Zenwifi XT8 wired backhaul

Shadowflake

Occasional Visitor
Dear all,

Enclosed you can find a small drawing of my setup at home.
I have installed the ASUS zenwifi XT8 system with a wireless backhaul.

Now i would like to install a wired backhaul between the both nodes through powerline adapters.
I connected the UTP cable on both nodes to the WAN connector.
From the router XT8 i have connected a cable from the LAN port to a switch.

In this configuration the system doesn't work.
The second node LED starts to flash blue and this never stops.
The router node Led becomes RED.

Is it possible in my case to make a wired backhaul through powerline adapters?


Thanks for the feedback
 

Attachments

Tommy Grace

Regular Contributor
Hi, unless i have misunderstood the setup, i think the managed switch is causing the backhaul not to work as intended. From what i can see, you don't have the ZenWi-Fi router and node connected via powerline directly but via the switch. Don't think this will work. Have you tried putting the Zenwifi node in front of the switch temporarily to see if the backhaul works?
 

Shadowflake

Occasional Visitor
Hi, unless i have misunderstood the setup, i think the managed switch is causing the backhaul not to work as intended. From what i can see, you don't have the ZenWi-Fi router and node connected via powerline directly but via the switch. Don't think this will work. Have you tried putting the Zenwifi node in front of the switch temporarily to see if the backhaul works?
Yes i did already try this.
I connected the powerline direct to the WAN port of the Zen router node.
Afterwards i connected a Lan port of the Zen to the router.

This didn't work :(
 

Tommy Grace

Regular Contributor
Yes i did already try this.
I connected the powerline direct to the WAN port of the Zen router node.
Afterwards i connected a Lan port of the Zen to the router.

This didn't work :(
Hang on, just re-read this. I think it is because you are using the WAN port to connect the powerline to the ISP modem. I wouldn't expect that to work as the backhaul will only work via the LAN ports i would have thought. Is there any way you can test using the LAN port of the router?
 

Shadowflake

Occasional Visitor
Hang on, just re-read this. I think it is because you are using the WAN port to connect the powerline to the ISP modem. I wouldn't expect that to work as the backhaul will only work via the LAN ports i would have thought. Is there any way you can test using the LAN port of the router?
Hey i have uploaded a picture of the asus manual.
According to this picture the powerline needs to be connected to the Wan.

Later today i will try what you have suggested.
 

Attachments

Tommy Grace

Regular Contributor
Hey i have uploaded a picture of the asus manual.
According to this picture the powerline needs to be connected to the Wan.

Later today i will try what you have suggested.
Sorry, i thought the router was the node and vice versa. It confused me that the node 1 was plugged into the powerline by the modem but i get it now.
 

OzarkEdge

Part of the Furniture
Dear all,

Enclosed you can find a small drawing of my setup at home.
I have installed the ASUS zenwifi XT8 system with a wireless backhaul.

Now i would like to install a wired backhaul between the both nodes through powerline adapters.
I connected the UTP cable on both nodes to the WAN connector.
From the router XT8 i have connected a cable from the LAN port to a switch.

In this configuration the system doesn't work.
The second node LED starts to flash blue and this never stops.
The router node Led becomes RED.

Is it possible in my case to make a wired backhaul through powerline adapters?


Thanks for the feedback
Connect the AiMesh root node (in AP Mode) WAN to the ISP router LAN.
Connect the AiMesh remote node WAN to the AiMesh root node LAN.

Use whatever Ethernet links you want but be prepared to troubleshoot any issues introduced by intervening switches and Powerline adapters. Set each AiMesh backhaul connection priority to wired/Ethernet to force a wired backhaul when the intervening switch/link defeats AiMesh auto detection of backhaul type.

When using an ISP router as the network router, AiMesh is essentially a multi-node mesh AP wired to the ISP router. Revise your network diagram! :)

OE
 
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Shadowflake

Occasional Visitor
Connect the AiMesh root node (in AP Mode) WAN to the ISP router LAN.
Connect the AiMesh remote node WAN to the AiMesh root node LAN.

