Crazy Question? Merlin FW or Official Asus-WRT?

[jegesq]

I hope no one takes any offense (or if you're Canadian, "offence") at this question -- most especially-- Merlin, but here goes:

What features and additions does the latest Merlin FW have that are not also now included in the latest official Asus-WRT firmware?

I know that historically, and still Merlin implemented and continues to implement new features that were not previously included in the stock firmware (e.g., OpenVPN, better log device ID, security fixes, etc), and his versions generally cleaned up bugs sooner and quicker than Asus would get around to them (and I presume that's still the case, with the latest example being the most recent January disclosure of a security hole that was fixed by Merlin in 375.49_5 about a week sooner than Asus got around to it). And we are all grateful and thankful for all of the work done and which continues to be done by Merlin, including me.

But lately I've been asking myself what particular advantages there are in using Merlin's software as opposed to the official versions once the bugs have been plugged and those features I'm interested in that Merlin added have been moved into the official versions, as many have been.

For example, if I'm using the official Asus-WRT 3.0.0.4.376.3754 on my AC66U, what features and bug fixes would I not get or have access to via the GUI that would be available or that are implemented in Merlin's 376.49_5?

I confess that it's been so long since I actually used any of the official versions, that I really now have no idea what the basic differences are at this point, and even looking around at the various changelogs as Merlin implements newer iterations doesn't fully explain which of his changes and improvements Asus has picked up and which they haven't, and of course, the only changelog that Asus uses is just the notes on the support site with each version of firmware offered for download which is not nearly as detailed as Merlin's own notes (usually).

Anyway, I don't know where else or how else to frame this question, so there it is. Again, this is certainly not intended to be a criticism of either Merlin or the official firmware either, just that it's hard to really know what's different at this point once a router reaches a certain "maturity" and features...well, they pretty much stop being "new" and just become part of what one expects to see when they open up the GUI.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any answers and guidance anyone can provide. (And please don't tell me to read the Merlin FW manual, because I have...if you can point to specifics, that would be great though).

Thanks again for your time.

 

[System Error Message]

both asus stock and merlin firmware tend to include each other's changes at times however merlin firmware still keeps more features than stock while retaining stock features and performance. merlin firmware uses stock asus firmware with a more additions and fixes.

For specifics just check his website, he has a page with a general list of differences or features he adds which asus doesnt add to stock.

 

[jegesq]

both asus stock and merlin firmware tend to include each other's changes at times however merlin firmware still keeps more features than stock while retaining stock features and performance. merlin firmware uses stock asus firmware with a more additions and fixes.

For specifics just check his website, he has a page with a general list of differences or features he adds which asus doesnt add to stock.

Yes, I've done that. Maybe I'm just not seeing it. If you can provide a link and cite to any sections of a particular page that I'm not seeing, it would be greatly appreciated.

If you're referring to this: https://github.com/RMerl/asuswrt-merlin/wiki/Features, that's a pretty generic description of some differences that existed I am guessing as of the date that page was added and edited by Merlin (Nov 2014); but it really doesn't explain the particular changes/features as of the present day as specifically as the question I posed, which is directed only to the changes on the AC66U (that page does contain some caveats at the top, including that it's a generalized list not applicable to all versions of FW and to all devices based on particular limitations of some devices. So the answer that I'm actually seeking is to this specific question, and perhaps I should have just been clearer about what I was asking:

...if I'm using the official Asus-WRT 3.0.0.4.376.3754 on my AC66U, what features and bug fixes would I not get or have access to via the GUI that would be available or that are implemented in Merlin's 376.49_5?

.

Sorry for the confusion, but my question was not intended to be general (although I led off with a rather generalized preamble, so to speak). I am really interested in the AC66U's and what the differences are between Official and Merlin as of today.

Thanks for the input and helping me re-focus the question. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[microchip]

Yes, I've done that. Maybe I'm just not seeing it. If you can provide a link and cite to any sections of a particular page that I'm not seeing, it would be greatly appreciated.

