Your thoughts about QNAP TS-109 II

[Cino]

I'm at the point where DVD backups for my photos,mp3 is taken too much of my time. I'm thinking of using the TS-109 II to house all my photos,mp3 while providing a place to backup my xp pcs and my Win2003 server. I run coppermine on my 2003 server with a couple of other php websites, which i may move to the TS-109.

I like to tinker with everything I get and Qnap product line seems the best for that with a good forum to help you out.

Other then the price of the unit, is there anything wrong about this unit compare to the others on the market?

I'll most likely be using using the following services on the box: ftp, SMB, media server, http/mysql. To backup the NAS drive, I was thinking of adding either a usb2 or an esata drive to the unit. I know I could purchase the TS-209 have use RAID 1 but that's not a real backup. I'll only attach the external drive when I want to backup the nas and keep it powered off when its not needed.

thanks,

Cino

 

[msloane]

QNAP TS-109 Pro II

Hi, Cino....

I'm new here myself, and it looks like you're asking pretty much the same questions I was about to ask -- except that I'm looking at the TS-109 Pro II, the next model up the line.

(I'm recovering from being *almost* badly burned by a terrible D-Link DNS-323 experience -- avoid it like the plague!)

I'd like to add a couple more QNAP 109 series questions, if there are any QNAP experts out there....

1) Is there an option to spin down the disk after an idle time interval? (I downloaded & searched through the manual, didn't see anything about it...perhaps an "undocumented feature?")

2) Of the recommended 1TB drives, which one(s) are considered the "best"? Conversely, are there any drives to avoid?

3) I share your RAID1 feelings, Cino...so -- in practical terms -- what's considered the best way to do a backup of the QNAP to an external drive? USB 2.0? eSATA? Network?

All advice welcome...and thanks in advance....

--Michael

 

[thiggins]

1) Is there an option to spin down the disk after an idle time interval? (I downloaded & searched through the manual, didn't see anything about it...perhaps an "undocumented feature?")

Check the "Hardware Settings" page. Yes, all the Qnaps have a idle disk spindown setting.

2) Of the recommended 1TB drives, which one(s) are considered the "best"? Conversely, are there any drives to avoid?

Sorry, I have no advice on this.

3) I share your RAID1 feelings, Cino...so -- in practical terms -- what's considered the best way to do a backup of the QNAP to an external drive? USB 2.0? eSATA? Network?

Network (assuming a gigabit LAN and target NAS) or eSATA will be the fastest. I strongly recommend using the scheduled backup feature with a disk that is always connected and preferably in a different physical location. That would tip the decision to networked backup.

 

[thiggins]

If you like to tinker, you should also look at the Synology NASes. The DS107+ is the closest in feature set and performance.

 

[msloane]

Thanks, Tim....

Thanks for the info, Tim.

I should have mentioned that I'll be using this NAS to store my 20,000+ MP3s, along with several thousand digital pictures.

iTunes serving (to a networked Macbook Pro and Windows XP laptop) is a must, and I also want my PS3 to be able to get in on the media fun.

I looked at the DS107+...seemed to me (both from your review and others) that the Twonky media player in the QNAP is more robust for the sort of thing I'm trying to do.

It's kinda important to me that *whatever* I get becomes fairly functional shortly after it comes out-of-the-box (and the disk gets installed). I'm by no means a networking guru...I know just enough to be dangerous.

For this reason, I also put a premium on decent tech support -- after my Kafkaesque D-Link tech support nightmares, I've promised myself to never again deal with a product that uses *untrained* overseas tech support. I'll certainly never buy another D-Link product again....

 

[thiggins]

You might also want to look at the NETGEAR ReadyNAS Duo.

 

[msloane]

Netgear ReadyNAS Duo

Back when I was *convinced* that 2-drive RAID1 backup was the way to go, I considered the Netgear...I'm just not that convinced anymore. That's why I've been looking at single-drive solutuons....

...now that I'm *convinced* that a single-drive NAS with external drive backup is the way to go.

Having gotten into this a bit more, I can't think of a reason NOT to go for the QNAP TS-109 Pro II...unless there's something I'm missing....

 

[Osamede]

The backup functions is defective and inadequate on the QNAP 109 and 209 series. The methd that works is beyond slow and the others basically broken and cannot be relied on.

So I would avoid them at all costs. I had a 209 Pro and sold it for this reason.

There are a lot of complaints about this on their forum. And they dont care basically. What it comes down to is inadequate hardware and bad firmware. Maybe the latter can be fixed but the former not.

Amazingly, you dont see this issue (backup) addressed in all the so-called "review" websites.

 

[thiggins]

Those are some pretty broad statements. Do you have some specific links to QNAP forum threads that back them up?

How do you know that they don't care?

I can't speak for other websites, but we haven't tested external backup speed because of the time it takes to do the other testing that we already do. It might be something that we have to add to the list, however.

I found this post, that seems to offer an explanation for the problem.

 

[Osamede]

I am a former QNAP 209 "Pro" owner and a member of their forums. So I speak from experience. Its an issue that pertains to both USB and LAN based backup. Basically once the data is on the device, you have a hard time backing it up, if you have large amounts of data, because the speed is slow or not at all.