Use whatever Ethernet links you want but be prepared to troubleshoot any issues introduced by intervening switches and Powerline adapters. Set each AiMesh backhaul connection priority to wired/Ethernet to force a wired backhaul when the intervening switch/link defeats AiMesh auto detection of backhaul type.

When using an ISP router as the network router, AiMesh is essentially a multi-node mesh AP wired to the ISP router. Revise your network diagram! :)

OE
Hey so in the way you describe it both node will function as an AP.
That should work :)
 

OzarkEdge

Part of the Furniture
Hey so in the way you describe it both node will function as an AP.
That should work :)
Yes, if the network router is not an AiMesh router, then AiMesh simply becomes a wired AP mesh subsystem. You have to set the root node to AP Mode and wire it up root node LAN <> remote node WAN, like the Asus doc shows.

You also now have to manage both the ISP router and the AiMesh root node.

OE
 

RogerSC

Part of the Furniture
I'd recommend looking at using MoCA 2.0 or 2.5 instead of powerline networking for your "hard wired" backhaul. I have an RT-AX88U with an XT8 configured and connected as an AP at the other end of my house, using MoCA 2.0. With gigabit internet I get full speed for wired connections at the XT8, and about 750 - 800Mbps wireless-AX at the XT8 on a ThinkPad with an Intel AX200 wi-fi adapter. RMerlin firmware on the AX88U, and Asus firmware on the XT8.

If I were using a powerline connection, it would be a lot less than that, I haven't been able to get a powerline networking connection to go faster than 150Mbps across my house.

I'm very happy with this, it has been totally stable, and gives me a lot more of the gigabit fiber bandwidth that I'm paying for *smile*.
 

Shadowflake

Occasional Visitor
I'd recommend looking at using MoCA 2.0 or 2.5 instead of powerline networking for your "hard wired" backhaul. I have an RT-AX88U with an XT8 configured and connected as an AP at the other end of my house, using MoCA 2.0. With gigabit internet I get full speed for wired connections at the XT8, and about 750 - 800Mbps wireless-AX at the XT8 on a ThinkPad with an Intel AX200 wi-fi adapter. RMerlin firmware on the AX88U, and Asus firmware on the XT8.

If I were using a powerline connection, it would be a lot less than that, I haven't been able to get a powerline networking connection to go faster than 150Mbps across my house.

I'm very happy with this, it has been totally stable, and gives me a lot more of the gigabit fiber bandwidth that I'm paying for *smile*.
Dear,
You're answer is very intresting.
I found the website of Moca but it is not all clear to me.
Could you explain what is Moca 2.0 or 2.5 and how does this work?
 

krkaufman

Senior Member
Could you explain what is Moca 2.0 or 2.5 and how does this work?
The practical question is whether you have a coax outlet available in your Office, or some other location where you might install your mesh satellite for similar effect?

Because ... MoCA == Multimedia Over Coaxial Alliance ... basically networking via coax ... so nearly identical to what you're trying to do with Powerline but via coax. A typical setup would require a MoCA adapter at the modem/router location to bridge between the shared coax plant and the router's LAN, plus remote MoCA adapter(s) in any rooms where you want a wired network connection via MoCA.

The 2.0 and 2.5 just refer to the advancing specs of MoCA, with the later specs offering increasing throughput. (You should ignore older, slower MoCA 1.1 gear given your intent; and you'll probably just want to jump right to MoCA 2.5 for maximum throughput/value.)

MoCA 1.1 ... up to 170 Mbps
Standard MoCA 2.0 ... up to 400 Mbps (500 Mbps in TURBO/peer setup)
Bonded MoCA 2.0 ... up to 800 Mbps (1000 Mbps in TURBO/peer setup)
MoCA 2.5 ... up to 2000 Mbps (2500 Mbps in peer setup); though limited by the adapter's GigE port, the 2.5 spec allows for full-duplex GigE connections.

You'll likely also find that the goCoax MoCA 2.5 adapters can be had for the same or less than you can find bonded MoCA 2.0 adapters.

edit: p.s. See >here< for a listing of some available MoCA adapters, grouped by spec/throughput.
 