If you're referring to this: https://github.com/RMerl/asuswrt-merlin/wiki/Features, that's a pretty generic description of some differences that existed I am guessing as of the date that page was added and edited by Merlin (Nov 2014); but it really doesn't explain the particular changes/features as of the present day as specifically as the question I posed, which is directed only to the changes on the AC66U (that page does contain some caveats at the top, including that it's a generalized list not applicable to all versions of FW and to all devices based on particular limitations of some devices. So the answer that I'm actually seeking is to this specific question, and perhaps I should have just been clearer about what I was asking:

.

Sorry for the confusion, but my question was not intended to be general (although I led off with a rather generalized preamble, so to speak). I am really interested in the AC66U's and what the differences are between Official and Merlin as of today.

Thanks for the input and helping me re-focus the question. Sorry for any confusion.

I'm not a heavy user of all firmware features. I most often require the basics, i.e. no VPN, minidlna, SSH, etc.

So, the most obvious change compared to ASUS stock *for me* is the addition of the "Tools" page which displays some system stats (among others temps, RAM usage and connected devices to ports).

For others stuff, wait for someone else to reply that uses them

For bug fixes, you'd mostly likely need to inspect the changelog of a Merlin release

 

[jegesq]

I'm not a heavy user of all firmware features. I most often require the basics, i.e. no VPN, minidlna, SSH, etc.

So, the most obvious change compared to ASUS stock *for me* is the addition of the "Tools" page which displays some system stats (among others temps, RAM usage and connected devices to ports).

For others stuff, wait for someone else to reply that uses them

For bug fixes, you'd mostly likely need to inspect the changelog of a Merlin release

Thanks. I thought RAM usage though was now included in the official versions, but it's located on the "status" portion of the Network Map page (the page which first defaults to open when you log into the router). I don't remember, but are you sure the radio temps are not included in the official FW version? Not home now, but I'll look later to check. I Haven't noticed the "connected devices to ports" on the tools page, but I'll look again as well.

Thanks again. Any others?

 

[RogerSC]

Also, RMerlin tends to fix bugs faster than Asus does (going along with the fact that Asus takes some of his bug fixes and features). So the latest version of RMerlin's firmware tends to be more stable and up-to-date than Asus's.

 

[microchip]

Thanks. I thought RAM usage though was now included in the official versions, but it's located on the "status" portion of the Network Map page (the page which first defaults to open when you log into the router). I don't remember, but are you sure the radio temps are not included in the official FW version? Not home now, but I'll look later to check. I Haven't noticed the "connected devices to ports" on the tools page, but I'll look again as well.

Thanks again. Any others?

Yes, RAM usage is included since some versions back in the official firmware of ASUS. But it wasn't for a very long time. The "connected devices" is at the very bottom of the "Tools" page.

I am "sure" radio temps are not included in the official firmware. I used to run it a few days back because I needed to try out something while being in contact with ASUS support. I did not see anywhere where the official FW shows the radio temps. If I am at fault, others can correct me

 

[jegesq]

Also, RMerlin tends to fix bugs faster than Asus does (going along with the fact that Asus takes some of his bug fixes and features). So the latest version of RMerlin's firmware tends to be more stable and up-to-date than Asus's.

Thanks for the reply Roger but I think I'm asking something different than the question you've answsered.

I'm certainly aware that RMerlin tends to fix bugs faster than Asus and this generally leads to stabilizing that which may not be stable in Asus's firmware. That's why I mentioned that in my general preamble in my first post, i.e., because that's not really what my question is about, and I intended to exclude it as the primary consideration in soliciting answers.

My inquiry is actually focused instead on the specifics at this particular point in time, i.e., what are the current specific differences between Merlin's 376.49_5 and the most current official Asus-WRT 3.0.0.4.376.3754? What's missing from the official that is in Merlin (or vice versa).....and to make the question answerable other than in a general sense, I asked about a specific device (since there are slight variations from device to device as even Merlin acknowledges on his list of "features" page at Github linked above). I limited my question to the AC66U....but if anyone wants to use the AC68U, or the AC87U, or any other device in answering, I'm fine with that.

So really, I'm not asking "in general why do people prefer Merlin's FW?" or "Why does Merlin address firmware bugs and fixes faster than Asus?"

What I'm really asking is if, for example, on a router that's been out now for close to two years (such as the AC66U), as to which over that time most every feature that can or will be added to it has already been added by now, there are any substantive differences found in Merlin's 376.49_5 (the most current FW) and the official Asus-WRT 3.0.0.4.376.3754?

