares the same DFS with 80. Well, barring tx power limitations. Is there a way to see my Tx power to see if I'm able to transmit with higher power in 80 MHz? Or just deduce it from signal strength of a 160 MHz client when switching router between the two in ap settings?

 

[OzarkEdge]

Seems that I've been now 3 days on 52 without DFS hits. If I understand the graphs correctly, if I'm able to use that as control channel then I'm just as good off using 80 MHz or 160 MHz since the 160 goes to non-DFS and shares the same DFS with 80.

Channel 36 A Band
Channel 40 A Band
Channel 44 A Band
Channel 48 A Band
Channel 52 A Band, RADAR Sensitive (control channel)
Channel 56 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 60 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 64 A Band, RADAR Sensitive

If the graphic applies to your region, 80MHz bandwidth will use frequencies from channel 52 through channel 64 (all DFS); and 160MHz will use channels 36 through 64 (half DFS). Try 160MHz and wait for a DFS event to boot you back to 80MHz and channels 36-48, presumably... we can't be sure of the router's fallback setting until we see it, but we know it must vacate DFS bands by law.

Well, barring tx power limitations. Is there a way to see my Tx power to see if I'm able to transmit with higher power in 80 MHz? Or just deduce it from signal strength of a 160 MHz client when switching router between the two in ap settings?

You can roughly monitor wireless client link rates (may change when traffic is idle) in the Wireless Log... you may notice a difference when using 160 vs 80. When I tested, my client was an AiMesh node... a strong wireless client with NSS 3... 3 antennas on each end of the connection... 3 streams. The typical mobile client will have NSS 1 or 2. I suspect you will see a link rate difference with 160MHz being the weaker connection. You could also perform a speedtest.net. Test a couple times to get a general idea.

OE

 

[Strobolt]

Channel 36 A Band
Channel 40 A Band
Channel 44 A Band
Channel 48 A Band
Channel 52 A Band, RADAR Sensitive (control channel)
Channel 56 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 60 A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 64 A Band, RADAR Sensitive

If the graphic applies to your region, 80MHz bandwidth will use frequencies from channel 52 through channel 64 (all DFS); and 160MHz will use channels 36 through 64 (half DFS). Try 160MHz and wait for a DFS event to boot you back to 80MHz and channels 36-48, presumably... we can't be sure of the router's fallback setting until we see it, but we know it must vacate DFS bands by law.

Well, as it happens, I just got a DFS event on 60 and got kicked to 48 control channel from 56. Trying 124 next.

You can roughly monitor wireless client link rates (may change when traffic is idle) in the Wireless Log... you may notice a difference when using 160 vs 80. When I tested, my client was an AiMesh node... a strong wireless client with NSS 3... 3 antennas on each end of the connection... 3 streams. The typical mobile client will have NSS 1 or 2. I suspect you will see a link rate difference with 160MHz being the weaker connection. You could also perform a speedtest.net. Test a couple times to get a general idea.

Maybe my question was worded a bit badly. I was wondering if the setting for 160 MHz would have an impact on 80 MHz clients. I'm using Asus PCE-AC88 4x4 AC wifi adapter on desktop computer which is on the second floor and opposite side of the apartment from the wifi ap and was wondering if the Tx power to that client might be affected by just enabling the 160 MHz setting. I only got 180 MHz on mobile clients (phone and laptop) currently. But for them the 180 MHz is basically useless so might as well disable it I guess.

As a side note, I noticed that doing speedtest I'm getting less than half DL speed compared to UL (~200 Mbps vs. +500 Mbps). Not sure if this has got something to do with other issues I've been having with the router lately not allowing clients to connect or if I've just messed up some settings on the router. Probably better to just reset to factory settings...

 

[OzarkEdge]

Maybe my question was worded a bit badly. I was wondering if the setting for 160 MHz would have an impact on 80 MHz clients.

To be sure, test it... set 80MHz max and check the Wireless Log to see how well clients connect. Then try 160MHz max to see how well the same 80MHz clients connect. Test first with a non-DFS control channel so that the 80MHz clients stay in the non-DFS band; then with a DFS control channel so that they stay in the DFS band... assuming that makes sense and is worth the trouble... I'm a bit tired right now!

OE