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krkaufman

Senior Member
Could you explain what is Moca ... and how does this work?
FWIW, a *sample* MoCA setup diagram ...

1603046187447.png
... noting that you'd require just one remote MoCA adapter (2 total) if you only have the one wireless AP to get wired for your backhaul.
And see the following for some alternative (example!) configurations for the modem & main MoCA adapter setup, depending on what's available.

Addl alternatives for how to wire your central components, depending on coax runs available and whether your modem needs protection from MoCA signals. The preferable configuration (as described above by @degrub) would be having separate coax runs for the modem and main bridging MoCA adapter, to eliminate any concerns of conflict between MoCA and the modem or DOCSIS 3.1.

View attachment 26978 View attachment 26979 View attachment 26981 View attachment 26980
 

Shadowflake

Occasional Visitor
The practical question is whether you have a coax outlet available in your Office, or some other location where you might install your mesh satellite for similar effect?

Because ... MoCA == Multimedia Over Coaxial Alliance ... basically networking via coax ... so nearly identical to what you're trying to do with Powerline but via coax. A typical setup would require a MoCA adapter at the modem/router location to bridge between the shared coax plant and the router's LAN, plus remote MoCA adapter(s) in any rooms where you want a wired network connection via MoCA.

The 2.0 and 2.5 just refer to the advancing specs of MoCA, with the later specs offering increasing throughput. (You should ignore older, slower MoCA 1.1 gear given your intent; and you'll probably just want to jump right to MoCA 2.5 for maximum throughput/value.)

MoCA 1.1 ... up to 170 Mbps
Standard MoCA 2.0 ... up to 400 Mbps (500 Mbps in TURBO/peer setup)
Bonded MoCA 2.0 ... up to 800 Mbps (1000 Mbps in TURBO/peer setup)
MoCA 2.5 ... up to 2000 Mbps (2500 Mbps in peer setup); though limited by the adapter's GigE port, the 2.5 spec allows for full-duplex GigE connections.

You'll likely also find that the goCoax MoCA 2.5 adapters can be had for the same or less than you can find bonded MoCA 2.0 adapters.

edit: p.s. See >here< for a listing of some available MoCA adapters, grouped by spec/throughput.
Thanks for the feedback didn t know that this existed. I have coax in some rooms. I Will keep this in mind for the Future.
 

krkaufman

Senior Member
Thanks for the feedback didn t know that this existed. I have coax in some rooms. I Will keep this in mind for the Future.
(p.s. MoCA is much faster and more reliable than Powerline, so I'd recommend it well ahead of experimenting with Powerline ... if/when the coax is available.)
 

Shadowflake

Occasional Visitor
I checked i have coax in all the rooms were i want wired internet. Can you give me advice what moca 2.5 adapter you recommend? I would like to try this.
 

krkaufman

Senior Member
I checked i have coax in all the rooms were i want wired internet.
You'd only need MoCA for those locations where you don't have GigE availability (and at the main modem/router location).

Do you know how the rooms interconnect via coax, with each other and the incoming cable signal, and through what component(s)? Posting model info for the connecting components (splitters, etc.) would allow for review of their MoCA compatibility.

Basic cable splitters (5-1002 MHz) can allow for MoCA connectivity; however, powered amplifiers can be problematic to MoCA signal transmission, and MoCA 2.5 uses much more bandwidth (broader frequency range) than the early MoCA 1.0/1.1 spec (up to 500 MHz vs 50 MHz) , and so can benefit from ensuring the connecting components are specifically spec'd for MoCA 2.0 (such as the Holland GHS-PRO-M series).



Can you give me advice what moca 2.5 adapter you recommend?
Tough to recommend anything other than the goCoax 2.5 model, given its price relative to others.

p.s. See >here< for a listing of some available MoCA adapters, grouped by spec/throughput.
 
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Shadowflake

Occasional Visitor
You'd only need MoCA for those locations where you don't have GigE availability (and at the main modem/router location).

Do you know how the rooms interconnect via coax, with each other and the incoming cable signal, and through what component(s)? Posting model info for the connecting components (splitters, etc.) would allow for review of their MoCA compatibility.