I thank you for your response Roger. Any additional help with gaining a better understanding of the question I'm interested in will be appreciated.

 

[jegesq]

Yes, RAM usage is included since some versions back in the official firmware of ASUS. But it wasn't for a very long time. The "connected devices" is at the very bottom of the "Tools" page.

Thanks for that. But the fact that these Merlin features were eventually added to the official FW is why I am now asking the question. RAM usage is one of those features that Merlin first implemented in the GUI, but now it's very prominently featured in the official FW. This sort of highlights that over the close to two year period that the router has been out and Merlin has implemented changes, the router's own official firmware has also been maturing as well. So all I'm really asking is this: What are the present differences between the two. As specifically as anyone can answer (and I suspect that Merlin is probably the best source of info, which is why I posted this in this sub-forum).

Simply put, aside from radio temps (and I assume you're correct that it's not in the official versions at this time), what else is different between the two firmwares when used on an identical device?

 

[john9527]

For me, there are two main differentiators...

(1) The Merlin code is more up to date on the supporting open source components vs Asus...things like miniupnpd, minidlna, etc. There was just a post on a problem someone was having with Plex Media Server on Asus code that was fixed last year by Merlin picking up a new component that Asus hadn't (their version is actually 2 yrs old).

(2) The scripting capability that Merlin added for many of the events/functions so you are not limited to the gui/base functions. I just looked, and I make use of 9 scripts and configs options to tweak things the way I want. For example, using openvpn-event to implement selective routing for my VPN client, or dnsmasq.postconf to set up a persistent dhcp leases file. I could probably live without some of these, but it's much better to be able to have things the way I want.

 

[jegesq]

For me, there are two main differentiators...

(1) The Merlin code is more up to date on the supporting open source components vs Asus...things like miniupnpd, minidlna, etc. There was just a post on a problem someone was having with Plex Media Server on Asus code that was fixed last year by Merlin picking up a new component that Asus hadn't (their version is actually 2 yrs old).

(2) The scripting capability that Merlin added for many of the events/functions so you are not limited to the gui/base functions. I just looked, and I make use of 9 scripts and configs options to tweak things the way I want. For example, using openvpn-event to implement selective routing for my VPN client, or dnsmasq.postconf to set up a persistent dhcp leases file. I could probably live without some of these, but it's much better to be able to have things the way I want.

Fair enough John, and I appreciate what you're saying and that you've explained it in terms of your own uses, and in particular your own fork and particular uses of some advanced features.

But if I'm just your average consumer, who never ventures into SSH/Telnet, isn't interested or knowledgeable about VPN or setting up chron jobs in a command line, and am not interested in modifying the firmware to tweak something that doesn't otherwise affect a feature I'm not using like a Plex server, or XMBC/Kodiak/Uelec, etc., are there any differences in the way the code gets executed that will affect my use of the router?

For example, when you say that Merlin's code is "more up to date on the supporting open source components vs Asus...things like miniupnpd, minidlna" does this mean that I'll see any actual improvement with minidlna today if I use 376.49_5 as opposed to using the most current official Asus-WRT 3.0.0.4.376.3754?

Here's what I'm getting at, I suppose: Let's take the list of features on Merlin's GitHub "features" page, just for a start. Which of these are NOT also implemented yet in the most current official Asus-WRT 3.0.0.4.376.3754?

And in listing these, I'm going to leave out the generalized ones like "bug fixes" and such:

System:

•Persistent JFFS partition
•User scripts that run on specific events
•Cron jobs
•Ability to customize the config files used by the router services
•LED control - put your Dark Knight in Stealth Mode by turning off all LEDs
•Entware easy setup script (alternative to Optware - the two are mutually exclusive)
•SNMP support

Disk sharing:
•Optionally use shorter share names (folder name only)
•Disk spindown after user-configurable inactivity timeout
•NFS sharing (through webui)
•Entware easy setup script (alternative to Optware - the two are mutually exclusive)