Backup is a pretty serious function, as you obviosuly know. By the nature of what a NAS is for, if your data cant be reliably and speedily backed up, you are just begging for trouble.

As for QNAP I know they dont care because I have raised the issue on their forums and the nature of their response is pretty telling. t some point the product needs to meet the claims made by the seller. A NAS isnt a throwaway $150 mobile phone where the fashion matters more than the performance over the long term. It does need to be more reliable than that.

I am not fingering any review website in particular for not reviewing backup performance, but I dont think people like QNAP would have gotten away with this is it was normal practice to thoroughly examine it.

The duty of alerting to these problems is therefore left to people who actually buy the products and encounter the problems. So its rather unfair if reviewers dont address the issue, then cast doubt on actual users who raise the issue. Especially as I said, where the nature of the product means that its long term performance is what counts.

So that is why I raise the issue - so that a prospective buyer can know what they are getting into. But me personally, I would advise anyone not to buy those lower end QNAPs if they need a significant amount of data backed up. The only way to do that reliable if you own these devices would be to back up the data to the backup device from the source, in parrallel to when it is put on the QNAP. But if you find yourself needed to backup 1TB or even half that amount when it is already on the device, then you are gonna be livign dangerously indeed.

 

[thiggins]

The duty of alerting to these problems is therefore left to people who actually buy the products and encounter the problems. So its rather unfair if reviewers dont address the issue, then cast doubt on actual users who raise the issue.

If asking someone to back up broad statements with facts is "casting doubt" on that person, then I plead guilty.

If you would like me to put you in direct contact with someone at QNAP, I would be happy to do so.

 

[msloane]

The obvious question this begs is, if not a QNAP single-disk NAS product (or Synology or Thecus or Iomega, etc.), then what's the best solution for someone who wants to be able to efficiently (read quickly) backup NAS data to external storage?

I had completely dismissed the idea of home-brewing something, but I may be coming back around...after reading Tim's recent comparison of the MSI Wind and VIA ARTiGO A2000, it certainly got me thinking....

...matter of fact, but for the lack of eSATA ports (and the fact that they're 2-drive boxes, not 1), they're almost perfect -- I can even envision using one internal drive for network data storage, and the second internal drive exclusively for backing up client PC drives through the network.

Of course, with no eSATA port, that leaves me to externally back up the network storage drive via USB...but the gist I get from the article is that it'll go a lot faster than anything I can buy off-the-shelf.

 

[thiggins]

It will also go faster if you format the external drive as ext2/3

 

[Osamede]

If asking someone to back up broad statements with facts is "casting doubt" on that person, then I plead guilty.

If you would like me to put you in direct contact with someone at QNAP, I would be happy to do so.

Why would I need you to put me in touch with anyone? I was on their forums when I owned their product and they were clearly not that interested in me or the others who have brought up the issue. The basic answer has been "jam tomorrow".

Besides, if they really cared, they would modify the product rather than continue to sell it as is.

In any case I dont own their product anymore - with good reason.

But I dont appreciate this approach. Its just not necessary. I havent questioned your reviewing methods - I would appreciate you dont question my report of experience as a paying customer. Its not becoming at all.

But as-is, people shouldnt expect to hook up an NTFS drive to this thing and expect to back it up with the ease that the seller implies.

 

[msloane]

Without getting in the middle of this, I'll only add that I tried to get a straight answer from someone at QNAP -- I had been in contact previously with a guy named Albert Lin, and I sent him a note a couple weeks ago wherein I asked:

It's my intention, on a weekly basis, to backup/clone the TS-109 Pro II's 1.5TB Seagate ST31500341AS drive to an eSATA drive, equipped with an identical Seagate drive.

Almost immediately, I will have nearly a terabyte of media files on the drive, and my question is simply this: Assuming that I will use the TS-109's included backup software and methods, approximately how long will it take to backup/clone 1TB of data (file sizes ranging from +/-500K to +/-15MB) from the TS-109 to the eSATA drive?

I'm not looking for an EXACT number -- I'm just trying to figure out if I can reasonably expect that if I start a backup overnight, it will finish within 8-10 hours.

It would be impractical for me to make this purchase if it will take more than 10-12 hours to perform such a backup.

Any information or guidance you can provide will be most helpful and very much appreciated.​

Suffice to say, I never got a response...and that silence is why I'm done with QNAP, having been saved the trouble and expense of an unhappy purchase.

Sometimes silence speaks loudest.

 

[archivalbackup]

Just thought I would drop in with a bit of experience. I recently purchased a 109-II pro and a 509 pro.

I have noticed that the 109-II P is a bit on the underpowered side, as running my nightly backup jobs to it will peg out the CPU at 100%. Still, I can get a real-world backup of 30-37MB/s over home-grade network gear w/ jumbo frames.

The 509 has been a bit problematic, and I think it is due to both a bad drive and seagate drive firmware bug; however, my experience with their tech support has been better than any other I have dealt with. They have really done a good job of helping me out and even recovering a broken volume so I could backup the data.