Basic cable splitters (5-1002 MHz) can allow for MoCA connectivity; however, powered amplifiers can be problematic to MoCA signal transmission, and MoCA 2.5 uses much more bandwidth (broader frequency range) than the early MoCA 1.0/1.1 spec (up to 500 MHz vs 50 MHz) , and so can benefit from ensuring the connecting components are specifically spec'd for MoCA 2.0 (such as the Holland GHS-PRO-M series).




Tough to recommend anything other than the goCoax 2.5 model, given its price relative to others.

Hey,

This is really intresting.
Below you can find 3 pictures.
2 pictures are from the coax splitter at my home.
  1. Can you tell me if this is moca compatible ?
  2. What kind of connector is this on the splitter (is this a F-type coax connection ?)
coax 001.jpg

coax 002.jpg

On the last picture you will see a basic coax socket at my home.
What type of connection are these ?
  1. I'm asking this because if would go for this solution than i will probably by pre fabricated cables.
coax 003.jpg
 

krkaufman

Senior Member
  1. Can you tell me if this is moca compatible ?
  2. What kind of connector is this on the splitter (is this a F-type coax connection ?)
I can't tell you much about that "NIU" unit, since I can't find any specs for it (just a few translated forum pages), other than saying that it appears to be a powered amplifier ... and I am pretty confident that it isn't an amp that is "designed for MoCA," so you likely wouldn't have an ideal setup were it to be a central component in passing your MoCA signals.

My question Re: this amp is ... you say that you're not using port 2, because you have a VDSL Internet connection. Are you using the other ports (3-5) for TV service, and so they need to remain connected to this amp? Is the coax line that run to the Office location currently in use for TV(?), such that it needs to remain connected to the amp?

Also, which of the rooms in your OP diagram correspond to the rooms 1, 2 & 3 coax lines (lines 3-5) annotated on the amp image? For that matter, where does the "CM" line (line 2) connect in the house, the VDSL modem/router location?

Also, my impression is that this isn't an install within the US, so I'm also unfamiliar with what frequencies would be in use by your provider for Internet/TV/phone service, and whether the available retail MoCA adapters would still be compatible. (MoCA adapters operate between 1125-1675 MHz.)

A typical approach in your situation would be to just give it a try and see if MoCA can function through the amp; then troubleshoot, if not. This approach would involve installing a "PoE" MoCA filter on the amp's RF input (to secure the MoCA signals inside the home), then installing a main MoCA/Ethernet bridging MoCA adapter wherever it can be connected to the shared coax plant *and* the Ethernet LAN established by the router (typically at the modem/router location, but this isn't mandatory). You'd then install one or more "client" MoCA adapters wherever you were looking to add wired network connectivity, providing coax connections back to the shared coax plant. Such as the following:

amp fingers-crossed.png


If you found that the amplifier blocked MoCA connectivity, you could then try establishing a smaller MoCA network, perhaps using a 2-way splitter hanging off one of the DS output ports to connect two of your coax lines off a single amplifier output -- but with a MoCA filter on this splitter's input. This MoCA filter placement would keep the MoCA signals from ever reaching the amplifier, but would limit the MoCA network to just the two coax lines hanging off the 2-way splitter. (Your original need, to provide the Zenwifi units a wired backhaul, would seem to be met if a simple high-bandwidth MoCA connection could be made just between the Living Room and Office.) This workaround to avoid the amp could look something like the following, though you'd be the judge of which lines to employ:

amp workaround.png
Of course, this last setup could be simplified further if the coax lines are not in use at all, at present, allowing you to simply disconnect the two needed lines from the amplifier and join them using a 3 GHz barrel connector ... making a direct coax connection between the two adapters.
 
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krkaufman

Senior Member
On the last picture you will see a basic coax socket at my home.
What type of connection are these ?
I've no clue, would need to research, and it again makes me wonder where this install is occurring. Initial research has me concerned that your wall plates are doing more than simply providing a physical connection to the coax line, posing a potential issue for MoCA connectivity.

e.g.
 

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