Networking:
•Force acting as a Master Browser
•Act as a WINS server
•SSHD
•Allows tweaking TCP/UDP connection tracking timeouts
•CIFS client support (for mounting remote SMB share on the router)
•Layer7 iptables matching
•User-defined options for WAN DHCP queries (required by some ISPs)
•Improved NAT loopback (based on code from phuzi0n from the DD-WRT forums)
•Advanced OpenVPN client and server support (all models except RT-N16)
•Netfilter ipset module, for efficient blacklist implementation
•Wireless site survey
•Configurable IPv6 firewall
•Configurable min/max UPNP ports
•IPSec kernel support
•DNS-based Filtering, can be applied globally or per client

Web interface:
•Improved client list, with DHCP hostnames
•Optionally save traffic stats to disk (USB or JFFS partition)
•Enhanced traffic monitoring: added monthly, as well as per IP monitoring
•Name field on the DHCP reservation list and Wireless ACL list
•System info summary page
•Wireless client IP and hostname on the Wireless Log page
•Wifi icon reports the state of both radios
•Display the Ethernet port states
•The various MAC/IP selection pulldowns will also display hostnames when possible instead of just NetBIOS names
•Wireless site survey

I'm sure there are some of these features which aren't implemented in the official Asus-WRT version for any given device, but for the life of me, I can't find this information listed anywhere.

So there's the question: Which of the above-listed features aren't yet in the officlal versions of firmware? And conversely, what's in the official versions that isn't in Merlin (if anything)?

Again John, I appreciate the feedback, and please keep up the good work on your fork; I've tried it and it works well for me in my environment and with my devices.

 

[jerry6]

FOR One I can turn off the lights with Merlin (a big plus with the media bridge in the bedroom ), it' s updated more often , I just like it , it has always worked well on my routers

 

[Deleted member 27741]

Many of the features that Asus-wrt now contains are because Merlin did it first. To some degree, I think using his firmware and supporting him financially is a thank you for all the great features that are in rmerlin firmware AND Asus-wrt now. Asus-wrt has been catching up, but it is pretty much rmerlin you have to thank. I realize you asked for a more feature-driven answer, but I think this is important to consider.

 

[System Error Message]

I just remembered that merlin firmware for MIPS adds features like Entware that lets you install packages from openwrt and other features that puts it in between a feature packed firmware like openWRT and the performance and ease of use of the stock firmware.

Merlin does fix things faster than ASUS and ASUS do borrow some fixes from merlin and vice versa.

 

[Mistermoonlight]

Hi

I don't have exactly the answer you want to hear about difference between the asus current firmware with current merlin release, but here my 2 cents.

For an advanced user, merlin firmware is a dream come true. It is the best of both world: being near the original manufacturer firmware, with annoying bugs sorted out faster. With a degree of customization coming nearer to custom firmware.

I switch to a merlin firm like few weeks after i got the rtn-66u router a couple of year ago because of too much limitations/bugs in my opinion in the default asus firmware and gui.

In my opinion, the basic asus firmware gui weakness is that it was very limited in options and in configuration features. I have used other brand name like linksys, trendnet, dlink router and all of them generally have better gui and user friendly design. For an example, if you enter a rule in many web configuration page, you cannot edit it / neither disabling it without erasing it and replacing it with a new one (for firewall rules, this is very annoying if you are using a lot of them). Most other manufacturers allow this everywhere in their gui. But this router hardware design is the most reliable i ever have, fast, no voip latency problem i got with other routers, i never got a crash and being up for months with a merlin firm (it is down only when i power it off myself for any other reason) in my case (important if you are running a server and want to be online 100%). I am never getting a wireless lost of connection problem neither on 2.4g/5ghz, no matter how many devices i have on the netwok (sometimes dozen). This is far better for example than my cheapo trendnet who was crashing in such cases (device overheat problem, lost of connection, etc).

The customization merlin adds to the firmware allowed me to do some router configuration (using some scripts, etc), i was not able to do with the gui alone because of the bugs (like setting parental control on and trying to add some customs firewall rules was not working correctly both at the same at that time, so quickly i had to revert to merlin customization feature to do the job under the hood avoiding the gui for complicated things...

For me the conclusion is that there is no drawback using merlin firm, only benefit. If this firmware would not exist, probably i had trade the router for another brand a long time ago because of all the limitations and annoyance in the asus gui configuration.

 

[Mistermoonlight]

Here are some features possible i like in the merlin firm at that time (that i could not deal with asus firm when i got the unit):

1- i am using parental control a lot and also using firewal rules that are changing often. I have to deal with firewall rules in a firewall script (only available on merlin firm at that time) to make it work as expected cause it was impossible (buggy) with parental control active (both features were not compatible together in the gui).

2- I am using openvpn client on all my devices to safe surf externally from home, doing this connected through 2 openvpn servers (only available on merlin firm at that time) on the router. Asus was not offering openvpn at that time (i don't know the status now). This is perfectly reliable and safe. This also allows to bypass many network limitation your office admin could have been set.

3- At home, a simple feature as configuring the unused wireless auto setup button to control wireless enable/disable quickly is one merlin feature (i don't know if asus firm has it now) i used a lot to disable wireless as i wish for guess networks at night, etc.

4- Configuring a safe networking for childs using opendns is another need that requiered me some firewall rules i could not do correctly with stock firmware because of the parental control bug (again merlin firm saved my life with a custom script feature).

5- Bandwidth Statistics were much more better with merlin firm, in fact i have a deep analysis of the stats stored on an usb key hooked to the router since the moment merlin firm was installed and i am very happy to use this history to compare each devices on my network bandwidth usage and see if something goes wrong.

There are probably a lot more features from merlin firm that "saved my router lifes" (that i forgot), the reason why after more than 2 years, i am still an happy camper

 

[greg50]

dnsfilter is also a really great feature for example.

 

[RMerlin]

So there's the question: Which of the above-listed features aren't yet in the officlal versions of firmware?

All of the above.

This list is specifically what IS different or added. And when Asus implements one of these (or a variant of it) into the stock firmware, I either remove it from the list, or move it to a separate section listing what used to be on that list, and is now available on stock firmware, as seen on the website:

http://asuswrt.lostrealm.ca/features

As for what is missing in Asuswrt-Merlin versus stock firmware: nothing. I don't remove anything (unless the ability to do an automatic check for new firmware releases is something you'd consider worthy of being mentionned).

One exception might be that I don't enable OpenVPN support on the RT-N16. I think Asus did, after they implemented OpenVPN support into the stock firmware. I didn't change my mind and left it disabled for that model, because with only 32 KB of nvram, filling up nvram and causing a complete loss of configuration due to stored key/certs is just too risky. Also, I consider the RT-N16 as a "legacy" device, for which I consider my support to be limited at this time.

 

[jegesq]

All of the above.

This list is specifically what IS different or added. And when Asus implements one of these (or a variant of it) into the stock firmware, I either remove it from the list, or move it to a separate section listing what used to be on that list, and is now available on stock firmware, as seen on the website:

http://asuswrt.lostrealm.ca/features

As for what is missing in Asuswrt-Merlin versus stock firmware: nothing. I don't remove anything (unless the ability to do an automatic check for new firmware releases is something you'd consider worthy of being mentionned).

Thank you so much for your response. It makes perfectly clear now what the differences are between the two. If I haven't already said thank you for the great work you've done, let me say it again: Thank you.

That list is slightly different than the list of features listed at your GitHub site (https://github.com/RMerl/asuswrt-merlin/wiki/Features). I neglected to look at the newer, redesigned/unified site's "features" page, which I now see is much clearer about what's in the firmware, what's different from what's in the Asus original, and what's been changed by Asus and included from your builds into their's. If I'd seen that page, I probably wouldn't have even posted the question in the first place. Still it's given me and a lot of others a reason to talk about some of the great changes and improvements you've added over the years.

Again, I really do want to thank you again for the clarification and the link to the new firmware site, and again express that we are all indebted to you for everything you've done, and hopefully will continue to do for many years to come.

 

[RogerSC]

Thanks for the reply Roger but I think I'm asking something different than the question you've answsered.

Yes, I realize(d) that. For me, equally important to features is the speed of getting bugs and security problems fixed; i.e. features that work. Real-time support is a big plus for me, and can be a deciding factor in my choices. Router features that don't work because of bugs are of no use to me. My reply was meant to point that out.

I'm glad that you appreciate that as well.